Film photog bashes digital - DPChallenge Forums

11/26/2004 12:04:44 AM · #51

And stuck in a time warp
This is the reason younger people are better to hire for jobs - they are more keen to learn and evolve and are more up to date with technology having a fresh view on the world and are not stuck down by one way to do things.

Not saying that all you oldies on this site are stuck in a time warp but for sure this guy is

11/26/2004 12:08:40 AM · #52

Long time film lover here (ILOVE digital to!!!)

i don't wan't to remind u of something that may be painful to think on BUT.......

and i quote a chicago policeman here "a digital image is not leagle or for that matter an image in the cort of law"

there i said it now i don't want to cause and anger or agression here but it is true since there is (if done by a pro. digital image maker or just) right there is nothing to prove that the image came from a live situation or not. Where as film u have a neg. an exact copie of what the sceen was at the time it was captured.

True to film can be minuplated but it can always be found through some kind of proscedure or another.

film has a neg., digital has a string of data all 10101010s(not in that order but u get the point).

sorry i lov my digital camera and think that digitalis the bomb but there's nothing i can do about it....

except never mention it again. :0

Sorry once more _brando_

11/26/2004 12:13:08 AM · #53

This guy just uses jargon to confuse the possible client - throwing out all this 30 year old terms and technology to make it sound like he is the best way to go - come on what a load of crap

Professional digital photography is worth the cost cause the picture can be changed as the client wishes - also they can recieve instant feedback after the photo is taken and prepare for reshoots on the spot if needed

Also the digital photographer cost is higher cause of the specialized equipment needed as explained earlier in the thread - im betting his using 30 year old equiptment charging as much as a digital photographer and looking at his photos. they look like snapshoots you take with a cheap $50 camera

11/26/2004 12:15:09 AM · #54

Originally posted by fotodude:

and i quote a chicago policeman here "a digital image is not leagle or for that matter an image in the cort of law"

I'm not sure this is true...

11/26/2004 12:16:43 AM · #55

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by fotodude:

and i quote a chicago policeman here "a digital image is not leagle or for that matter an image in the cort of law"

I'm not sure this is true...

me neither you can manipulate negatives as well - have you seen the ufo hoxes and stuff which were around before digital was even a word

11/26/2004 12:21:53 AM · #56

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

sorry man but film is still fastly superior to digital.

on a ruff scale
highest film camera takes at 14.5MP or something like that.

film>asa-800=8mb of data
asa-400=16mb " "
asa-200=32mb " "
asa-100=64MB " "
asa-64=128MB " "-----I don't know about u but the last time i chacked the lowest Dell laptop 1 can buy comes with 2 128MB sticks of RAM. and 1 shot at w/asa 64 film takes up half of that laptops RAM.........

My point is made

Note:the scale is rough and I LOVE DIGITAL but i'm just stating that some times what seems old can actualy be better in quality than the new.

take any oldschool thing and pitt aginst a newfangled gismo and it will prove more reliable 70% of the time (stistics by my experience)

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/26/2004 12:34:01 AM · #57

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by fotodude:

and i quote a chicago policeman here "a digital image is not leagle or for that matter an image in the cort of law"

I'm not sure this is true...

me neither you can manipulate negatives as well - have you seen the ufo hoxes and stuff which were around before digital was even a word

honest to God

i work at wolf camera and all the police force buys from us is film, polariod,etc. so i asked the cheif (note i live in a suburbe of chicago he is the chief of our local police force under cook county authority)
those were his exact words.
the police force can not bring a digital image to in front of a judge since it can be aulterd to esaly.

We also develope negs. for the police department and we get all film we have never had an officer (other than for presional use) walk up and use a picunit to send digital "mugshot" pics. through for prosses in our lab.

i know lie

Note also:the force does have a darkroom the just send negs. to us when the are over loaded.

_brando_

scottwilson

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 28mm f/2.8

11/26/2004 12:35:09 AM · #58

Originally posted by fotodude:

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

And stuck in a time warp
This is the reason younger people are better to hire for jobs - they are more keen to learn and evolve and are more up to date with technology having a fresh view on the world and are not stuck down by one way to do things.

Not saying that all you oldies on this site are stuck in a time warp but for sure this guy is

sorry man but film is still fastly superior to digital.

on a ruff scale
highest film camera takes at 14.5MP or something like that.

film>asa-800=8mb of data
asa-400=16mb " "
asa-200=32mb " "
asa-100=64MB " "
asa-64=128MB " "-----I don't know about u but the last time i chacked the lowest Dell laptop 1 can buy comes with 2 128MB sticks of RAM. and 1 shot at w/asa 64 film takes up half of that laptops RAM.........

My point is made

Note:the scale is rough and I LOVE DIGITAL but i'm just stating that some times what seems old can actualy be better in quality than the new.

take any oldschool thing and pitt aginst a newfangled gismo and it will prove more reliable 70% of the time (stistics by my experience)

You really think film 35mm film can make a good 128 MP image?
Try it and let us know how it comes out, I would love to see it.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

11/26/2004 12:37:26 AM · #59

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

Postprocessing software
Can find good ones for free usally come with camera or get an illegal version ;)

I hope you're not seriously advocating using pirated software to run a business. The fines/penalties for that run into the tens of thousands of dollars.

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

memory cards (film)
You kidding right? 256MB is sufficent and affordable < $100

Not for a professional shooting with a 6MP or more DSLR it isn't.

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

Portable storage
If your comparing directly with film you don't have any backup with film
and if you do use a HDD - thats more securer than film

HDD's crash. Film, not so much.

-Terry

11/26/2004 12:38:06 AM · #60

Originally posted by fotodude:

jeez you need to learn not to use jargon for the dumb people like me -
I get your point im not saying digital is better but can we really tell the difference? visually is all we care about - not how many dots and dashes make up an image, its not really all that important its the quality at the end which we trully care about

for the ram and stuff thats not important - for one you would be using the hard drive for storing your information which you can get upto and over 1TB on high end desktops and 100GB on the average new ones
- you can also increase your virtual memory of your system which uses hard disk space and acts as ram so literally you can have 20GB reserved for virtual memory and 80GB left over for storage

sorry for the jargon but i can't explain it any simplier :(

11/26/2004 12:45:01 AM · #61

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

memory cards (film)
You kidding right? 256MB is sufficent and affordable < $100

Not for a professional shooting with a 6MP or more DSLR it isn't.

42 pictures at 6MP then load onto HDD (cross your fingers that it doesn't crash :p) probally buy 512MB which is 84 pictures if your trigger happy but on one occassion you shouldn't be loading onto the hard drive too much - if the hard drives is too slow and you take a few hundred pictures - save the $400 don't buy a hard drive just buy a large compacity memory card

Message edited by author 2004-11-26 00:46:10.

11/26/2004 12:53:21 AM · #62

Originally posted by scottwilson:

Originally posted by fotodude:

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

And stuck in a time warp
This is the reason younger people are better to hire for jobs - they are more keen to learn and evolve and are more up to date with technology having a fresh view on the world and are not stuck down by one way to do things.

Not saying that all you oldies on this site are stuck in a time warp but for sure this guy is

sorry man but film is still fastly superior to digital.

on a ruff scale
highest film camera takes at 14.5MP or something like that.

film>asa-800=8mb of data
asa-400=16mb " "
asa-200=32mb " "
asa-100=64MB " "
asa-64=128MB " "-----I don't know about u but the last time i chacked the lowest Dell laptop 1 can buy comes with 2 128MB sticks of RAM. and 1 shot at w/asa 64 film takes up half of that laptops RAM.........

My point is made

Note:the scale is rough and I LOVE DIGITAL but i'm just stating that some times what seems old can actualy be better in quality than the new.

take any oldschool thing and pitt aginst a newfangled gismo and it will prove more reliable 70% of the time (stistics by my experience)

You really think film 35mm film can make a good 128 MP image?
Try it and let us know how it comes out, I would love to see it.

sorry i was talking about medium/full formatt not 35mm and it comes out quite good u can develope it at any size in a darkroom. it is =to MB not mp by the way if u figure that a 14.5 MP camera creates roughly a 16MB image at most.(i don't own 1 so i'm prob. wrong on that but i'm sure it won't creat an image that is 128MB that would be 2 pics. to 1 256MB card)

//www.crime-scene-investigator.net/admissibilityofdigital.html
//photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007Ykw
//libraries.maine.edu/Spatial/gisweb/spatdb/acsm95/ac95071.html

11/26/2004 12:55:17 AM · #63

Originally posted by fotodude:

vontom

11/26/2004 12:58:42 AM · #64

Re: legality of digital images

From the FBI website, a quote:

Section 1550.6, added in August of 1996, defines originality of video and digital images by stating:

Images stored on video or digital media, or copies of images stored on video or digital media, shall not be rendered inadmissible by the best evidence rule. Printed representations of images stored on video or digital media shall be presumed accurate representations of the images they purport to represent.

The link to the long and technical article:
//www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/oct2000/berg.htm

EditL to the detail argument, a site referenced earlier has this article:
//clarkvision.com/imagedetail/film.vs.digital.summary1.html

Message edited by author 2004-11-26 01:07:24.

11/26/2004 01:08:55 AM · #65

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by fotodude:

honest to God

i work at wolf camera and all the police force buys from us is film, polariod,etc. so i asked the cheif (note i live in a suburbe of chicago he is the chief of our local police force under cook county authority)
those were his exact words.
the police force can not bring a digital image to in front of a judge since it can be aulterd to esaly.

We also develope negs. for the police department and we get all film we have never had an officer (other than for presional use) walk up and use a picunit to send digital "mugshot" pics. through for prosses in our lab.

i know lie

Note also:the force does have a darkroom the just send negs. to us when the are over loaded.

_brando_

//www.crime-scene-investigator.net/admissibilityofdigital.html
//photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007Ykw
//libraries.maine.edu/Spatial/gisweb/spatdb/acsm95/ac95071.html

thanx for the info mk & vontom, all i know is what i heard and what i've developed and the "mug shot" EPD brings us are all on film.-i didn't know any better and assumed that what he said was accurate.

"I'm am very sorry for presenting u all with falisifide information and on behalf of myself and CBS news sorry"

funny i could've sworn that the earth was going at a rappid pace twards the sun. oh well...

i pulled a Dan Rather

_brando_

Message edited by author 2004-11-26 01:10:37.

vontom

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

11/26/2004 01:39:40 AM · #66

We won't hold it against you. But don't do it again! :)

atsxus

Canon EOS-10D

11/26/2004 01:49:13 AM · #67

Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

42 pictures at 6MP then load onto HDD (cross your fingers that it doesn't crash :p) probally buy 512MB which is 84 pictures if your trigger happy but on one occassion you shouldn't be loading onto the hard drive too much - if the hard drives is too slow and you take a few hundred pictures - save the $400 don't buy a hard drive just buy a large compacity memory card

I was at a convention in July, and I had just bought my camera. I didn't know how close I'd get to the stage so I had my camera on it's highest setting, roughtly 8MB/image. I did not have a laptop at the time, nor did I have any means of transfering data from my camera to another device. It was a 7 day trip, in which I traveled Vancouver, and took well over 3,000 images. Most people, do not have the luxury of transfering images every 64 pictures or so. especially if you're in a time sensitive moment, or on safari, as a lot of our members are lucky enough to go on. Being able to take pictures at will, is one of the best benefits of digital. Why confine yourself to 64 pictures, when you can take so much more? Why not be trigger happy? You limit yourself, and you miss out.

atsxus

Canon EOS-10D

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

11/26/2004 02:22:38 AM · #68

Master at Work

This has got to be his best photograph to date.

colda

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/26/2004 02:51:30 AM · #69

Originally posted by atsxus:

Master at Work

This has got to be his best photograph to date.

Truly awesome work - I'm inspired, maybe I could buy a disposable and become his assistant :)

e301

11/26/2004 04:57:48 AM · #70

Originally posted by atsxus:

Master at Work

This has got to be his best photograph to date.

That's it - the elusive 'world's best photograph' - the one we've all been looking for!

Actually, that shot being in his gallery makes me think the whole site must be a joke, some sort of wind-up. He, surely, cannot be serious, can he? Anyone tried getting in touch with him yet?

Ed