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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Adding to Alien Bee
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 11/16/2004 09:21:57 PM · #1
Hi all! I have one Alien Bee (B400) but he's lonely! LOL Actually, I need to add a couple of lights to use for fill and/or background lights. My studio space (converted bedroom) is small so I don't need a whole bunch of power. I am thinking of getting two of these Paterson lights. What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Why?

Thanks for your input!
 11/16/2004 11:07:19 PM · #2
Now I know all ya'll are sittin' around, waiting for the clock to strike midnight so you can see all six hundred and eleven b&W challenge entries so could you please help me out with my question? Pretty please? With sugar on top?
 11/16/2004 11:07:58 PM · #3
I'm sorry - make that 613!
 11/16/2004 11:18:32 PM · #4
why not another Alien Bee 400? Price?
 11/16/2004 11:38:49 PM · #5
Originally posted by smokeditor:
why not another Alien Bee 400? Price?


Yeah - just trying to save a little :-)
 11/16/2004 11:52:49 PM · #6
I have a pair of Interfit 250s and just bought the Softbox for them. I have been vary pleased with the quality and build of these strobes. I have taken them to night time rodeos, and have used them indoors and find that their ability to dial down the power setting to be a great asset. I would highly recommend these strobes for anyone looking to start or add to their existing lighting setup.

-danny

PS. My calendar entry was done using them.
 11/17/2004 12:01:08 AM · #7
Originally posted by crabappl3:
I have a pair of Interfit 250s and just bought the Softbox for them. I have been vary pleased with the quality and build of these strobes. I have taken them to night time rodeos, and have used them indoors and find that their ability to dial down the power setting to be a great asset. I would highly recommend these strobes for anyone looking to start or add to their existing lighting setup.

-danny

PS. My calendar entry was done using them.


Interesting... Thanks for sharing!
I have heard that one of the main reasons for not mixing lights is because of the color temp differences but they are both daylight balanced (5600k) so I would think it wouldn't be a big deal.

Anyone else have any input?
 11/17/2004 12:59:31 AM · #8
I could be totally wrong here but don't you have to be careful with a sync voltage over 6v?
That light is 8v...you would need to use a voltage regulator if you plug it in to your camera.
It's late...I could easily be wrong though...

I just got two alien bee 800's and love them.
They are not too heavy and they have a built in cooling fan which i think that other light doesnt.
 11/17/2004 04:31:37 AM · #9
Originally posted by TerryGee:
I could be totally wrong here but don't you have to be careful with a sync voltage over 6v?


If you're using the PC socket on the 20D it's rated for 250V, not too sure about the hotshoe though...

edit: I think the 300D is 6V, although I've used and 8V flash (Vivitar 285's) on my fathers, with no ill effects, a few times now. And my G5 has never complained about the 285's at 8V and it's rating is 6 as well... YMMV, and I didn't say it would work etc..

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 04:33:33.
 11/17/2004 07:34:12 AM · #10
Unless I miss my guess the camera would be PC sync'd to the original AB 400. Those 2 lights would fire as slaves so they wouldn't have to be connected to the camera. In the event that you only used one of those lights, you might want a SyncSafe (or whatever the name it). That would be the least expensive. You could always put a radio trigger on the camera and a remote receiver on the light and then you wouldn't have a problem with it but I thought the point was to not spend too much.

Even with "daylight balanced" lights you might want to keep in mind that different manufacturers may use different qualities of strobes/flash tubes so that what is "daylight balanced" on the day you purchase it may degrade in temp/color faster than the AlienBee (or vice versa). I have used the Canon flash units (550EX & 420EX) with my AB800's as fill light or kickers on the background and so far haven't had any noticeable color issues (caveat: since I'm only using a white background right now I usually put a gel over one of the lights to give the bg some color so don't take my experience as too strong an argument about color consistency; just not enough evidence at this point).

Kev
 11/17/2004 10:30:20 AM · #11
Anyone else have an opinion?
 11/17/2004 11:27:36 AM · #12
Originally posted by digistoune:
Anyone else have an opinion?


I have lots of opinions, but I'm assuming that you are looking for ones that are specifically related to this mixing of lights.

As far as differences between 2 different strobe units, the important thing is to make sure that both tubes are either UV coated or not UV coated. Depending on what you are shooting, UV light can cause some things to flouresce. Some clothing will, esp. if it has been washed in detergent that has brighteners (usually some phosphorous compuond), some makeups also flouresce giving the appearance that the makeup is about 2 shades too light.

Other differences should be minor, there will be some variation between the color temp output of any 2 flashtubes, even identical models from the same manufacturer. The real question is if that variation is significant relative to the shooting you plan to do. If you are shooting products or some other work where it is critical to reproduce the color very accurately, it might be worth understanding and controlling it, but for most, it's not a big issue.


11/17/2004 11:49:31 AM · #13
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by digistoune:
Anyone else have an opinion?


I have lots of opinions, but I'm assuming that you are looking for ones that are specifically related to this mixing of lights.

As far as differences between 2 different strobe units, the important thing is to make sure that both tubes are either UV coated or not UV coated. Depending on what you are shooting, UV light can cause some things to flouresce. Some clothing will, esp. if it has been washed in detergent that has brighteners (usually some phosphorous compuond), some makeups also flouresce giving the appearance that the makeup is about 2 shades too light.

Other differences should be minor, there will be some variation between the color temp output of any 2 flashtubes, even identical models from the same manufacturer. The real question is if that variation is significant relative to the shooting you plan to do. If you are shooting products or some other work where it is critical to reproduce the color very accurately, it might be worth understanding and controlling it, but for most, it's not a big issue.


LOL - your adherence to the subject at hand is appreciated!

Say I was shooting products... would the inclusion of a GretagMacbeth color chart, for example, in the first shot be adequate for post-editing color accuracy?
 11/17/2004 11:53:09 AM · #14
One of the biggest reasons for sticking with one brand is "accessory compatability" (i.e., grids, barn doors, snoots, etc.)

Also, down the road you could buy (or somebody could buy for you as a Christmas present) the way-cool remote control, and control the power settings of up to 4 AB lights right from the remote! Especially handy when they hairlight is up on the boom stand and needs to be adjusted a bit...

Another advantage: AB strobes are upgradeable. If you buy AB400's now and as you move to a larger space and start to use larger lighting modifiers (like softboxes) that need more power or you want to shoot at smaller apertures, you can send in your AB's and upgrade them to AB800's or AB1600's for a nominal charge plus the difference in cost between the units.

Just my 2¢

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 11:54:57.
 11/17/2004 12:07:21 PM · #15
Originally posted by EddyG:
One of the biggest reasons for sticking with one brand is "accessory compatability" (i.e., grids, barn doors, snoots, etc.)

Also, down the road you could buy (or somebody could buy for you as a Christmas present) the way-cool remote control, and control the power settings of up to 4 AB lights right from the remote! Especially handy when they hairlight is up on the boom stand and needs to be adjusted a bit...

Another advantage: AB strobes are upgradeable. If you buy AB400's now and as you move to a larger space and start to use larger lighting modifiers (like softboxes) that need more power or you want to shoot at smaller apertures, you can send in your AB's and upgrade them to AB800's or AB1600's for a nominal charge plus the difference in cost between the units.

Just my 2¢


Yes, that remote control is very, very cool! I didn't know about their upgrade plan - can I assume you have utilized that? How did you find out about it?

And forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by, "if you want to shoot at smaller apertures"?

As usual, Eddy, you are a wonderful source of information!
 11/17/2004 12:16:39 PM · #16
Originally posted by digistoune:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by digistoune:
Anyone else have an opinion?


I have lots of opinions, but I'm assuming that you are looking for ones that are specifically related to this mixing of lights.

As far as differences between 2 different strobe units, the important thing is to make sure that both tubes are either UV coated or not UV coated. Depending on what you are shooting, UV light can cause some things to flouresce. Some clothing will, esp. if it has been washed in detergent that has brighteners (usually some phosphorous compuond), some makeups also flouresce giving the appearance that the makeup is about 2 shades too light.

Other differences should be minor, there will be some variation between the color temp output of any 2 flashtubes, even identical models from the same manufacturer. The real question is if that variation is significant relative to the shooting you plan to do. If you are shooting products or some other work where it is critical to reproduce the color very accurately, it might be worth understanding and controlling it, but for most, it's not a big issue.


LOL - your adherence to the subject at hand is appreciated!

Say I was shooting products... would the inclusion of a GretagMacbeth color chart, for example, in the first shot be adequate for post-editing color accuracy?


Maybe.

The problem is that the color temp will not be consistent in the whole scene. It's the same issue of trying to balance a scene illuminated with both tungsten and strobe, if you correct the WB for one source, ther rest of the scene is off. The differences in color temp just aren't as great in this case. The question is how different are they and does that difference matter in the work you are doing? The differences are likely very small, and may not even be detectable, but they are there.
 11/17/2004 12:53:42 PM · #17
Originally posted by digistoune:
I didn't know about their upgrade plan - can I assume you have utilized that? How did you find out about it?

I haven't personally utilized their upgrade plan, but you can read about it here (see "Easy Upgrade Policy" near the bottom of the page).

Originally posted by digistoune:
And forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by, "if you want to shoot at smaller apertures"?

If you want more depth-of-field, you need to use a smaller aperture (larger Æ’-number). And that means you need more light output from your strobes to arrive at the same exposure. So if you are currently shooting still lifes or something at say Æ’/4 of Æ’/5.6 and getting what you want, but also want to do portraiture and want to ensure the entire head of the subject is "in focus" (within the depth of field) so their ears or hair don't get "blurry", you may need to move up to Æ’/8 or Æ’/11. And that means needing more power... that's what I was referring to. =]

Hope that helps!
 11/17/2004 01:31:08 PM · #18
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by digistoune:
I didn't know about their upgrade plan - can I assume you have utilized that? How did you find out about it?

I haven't personally utilized their upgrade plan, but you can read about it here (see "Easy Upgrade Policy" near the bottom of the page).

Originally posted by digistoune:
And forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by, "if you want to shoot at smaller apertures"?

If you want more depth-of-field, you need to use a smaller aperture (larger Æ’-number). And that means you need more light output from your strobes to arrive at the same exposure. So if you are currently shooting still lifes or something at say Æ’/4 of Æ’/5.6 and getting what you want, but also want to do portraiture and want to ensure the entire head of the subject is "in focus" (within the depth of field) so their ears or hair don't get "blurry", you may need to move up to Æ’/8 or Æ’/11. And that means needing more power... that's what I was referring to. =]

Hope that helps!


Ok, that's what I thought you meant! I have never had a problem/limitation with higher aperatures so I thought maybe I was missing something. :-D Wouldn't be the first time!
 11/17/2004 01:43:24 PM · #19
This all over my head. Anybody have a link to a photolighting basics page? I want to setup a supercheap studio...
 11/17/2004 05:38:20 PM · #20
I appreciate everyones input on this! After looking at how much it would cost to get the Patersons (along with required light modifiers) I found that I wasn't saving such a significant amount to make the headaches of combining different strobes worth it. Thanks for pointing that out, Eddie, as I hadn't really taken that into consideration.
So, I went ahead and got a couple more Bees. Can't wait till they arrive! I'll post pics of the whole set-up when they do.

Cheers!!
 11/17/2004 08:36:01 PM · #21
Originally posted by digistoune:
I appreciate everyones input on this! After looking at how much it would cost to get the Patersons (along with required light modifiers)
SNIP

Do you find you use the light modifiers a lot?

I have just ordered a couple of Elinchrom studio lights. They come with umbrellas and a softbox, but the kit does not have barn doors, snoot, or honeycomb (grids), which I will have to buy at a later date.

Do you find you use those sort of things a lot? (open to anyone using studio lights)
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