Critique the Critiques? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

06/12/2004 08:24:07 PM · #1

I know this may sound a bit "hokey" to some - but yes, I'm serious.

I think the critique club is one of the best features on this site. Participation by both the photographer and critiquer is voluntary - and should be mutually beneficial.

But, I'd like to suggest (and will do so if enough of y'all agree) that we add one more additional critique club feature - a check box that submits the critique itself into a queue for the critiue club. Then, when you go to the CC page you have a choice - Give me an image to critique - or give me a critique to critique.

When making comments on the CC critiques, we would try to answer [some of] these or similar questions:

1. Was the critiquer positive or a bit too negative? Did the critiquer point out positive aspects of the image as well as improvement areas?

2. Did the critiquer made suggestions on how to improve the image? Would the suggestions made help the image?

3. Did the critiquer miss any obvious flaws? Are there other suggestion that could/should have been made?

You get the idea. We certainly don't want to take away the "individualness" of critiques, but this may give timid or new CC members an [optional] avenue to self-improvement.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

06/12/2004 08:28:09 PM · #2

Not hokey at all.

I think this would help everyone in the long run as the critiques would get better.

Zoomdak

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/13/2004 12:26:07 AM · #3

The problem I see in this is it may cut down on the quanities of Critique Club Critiques even more. There are 144 photos to critique right now. How many more would there be if people are busy critiqueing other critiques instead of critiqueing photos.
I think if the person who's photo critiqued the critique, it would be much better, rather than have someone who was not involved to begin with.

jadin

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

06/29/2004 02:30:01 AM · #4

I agree with Zoomdak. Are the critques seriously that bad that they need this?

A better idea I think would be a button for the photographer after receiving a critque. "I would like a second opinion."

dhare

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

06/29/2004 02:54:23 AM · #5

Originally posted by jadin:

I think the point that Photom is trying to get across is giving a bit of feedback to the person critiqing the shot, other than 'this comment was helpful' box. I think it's a good idea.

mandyp

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

06/29/2004 03:07:42 AM · #6

I received a critique recently that I thought was helpful so I PM'd the person and let them know. Perhaps that's a good starting point?

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

06/29/2004 11:26:05 AM · #7

Originally posted by dhare:

Originally posted by jadin:
I agree with Zoomdak. Are the critques seriously that bad that they need this?

A better idea I think would be a button for the photographer after receiving a critque. "I would like a second opinion."

I think the point that Photom is trying to get across is giving a bit of feedback to the person critiqing the shot, other than 'this comment was helpful' box. I think it's a good idea.

This was not intended so much for comments - but for the full-blown critiques from members of the critique club.

Other members of the critique club would compare the image to the critique and then tell the original critiquer how he or she could improve the critique [or that it was great.]

Donatien

Nikon D90

06/29/2004 11:46:04 AM · #8

Originally posted by dhare:

I think the point that Photom is trying to get across is giving a bit of feedback to the person critiqing the shot, other than 'this comment was helpful' box. I think it's a good idea.

Perhaps it would be nice with a voting system instead of the "found-it-useful" check box. Ie "How would you rate this comment (1-5)". Then we would get top-lists for commentators too, adding to the addiction of this site and perhaps adding some incitement for ppl to actually spare a few more words than "out of focus" or so.

Message edited by author 2004-09-06 06:47:36.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/29/2004 12:08:17 PM · #9

Originally posted by Donatien:

Originally posted by dhare:
I think the point that Photom is trying to get across is giving a bit of feedback to the person critiqing the shot, other than 'this comment was helpful' box. I think it's a good idea.

Perhaps it would be nice with a voting system instead of the "found-it-useful" check box. Ie "How would you rate this comment (1-5)". Then we would get top-lists for commentators too, adding to the addiction of this site and perhaps adding some incitement for ppl to actually spare a few more words than "out of focus" or so.

Maybe a variation of the system used to rate the Tutorials would work. Other people who read the critique could rate it too ... it uses a 1-3 or NR (No Rating) scale.

Maybe figure out a way for the CC member to paste the code into the body of their comment, or else create a separate box (from the running comments) on the photo's display page.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/29/2004 12:43:11 PM · #10

Originally posted by photom:

...1. Was the critiquer positive or a bit too negative? Did the critiquer point out positive aspects of the image as well as improvement areas?

2. Did the critiquer made suggestions on how to improve the image? Would the suggestions made help the image?

3. Did the critiquer miss any obvious flaws? Are there other suggestion that could/should have been made?

...

1. A positive or negative slant, frankly, concerns me little. A balanced one would often carry more weight though, IMO, and depending on the picture.
If a good critic does, in fact, find something rotten in an image I made, I would invite him/her to put his/her fist through it.

2. A critique may still be valuable, even if the critic cannot spell out specific improvements. I know I've taken (and submitted) pictures I've subsequently improved by deletion from my personal archive.

3. A good critic should not only recognize a flaw, of course; he should also recognize an accomplishment.

4. I'd welcome an informed critique, one which demonstrates a keen interest in the facts of the photograph and its context. I would like it to be articulate and considerate of both technical and artistic possibilities. I would like to see the points made substantiated.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/29/2004 01:13:48 PM · #11

All:

Just a a test, I would love comments about any of my critiques that start with "Hello and Greetings from the Critique Club"

If anyone has time - especially but not only other critique club members - I'd appreciate a short comment.

And, if anyone would like me do the same for them - let me know, I'd be glad to.

-Tom-

rich

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/29/2004 01:27:50 PM · #12

Something that might be interesting would be to have a "Critique Exchange Program" of sorts.

By that I mean that you must provide a critique of a photograph in a pool in order to receive a critique yourself. It seems fair, for one thing, and it also expands the education of the person seeking a critique. They are placed in the challenging position of writing a critique on their own and really evaluating a piece of work.

This is likely not an original suggestion, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway...

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

06/29/2004 03:53:23 PM · #13

Re: No Game Today
by OneSweetSin

Your Comment:
Hi Anna and * Greetings from the Critique Club *

First let's examine the comments that basically say "it doesn't meet the challenge." I personally would have to say that a very high percentahe of bleachers are indeed used for team sports. So - to me, the answer is "of course it meets the challenge." But - DPC voters are oftn very demanding and some require a more obvious tie to the subject. If you are trying for higher scores, it is probably best to leave no doubts. The image should SHOUT "team sport" - not just whisper it.

Photographically, the image is a bit moody and lonely. Perhaps a better title would have been something that suggests the mood, such as "We were division champs 10 years ago." You get the idea.

You have increased the lonely feeling by the very muted colors and the (what appears to be) inclusion of the empty parking lot.

Things that bother me some about the image are:

a) The black triangle in the upper left corner - easily cropped out.
b) the "splotchy" shadows (or whatever the dark spots on the ground are.)

Too bad you didn't find the shot until late in the challenge - if you had more time to play around with this - I bet you could make a stronger entry.

Keep shooting and sharing.

-Tom-

> 1st paragraph: your observations regarding topicality are, IMO, good and useful. I'd be less inclined to encourage catering to what is popular, yet your point is valid in that it provides a sound premise from which a photographer can draw his/her own conclusions.

> 2nd paragraph plus: the attributes you chose to ascribe the image are positive indeed, given the exclusive subject, it's repair and condition, not to mention the unflattering perspective and exposure chosen for it. While, I am sure, it wasn't the easiest exposure to make under the conditions, it also appears likely to me that more care taken in making a deliberate choice would have made a photograph instead of just a picture of something. I would consider adjectives like moody, lonely and muted all complimentary, if not flattering here.

If you would have said that the choice of subject appealed to you, I could view these properties as complimentary to it. I cannot find them, however, either captured or rendered convincingly in the image at hand.

I can only imagine that your intent was to give your critique a positive spin, which has effectively hued it in this respect, but also sapped it of credibility and gist, IMO.

While I find this critique cordial, accomodating and, quite obviously well-intended. I could also imagine a more extensive one, more rigorous and thorough, which, admittedly, is asking quite a bit considering the photo and the effort it takes to do this well.

Message edited by author 2004-06-29 15:54:28.