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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> the age old "what do you think?" questions
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04/13/2010 05:15:20 PM · #1
I currently own a good ol Rebel (6MP)and am looking to upgrade to a t2i or a 7d.
(I'm leaning towards a t2i, figuring if I haven't upgraded in this many years, that the t2i will be enough camera for me to smack my lips over - on the other hand, I do want to move forward in learning more)

Regardless, of which camera, it seems that I am committed at staying with a cropped cam for now. (although do want to get a kit together that would make the transition to FF smooth)

I currently have a 50mm f/1.8 and a Tamron 18-250.

I'm quite keen on picking up an UWA. (thinking Sigma 10-22, unless I can be convinced that the extra $220 is well worth the Canon) and for kicks I want a Lensbaby Composer.

Otherwise, I'm trying to avoid EFS lenses, so that I can start building a long term kit.

I primarily like to shoot "street shots" / candids, but of course take tons of pics of my family (again, candids, not posed), love architecture, and travel tons.
I currently am frustrated by low light situations and shoot avoiding flash.

I am thinking about getting a 16-35 f/2.8, as a walk around lens... but it has overlap with the 10-22, so should I think about 24-70 instead?

I have approximately $3500 to spend all in.

eg.

t2i 18-55 $900.00
t2i grip $160.00
lensbabycomposer $270.00
lensbabycase $15.00
sigma 10-22 4 $479.00
canon16-35 2.8 $1,420.00
extra battery $70.00
skin $40.00
filter $75.00

$3,429.00

Do you think my selection of a t2i & 16-35mm are sound?
What changes would you make to my shopping list?

04/13/2010 05:26:01 PM · #2
The 16-35mm f/2.8L is a powerhouse of a lens, very expensive and really only justifiable on a full frame camera. The 17-40mm f/4L, on a cropped sensor, is pretty much its equal, albeit a stop slower. That's not as much an issue as it used to be since these cameras have vastly improved high-ISO performance. I use the 17-40 on my 5D, and I am happy with it. If you get that one, then you have saved more than enough to "upgrade" to the Canon 10-22mm, which is the best in its class. And when/if you go to FF, that Canon 10-22mm will hold its value MUCH better than the Sigma 10-22. Meanwhile, the 17-40 will be your ultrawide when you move over to FF.

24-70mm is not wide enough, IMO, to be a good walkaround on the cropped sensor camera, though it, or the 24-105mm works nicely in that niche with a FF camera.

R.
04/13/2010 05:50:52 PM · #3
eeeks. I gotta ask the whacked out question... I've heard the 18-55 IS kit lens is better than ever before. I was just reading a comparison of the 18-55 and it held it's own. Should I buy the 17-40 now? or only get it when I buy a FF
(although I am trying to off load some of the expenses when the day comes to get a FF)

What does that stop slower in the 17-40 (vs 16-35) translate to in low light situations?

I know people with FF that use 16-35 as their walk around... do you know if it is common for cropped users to walk around with 10-22? (too much distortion?)
04/13/2010 06:02:51 PM · #4
Originally posted by TorontoFigs:

eeeks. I gotta ask the whacked out question... I've heard the 18-55 IS kit lens is better than ever before. I was just reading a comparison of the 18-55 and it held it's own. Should I buy the 17-40 now? or only get it when I buy a FF
(although I am trying to off load some of the expenses when the day comes to get a FF)

What does that stop slower in the 17-40 (vs 16-35) translate to in low light situations?

I know people with FF that use 16-35 as their walk around... do you know if it is common for cropped users to walk around with 10-22? (too much distortion?)


Well, *I* did it with my 20D, and the 17-40mm is my walkaround on the 5D now, but penny has the 7D now (the 20D's retired) and possession of my former 10-22mm, and SHE prefers her 18-135mm IS as a walkaround, so... I'm really a WA guy, and she's really a details gal, so your mileage will vary based on your own tendencies.

I don't know how to answer what that "1-stop slower" will "translate to in low-light situations" if you don't already have a sense of that yourself. I'm a tripod sort of guy, for example, so it's just not an issue for me, and even less so now that I have the 5D, which happily shoots at ISO 1600. Take this image, for example:



That's a hand-held night shot at f/4 and ISO 1600, with the 17-40mm. I grabbed it while penny was getting some coffee after a sunset shoot. The quality amazes me. That sky wasn't anywhere NEAR as bright as it looks, this was at the far end of Nautical Twilight.

Anyway, you have to decide these things for yourself, and if you don't really KNOW the differences by now then it's arguably too soon to be spending the bucks that are required to acquire a killer lens like that 16-35mm f/2.8L :-)

R.
04/13/2010 07:52:02 PM · #5
Originally posted by TorontoFigs:

eeeks. I gotta ask the whacked out question... I've heard the 18-55 IS kit lens is better than ever before. I was just reading a comparison of the 18-55 and it held it's own. Should I buy the 17-40 now? or only get it when I buy a FF

It serves me just fine. Nice and sharp, though I eventually want a walkaround lens with a bit more reach. Under some conditions I can see a little purple fringing at the wide end, but really only when pixel peeping. If you have an 18-55 IS already, and it suits your needs, there is no reason to dump it. (IMO)
A handful of my challenge entries using the 18-55 IS:


Message edited by author 2010-04-13 19:55:49.
04/13/2010 11:17:02 PM · #6
fab fun photos yo spiff
04/14/2010 05:12:10 PM · #7
Bear,

In my typical polite canadian way, instead of just saying "hey! you're not answering my questions or listening to my needs" I opted for the soft, less agressive question asking approach. My bad.

My "question" regarding 1 fstop slower was to be read more of a reminder to my original post which stipulated that capturing candid (non-tripod) low light images was a priority for me. Seeing that unlike you, I don't have my sights on a 5D, I was asking based on my SPECIFICS (cropped cam, t2i or 7d) candid walkabouts, travelling (which includes museums and churches) whether the slower fstop would work for me.

There is a reason why on my original post I asked about 2 L lenses that are f2.8

04/14/2010 05:36:45 PM · #8
I love my 7D but I would actuall suggest going with the T2i since it doesn't really look like you need the faster fps.
04/14/2010 06:38:29 PM · #9
I hear ya jminso. I have been flipflopping between t2i vs 7d for WEEKS.

t2i is enough of a jump from my rebel, and I can stay within budget.. giving me the opportunity to spend some more money or better lenses, external flash etc. For right now, it is enough camera for me. It would be nice (but not wow in my mind. A nice practical choice)

however...

7d is fast (not just fps but that crazy auto focus system)... I covet the 7d more.
I have a product shot gig coming up next month. And 2 real estate agents have asked me to shoot houses for them. Will I walk into these gigs with a greater sense of pride if I had the 7d? Would I feel almost apologetic walking in with a t2i? Is ego and a "what will they think?" mentality, good enough reasons to buy a camera?

I'd have a crazier learning curve with the 7d... it would put me out more financially, but will it give me the confidence to pursue opportunities that I haven't been pursuing currently?

04/14/2010 06:54:32 PM · #10
Originally posted by TorontoFigs:

Bear,

In my typical polite canadian way, instead of just saying "hey! you're not answering my questions or listening to my needs" I opted for the soft, less agressive question asking approach. My bad.

My "question" regarding 1 fstop slower was to be read more of a reminder to my original post which stipulated that capturing candid (non-tripod) low light images was a priority for me. Seeing that unlike you, I don't have my sights on a 5D, I was asking based on my SPECIFICS (cropped cam, t2i or 7d) candid walkabouts, travelling (which includes museums and churches) whether the slower fstop would work for me.

There is a reason why on my original post I asked about 2 L lenses that are f2.8


can't help you much, but i compared two cams at dxomark at print sizes , and they are almost identical in terms of SNR and DR etc. Their curves overlap.
What it means that as far as images go with respect to low light you are going to get the same no matter what cam you chose.

About lenses, i guess canon users would fill in , i do not know much about them.

04/14/2010 08:31:39 PM · #11
Originally posted by TorontoFigs:

Bear,

In my typical polite canadian way, instead of just saying "hey! you're not answering my questions or listening to my needs" I opted for the soft, less agressive question asking approach. My bad.

My "question" regarding 1 fstop slower was to be read more of a reminder to my original post which stipulated that capturing candid (non-tripod) low light images was a priority for me. Seeing that unlike you, I don't have my sights on a 5D, I was asking based on my SPECIFICS (cropped cam, t2i or 7d) candid walkabouts, travelling (which includes museums and churches) whether the slower fstop would work for me.

There is a reason why on my original post I asked about 2 L lenses that are f2.8


well:

Originally posted by TorontoFigs:

(although do want to get a kit together that would make the transition to FF smooth)


There's a reason why I've almost stopped even trying to give advice on these threads, and responses like the above are it :-(

Sorry to have bothered you with my stupidity.

R.

Message edited by author 2010-04-14 20:32:35.
04/14/2010 09:16:31 PM · #12


Message edited by author 2010-04-15 13:17:06.
04/14/2010 09:58:04 PM · #13
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


I'm really impressed!

I've known Robert over three years and I have to actually work at it to get him disgusted at me, or be monumentally thick-headed.

You've done it in one thread!

That's *REALLY* special!

Oh.....if you have one iota of the brains you were born with, you'll look VERY closely at the information Robert gave you. It's abundantly clear that you don't know squat, and lemme tell ya.....Robert's too nice to tell you that.


Hmmmmm...
I'm pretty sure Bear is a grown ass man and his words stand for themselves. Nobody needs to engage in divisive language and actions here.
Bear, just because it feels like you're beating your head against a wall, don't despair. There are a lot of people that search these forums and are even just lurking and can glean information from the posts regardless of what the OP decides to do. Your posts benefit the community as a whole, they aren't just encapsulated within their time and space. People can and do decide whatever they want to with ANY information they're provided. Their decision isn't your responsibility, and it's still noble to provide them with information you deem pertinent. An individual's failure to heed your advice does not mean your efforts were in vain.
04/14/2010 11:41:38 PM · #14
It's not even ABOUT "heeding my advice", people :-( I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that I manage to miss the mark lots of times.

No, what gets to me is that people actually *call out* other people if the responses don't match the poster's preconception of what he's looking for. The more civil approach, when you're given advice you consider useless, is to either thank the person and move on, or just ignore the post altogether. It's when I get told how stupid I am, how grossly I've misunderstood the OP's request, that I wonder WTF is going on. I don't get paid enough for that BS, ya know?

R.
04/14/2010 11:47:52 PM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's not even ABOUT "heeding my advice", people :-( I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that I manage to miss the mark lots of times.

No, what gets to me is that people actually *call out* other people if the responses don't match the poster's preconception of what he's looking for. The more civil approach, when you're given advice you consider useless, is to either thank the person and move on, or just ignore the post altogether. It's when I get told how stupid I am, how grossly I've misunderstood the OP's request, that I wonder WTF is going on. I don't get paid enough for that BS, ya know?

R.


Unfluff your ruffles Bear, obviously they had far too much Canadian Whiskey before posting.. Your advice is generally valued, and I appreciated what you pointed out, regardless of the thankless nature of the OP. As I am thinking about the 5D mkII pretty often now, I suspect that I need to start paying serious attention to the small details about them, so it was very valuable to me.. Thanks Robert.

Now, relax, rock on, and I hope we get to run into each other sometime in RL.

Cheers Bear!
04/15/2010 12:26:10 AM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's not even ABOUT "heeding my advice", people :-( I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that I manage to miss the mark lots of times.

No, what gets to me is that people actually *call out* other people if the responses don't match the poster's preconception of what he's looking for. The more civil approach, when you're given advice you consider useless, is to either thank the person and move on, or just ignore the post altogether. It's when I get told how stupid I am, how grossly I've misunderstood the OP's request, that I wonder WTF is going on. I don't get paid enough for that BS, ya know?

R.

Fair enough. I'm more just hoping you don't let an instance define your interactions as a whole, and therefore really discourage you from providing input generally.

Message edited by author 2010-04-15 00:26:27.
04/15/2010 06:27:47 AM · #17


Message edited by author 2010-04-15 13:16:48.
04/15/2010 09:19:58 AM · #18
04/15/2010 10:57:50 AM · #19
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

No....no one needs to engage in divisive language, just as nobody elected/appointed you protocol minister and asked you to intercede either.

Or you, for that matter.

This thread is sad for plenty of reasons. Offence was taken by several parties where none was intended. Several fled to the defence of a long-standing member who didn't need to be affronted in the first place. The end result is that a new member probably has a bad taste in his/her mouth, and maybe didn't even get the advice he/she was looking for. There's a lesson about the "new DPC" in here somewhere...
04/15/2010 11:44:27 AM · #20
::daintly nibbles on popcorn::

Oh! This must be the male bonding thread...

::wanders off to go shopping::
04/15/2010 12:59:08 PM · #21
Gonna not add fuel...

Message edited by author 2010-04-15 13:16:29.
04/15/2010 01:07:51 PM · #22
Originally posted by hihosilver:

::daintly nibbles on popcorn::

Oh! This must be the male bonding thread...

::wanders off to go shopping::


yeah, i think we'll leave the boys to their squabbling.

Sara decides to close down DPC for a while and edit some photos.
04/15/2010 01:23:12 PM · #23
Help me here...are those little blue pills Viagra or Valium? My eyesight isn't that great anymore.

Wait for me, girls...

(Luv ya Bear!)
04/15/2010 01:57:21 PM · #24
Those are Valium, 10mg. When they first came out with that format tablet, my first thought was that they look exactly like those small candies you can get strung on a string "necklace" ...
04/15/2010 09:35:32 PM · #25
oh my boys... this has become fascinating.

The response that I gave reminding of my specific outcomes and challenges was not stated with malice (I'm sorry it was read that way) I have been reading forums for quite some time, and I've noticed that more often then not, the posters specific questions are rarely answered.

Admittedly, I was a little disappointed that on my first posting, this was my outcome also. But I certainly didn't mean any disrespect.

I do appreciate the advice. I'm sorry if my gratitude was not made clear.

However, this has left a horrible taste in my mouth, and can not imagine being comfortable seeking advice from this forum again.

Good luck and happy shooting

ck
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