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01/26/2010 02:28:38 PM · #1 |
After a bit of research on the internet really didn't get me very far, I decided I had better see what was available at the shops. I went to a place where they don't have desktops ready - they make them to order. After I told him I wanted it mainly for photography and that I needed a big harddrive, lots of memory and decent speed, this is what he offered me:
2 * 2048 DDR2 memory
Quad Core Q6600 CPU
1T hard drive
NVidea G Force 8800 GT
Optical drive
I understand some of it, but certainly not all. I'd love some advice on whether this sounds like a decent set-up. I know that people here mentioned Core i7 and DDR3 memory, but the guy said that the new technology takes a year to get to South Africa. I'm really desperate, I need a new computer about 6 months ago:( This machine is too small and slow for my requirements and seems to be dying a little more each day.
Edit: I forgot to mention, I'll be away from my computer for a few hours, so won't be able to respond to any questions / suggestions straight away.
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 14:31:36. |
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01/26/2010 02:30:42 PM · #2 |
| I don't know about all that "stuff" either. I bought a HP Touchsmart and LOVE it!! |
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01/26/2010 02:47:37 PM · #3 |
sounds pretty decent, im guessing you know what the graphics card is and stuff if not just ask me, but ddr3 would be better but if you can only acsess ddr2 isnt not too bad. Try and find a review of that model and see what they say. :)
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 14:50:20. |
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01/26/2010 02:48:28 PM · #4 |
| I run a computer shop and can tell you the machine you describe will fly! It is possibly a bit of overkill but if you can afford it go for it. |
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01/26/2010 02:54:13 PM · #5 |
i write my configuration:
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q SE PLUS
Cpu: Dual Core E8400 3.0Ghz
System Memory: 4Gb DDR2-SDRAM Kingstone
Graphic card: nVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT (D9M-30) 512Mb ram
Hard disk: SATA 3Gb/sec 320Gb + SATA 1,5Gb/sec 80Gb + 2 hard disk Maxtor 80Gb + 1 external hard disk 1Tb
Monitor: HP2275W and Spyder 3 for calibration
My use of this pc is only photographic, CS4 and Capture NX2
believe me, is very very fast and not too expensive... |
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01/26/2010 02:57:55 PM · #6 |
That sounds reasonable, but there are some unanswered things in the specs you posted.
-What version of Windows does it come with? For best compatibility, I'd suggest 32 bit Windows7. Myself and some others have 64 bit Win7 and it still has some issues due to lack of 64 bit support for some software and hardware.
-A terabyte hard disk is plenty, but I would recommend having two physical hard disks instead of just one. A smaller one for the OS and applications, and the larger one for your files. If a hard drive fails, you have halved the damage.
Not sure what kind of processor a "Quad Core Q6600 CPU" is. Anything from Intel or AMD is pretty solid. I don't know anything about other makes, but those two are the biggies.
Here's what I am running, built it about a year ago:
-Asus motherboard
-AMD Athlon X2 processor, (Dual core, 3 Ghz)
-Diamond radeon 4650 graphics card
-350 Gb hard disk for OS and applications. Dual booting Vista 32 bit and Win7 64 bit
-Seagate 1 terabyte hard disk for files. (Originally a Maxtor, but it recently failed and they replaced it with the Seagate. Glad I had a recent backup)
-Antec sonata III system case
-LG DVD burner
-Oversized CPU cooler that can also be used as a radiator in my car. (Probably overkill)
-Existing monitor, mouse, keyboard.
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 15:04:32. |
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01/26/2010 02:59:23 PM · #7 |
I bought a similar configured machine a few months ago, but I upgraded graphics to 1Gb from 512mb. It is fast, run PSCS3 and Lightroom at the same time, with music playing in the background. And, of course, I am on DPC as well.
The graphic card Nvidia Geforce 9500GT runs a Samsung T240 monitor via DVI at 1920x1200.
You'll be well pleased with the machine:)
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 15:00:49. |
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01/26/2010 03:40:39 PM · #8 |
Sounds like a machine with pretty solid specs, although "Q6600" is not a valid Intel processor designation, so I question what they are really including. Personally, I would go with a dual core E8500. Less power, a little higher clock speed for the same money. Only highly parallel tasks will benefit from the two additional cores.
4GB of memory is plenty; actually you'll only be able to use between 3 and 3.5GB with a 32-bit OS. If you load a 64-bit OS instead, you can add RAM to your heart's content.
The 8800GT graphics card is a mainstream card tailored to gaming, and in some respects is far more than you need for photography work. My preference is a workstation type card, like the nvidia Quadro FX 570, which at this point might be a little cheaper than the 8800, and draws only a small fraction of the power. It is compatible with GPU use by Ps, and I can tell you that CS4 *flies* under the following configuration:
Intel E8500 Core 2 Duo CPU
8GB DDR2-800 RAM
nvidia Quadro FX graphics card
160 GB boot drive (two 80GB drives in RAID 0)
1TB data drive
1TB backup drive
Win7 64-bit OS
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01/26/2010 06:26:08 PM · #9 |
You didn't mention your budget, and of course, that's important.
I've had a number of machines built, but now I tend to buy online at Dell, Gateway, or HP because you can still customize a great machine, and you save money.
My last machine was an HP and it's great. You also get a nice software bundle for video editing and CD burning which otherwise isn't included in a custom built machine such as yours. Plus the OS is priced in.
But my advice in selection, especially if you keep a machine for more than two years (I only keep them for 2):
1) Buy as much memory as you can afford, and make sure your motherboard can handle MORE than 8GB for future expansion. I have 6 GB and I constantly hit a perfomance ceiling with Lightroom and PS CS4 together (along with Firefox and whatever else I'm running). Sometimes, CS4 doesn't even launch from LR because between LR, Firefox, email, and other overhead apps, there's just not enough memory! (Of course, part of this is Firefox, and maybe LR using more memory in systems that have more memory, so to some extent, it's a vicious cycle!)
2) Consider carefully the case you are buying...is it quiet? Does it open easily for adding components; how many hard drives will it accommodate (nothing beats the speed of an internal hard drive). Does it provide adequate cooling (without excessive noise)?
3) USB ports front and back; The HP has a nice set of memory card slots in front as well, though at least my version doesn't handle the 4GB and up SDs so I still need to use a USB adapter. Also, a firewire port (or two) is essential if your planning to capture video (and it is good for external drives too). But definitely don't count on expansion with external USB drives--they are so slow compared to internal drives.
4) Personally, I recommend a 64 bit OS. Other than PDFs not displaying thumbnails in Explorer, since Adobe hasn't supplied the necessary plugin for 64 bit, I haven't had any problems. (You can still run 32 bit apps--for example, I run 32 bit CS4, since a lot of the filters I have don't work in CS4-64). The best thing about Vista and Windows 7 is defintitely 64 bit performance!
5) For backup, buy a USB or firewire SATA dock (around $35) and then you can use bare drives for backup media. Very inexpensive, and convenient to use and store (compared to external USB drives with their own power supply)
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01/26/2010 07:00:35 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
-What version of Windows does it come with? For best compatibility, I'd suggest 32 bit Windows7. Myself and some others have 64 bit Win7 and it still has some issues due to lack of 64 bit support for some software and hardware.
-A terabyte hard disk is plenty, but I would recommend having two physical hard disks instead of just one. A smaller one for the OS and applications, and the larger one for your files. If a hard drive fails, you have halved the damage. |
Thanks for the suggestions about Windows. The place I looked is actually almost a store within a store, and he doesn’t supply the operating system, so I would buy that from the main shop and would get to choose which one I want. If there are compatibility issues with 64 bit, I will certainly avoid it. When I asked about an extra hard-drive the guy said that the hard-drive could be partitioned. Would that help if there were problems? If I got 2 separate hard-drives how would that affect the way in which I use the machine?
Originally posted by kirbic:
Sounds like a machine with pretty solid specs, although "Q6600" is not a valid Intel processor designation, so I question what they are really including. Personally, I would go with a dual core E8500. Less power, a little higher clock speed for the same money. Only highly parallel tasks will benefit from the two additional cores.
4GB of memory is plenty; actually you'll only be able to use between 3 and 3.5GB with a 32-bit OS. If you load a 64-bit OS instead, you can add RAM to your heart's content.
The 8800GT graphics card is a mainstream card tailored to gaming, and in some respects is far more than you need for photography work. My preference is a workstation type card, like the nvidia Quadro FX 570, which at this point might be a little cheaper than the 8800, and draws only a small fraction of the power. |
I will find out about the dual core processor you suggest. I have been seriously considering upgrading to a Canon 7D and have also looked at a video camera, which required a minimum processor speed of 3.0 Ghz. I couldn’t get the actual speed of the suggested processor out of the guy who served me (his home language isn’t English, so maybe he didn’t understand what I was asking). I’ve just Googled Q6600 and have found it on the Intel site here:
//www.intel.com/products/processor/core2quad/specifications.htm
It seems it’s only 2.4 Ghz, which might be a problem if I do go for video. It looks like the E8500 is quite a bit faster. (I don’t know what Dual Core he would have suggested. Quad Core was my suggestion as I believed that was the better option.) But so far most of the machines I’ve seen in shops or seen advertised have been around the 2.4 to 2.6 Ghz mark.
The graphics card you mentioned sounds interesting too. Does the fact that I may want to do video make any difference to the choice?
I suppose that I should mention that at this stage I’m not committed to buying from this shop. I plan to look around first and see what else is available (ready made up). The case he said he would use is a make called AOpen (which I’ve never heard of). I don’t know if it’s relevant when he’s making up the computer, and I don’t know whether I would be better off going for a brand I’ve actually heard of. My current computer is Fujitsu and I’ve never really liked it, though I don’t know how much of the problem is the machine and how much is Windows XP.
I’m very grateful for all the suggestions. I just hope that the components suggested are available here.
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01/26/2010 07:12:37 PM · #11 |
 nshapiro you've certainly given me some extra things to think about. I am planning to look at our local HP shop as well. I have also looked at Dell online, but the specs I was looking at were much higher and the price was really frightening. I'll have another look there to see how the price compares for an equivalent machine to what I'm looking at with some of the suggestions here.
I haven't worked out my exact budget yet - I'll see what's available within a price range that seems reasonable, but I wouldn't like to go too much higher than the price this guy quoted me. I can tell you one thing though, whatever I buy will be a lot more expensive in South Africa than it would be in America. That's a problem I have to live with. |
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01/26/2010 07:39:50 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
When I asked about an extra hard-drive the guy said that the hard-drive could be partitioned. Would that help if there were problems? If I got 2 separate hard-drives how would that affect the way in which I use the machine? |
Partitioning is dividing a single physical drive up into multiple drives. I have my boot drive partitioned. One partion has Windows Vista, one has Windows 7, and some extra space for something else if I want it later. This is convenient for keeping things separate, but will not protect you any from a catastrophic hard disk failure. For normal day to day usage both will appear to you as two drives. Separate drives may also offer some speed of access advantage, but the real reason is to limit the potential damage from a drive failure.
My own terabyte drive failed a couple of months back. This was the data drive that had all my files, including photos on it. Since I had separate physical drives, I could still boot my computer and use all my applications. If it had been the boot drive that had failed instead, then at least my files would be intact. By having two drives, I halved the damage and inconvenience that the failure caused. As it was, I had a recent backup and most of my recent photo shoots were still on the CF cards. I didn't lose much. If both the OS and data had been on separate partitions of the same physical drive, I would have lost both my files and operating system. The second disk drive was well worth the $50 I paid for it.
I see Neil has suggested the 64 bit version of Win7. The memory limitation issue is a biggie and the reason we are rapidly moving to 64 bit as the standard. My experience with 64 bit has not been bad at all. I like it a lot, however it will have more compatibility issues, which will go away over time as software and hardware makers support it better.
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 19:42:01. |
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01/26/2010 08:11:14 PM · #13 |
You are already getting a lot of good advice on the technical side so let me just stress the importance of warranties and level of customer service a company will give you.
If you do go with any major brand - Dell for instance - be aware of the level of service you will get *IF* problems should develop.
I am now back on our old Dell machine that we bought 6 years ago - through the business end. We are supposed to be on our new computer that we bought from Dell LESS than a year ago (yes, we have a 3 year warranty and foolishly did not buy it from the business end).
We experienced a failure in the power supply unit and motherboard 3 months ago. Getting parts and talking with customer service was a real *joy* (I say that sarcastically) It took them 3 weeks to send us the parts when they promised us it will be fixed and done in 1 week.
My husband and I are now waiting for the service technician to install a new video card in the new machine that failed last week. My husband is much more computer literate so he was able to troubleshoot from the error messages what the problem was while the CS Tech at Dell Support insisted it was a problem with the Hard Drive and they needed to install a new one and that denying that part is not an option - my husband spoke with his manager.
I have spoken to many people/friends/family since and even the english speaking Technician that was here the first time - that if you buy Dell and want better service order it through the business end.
I am sure that every major brand has complaints on service/level of service so I would highly recommend getting a warranty *just in case*. |
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01/26/2010 09:01:45 PM · #14 |
Also, if you go with HP or Dell, I recommend buying the top end not the bottom end. They are still inexpensive, but the components, the case, and the motherboard are all typically much better.
Here's a recent model, high end HP. $1149. I don't know how that translates to buying where you are, but
it will give you some idea how I would configure it. (By the way, I highly recommend adding the HD tuner for $50 more...Windows Media center makes a great DVR and it's great to be able to catch a show while working on pics!
HP Pavilion Elite HPE-180t PC
AZ222AV#ABA
* Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
* Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 quad-core processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3 cache]
* 8GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
* FREE UPGRADE! 1TB 5400 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 750GB
* 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
* LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
* Integrated 10/100/1000 (Gigabit) Ethernet, No wireless LAN
* 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
* No TV Tuner
* Integrated 7.1 channel sound with front audio ports
* No speakers
* HP multimedia keyboard and HP optical mouse
* Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
* FREE UPGRADE! Norton Internet Security(TM) 2010 - 3 year from 2 year
* HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
ETA - I added 3 years Norton Internet Security for only $30 extra. I really like Norton; the latest versions are fast,especially compared to all the freebies I have--it scans my computer without ever bothering me, and it's always done in the morning when I start (whereas AVG was still scanning and bugged me).
Message edited by author 2010-01-26 21:04:56.
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01/26/2010 09:12:35 PM · #15 |
| I second the suggestion directly above me. Though I'd go for Dell instead if it's at a similar price. |
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01/27/2010 04:49:55 AM · #16 |
| I will have a look at HP. That price didn't sound too bad IN DOLLARS. If it was a straight currency conversion it would be fine, but I'm sure it will work out MUCH more expensive here. As far as Dell is concerned, I may have a problem. The shop I went to yesterday was one of the few places locally that is listed as stocking Dell, however they only keep laptops. I'm not sure where the others are or what they've got. |
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01/27/2010 03:41:06 PM · #17 |
A quad-core processor is the way to go for video. Adobe Premier will make use of all cores (at least up to 8 cores).
PS and other Adobe products may start to use multiple cores also. But PS uses the graphics card GPU, so that's probably more of a performance improvement than multiple cores. A better graphics card will have a better GPU capability.
Definitely go for a 64 bit OS--the extra memory really speeds up your system because you don't have to swap out to disk as much. DDR2 is cheap and getting cheaper (DDR3 isn't much more money), get at least 4GB now and add more later, but be aware that you may have to discard the initial memory if its not compatible with what you buy later.
DDR3 is significantly faster than DDR2, and doesn't cost much more, and an i7 920 is a pretty popular CPU. Go with those if at all possible. Check out //www.shareyourscore.com/ and //www.cpubenchmark.net/
Two drives speed things up, especially if you put the swap space on the non-system drive. And you can get a fast drive for the system (C:) drive, Solid state drives are fastest, and a Velociraptor (10,000 RPM) is affordable.
Don't get a 5400RPM drive, they're too slow. And some 7200RPM drives slow down to 5400 (e.g. Western Digital "green" drives).
Here's a Dell for a little more than the HP (its $1218.00)
Studio XPS 9000, Intel Core i7-920 processor (8MB L3 Cache 2.66GHz)
8GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz
Dell Consumer Multimedia Keyboard
Dell 22 inch ST2210 Widescreen Flat Panel
1024MB nVidia GeForce GT220
1TB Serial ATA 2 Hard Drive 7200 RPM
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
Dell USB 6-Button Laser Mouse
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
2 Year Limited Warranty
integrated audio, 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Basically the same as the HP system, except no memory card reader (buy you can get one from Dell) The Dell includes a 22 inch Widescreen LCD monitor and the hard disk is 7200RPM.
Message edited by author 2010-01-27 15:43:17.
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01/27/2010 06:14:40 PM · #18 |
This is getting quite confusing. One thing I've noticed is that on some components he has given me very little information.
I'm trying to work through the South African Dell site to see if I can get some idea of prices for the suggested system. I think it's going to work out pretty expensive though. I'll give more information as I find it. |
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01/27/2010 08:02:30 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by hankk:
Here's a Dell for a little more than the HP (its $1218.00)
Studio XPS 9000, Intel Core i7-920 processor (8MB L3 Cache 2.66GHz)
8GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz
Dell Consumer Multimedia Keyboard
Dell 22 inch ST2210 Widescreen Flat Panel
1024MB nVidia GeForce GT220
1TB Serial ATA 2 Hard Drive 7200 RPM
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
Dell USB 6-Button Laser Mouse
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
2 Year Limited Warranty
integrated audio, 10/100/1000 Ethernet
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Okay the closest I could get to this:
Dell Studio XPS, Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 920 (2.66GHz, 8MB cache, 4.8GT/sec)
8192MB (4x1024,2x2048) 1067MHz DDR3 Dual Channel
512MB ATI® Radeon® 4850 Graphics card (the only option listed)
1 TB (2x 500 GB) Serial ATA (7200 Rpm) Dual HDD Config Raid 0 Stripe
keyboard, mouse and DVD drive similar to yours
NO MONITOR - I'm happy with what I've got
Converted to US $3229-
Well that's a lot more than I want to spend. |
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01/27/2010 08:20:51 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Converted to US $3229- |
*Whew* Yes, way too much. You should be able to put together a good system for well under $1000 US. Prices are certainly different where you are, but 3 grand + is way too much.
I build my own systems, which is not for everybody. When I choose my components, I tend to stay about 18 months behind the leading (and expensive) edge. I find that gives me the most bang for the buck and plenty of life expectancy. |
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01/27/2010 08:29:21 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Converted to US $3229-
Well that's a lot more than I want to spend. |
OUCH!
While the specs of that system are very nice, the price just about made my heart stop. If I were building a system with those specifications today, including the same CPU, graphics card, memory, etc., I *know* I could do it for under half of that.
One thing I noticed is that the main hard drive is configured as a RAID 0 array, which is fine and good, but that requires a strong backup strategy, because the risk of drive failure is doubled. I do run a raid 0 array as my primary drive, but it is two smaller drives with my main data drive as a physically separate drive, and then a third drive to back up to. |
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01/27/2010 08:47:58 PM · #22 |
I don't understand all the information about the hard-drives, but one thing I noticed with some of the machines was that the listing for second hard-drives over about 160GB were for removable drives and worked out much more expensive than the first one. On some of the cheaper machines they offered the option of 2 * 500GB hard-drives at a more reasonable price.
I have made a note of specifications for some of the cheaper machines and will go through them when I have more time. However even those close to the earlier mentioned specifications come out at over US $1000-. One can get computers here for well under $1000-, but their specifications just aren't good enough for what I need. |
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01/27/2010 09:25:02 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
On some of the cheaper machines they offered the option of 2 * 500GB hard-drives at a more reasonable price |
Additional hard disks are very easy to install. Perhaps the dual 500's would be a good option and you can add a larger drive when you need it. As long as there is room in the case for it. My case is designed with the drive bays opening to the side, so popping an additional disk in is simple.
On a similar note, have you considered perhaps building your own system? As I said, it's not for everyone, but thought I would throw the idea out there.
Message edited by author 2010-01-27 21:27:54. |
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01/28/2010 06:38:35 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
On a similar note, have you considered perhaps building your own system? As I said, it's not for everyone, but thought I would throw the idea out there. |
I don't really think that's for me. I once added memory to the machine that I'm currently using and it started misbehaving. I managed to get it running again using the restore disk and it's never been back to the shop since the day I bought it, but I think I'd better stay away from DIY on my computer after that.
I've been trying to find machines that have dual 500's or the like but some of the Dell machines I saw mentioned online don't seem to offer that option. I noticed that the larger the case the more options there are for hard-drives, but if at all possible I'd like a machine that doesn't take too much space. Some of the small cases seem to offer fairly decent set-ups, but not dual hard-drives. If I find something small that fits my requirements and isn't too pricey, I may just have to live with a single hard-drive. |
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01/31/2010 06:57:52 AM · #25 |
Just a couple of new questions.
I went to the Hewlett Packard shop on Friday. Almost all their computers are laptops, but there was one desktop that came close to meeting my requirements. However the hard-drive was only 5400 rpm and I was told that I am going to have difficulty finding one that is 7200 rpm.
As far as video is concerned, the camera that I looked had a minimum speed requirement of 3.0 GHZ. The computer I saw was a quad core with a speed of 2.33 GHZ. The guy said that the 3.0 GHZ requirement was only if the machine was single core. Is this correct?
Oh, I nearly forgot. The computer has a single hard-drive, but I was told that partitioning it would limit the damage if something went wrong. This goes against what I have been told here, but if I want to buy a ready computer in a known make, as opposed to the earlier machine, which is made to order but an unknown make, I will have to take what I can get.
I'm still undecided which way I'm going to go, and will still look around elsewhere, but these are important considerations for whatever I look at.
Message edited by author 2010-01-31 07:14:32.
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