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06/02/2004 10:00:27 AM · #1 |
I wasn't sure how my "Sun, Moon, Star" would be recieved, since in involved Tarot cards.
I figured some of the devout Christians on the group would feel obliged to vote 1 because of the subject. (and, it seems that they did)
This got me thinking about the added challenge of including religiously charged imagery. Sure, there are some people who would give high votes to something just because of the subject (after all, who wants to vote low on Jesus, even if he is out of focus)
But you would also have people who would vote low if they thought you were not treating the subject with respect. ("How dare you display Jesus out of focus!")
So, I try to judge religious images on their merit, but also whether they are real expressions of faith, or just a bid for higher votes from the content.
For example, I am not going to be impressed by a photo of the Bible, just because it is a Bible. I will want to see it in focus, well exposed, carefully composed, and to the challenge.
There is a lovely example of how to do it right in the multiple light sources challenge. (I think it is called "Light from within") Even though I am not Christian, I gave this one a high vote, because it is not only a good photo, it
is a well expressed image of the photographer's faith. I can respect that.
So, I was wondering how other people felt about religious content in images. (Tarot cards are not a religous image, but they are "religiously charged" for many people)
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06/02/2004 10:04:55 AM · #2 |
| How do you know any christians voted your shot low? No one left a comment that said they were christian and they voted you low because of the religiously charged subject. |
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06/02/2004 10:24:42 AM · #3 |
You think Christian's are the only ones who think what you believe is false?
I think the photo was placed right. It lacks the "wow" factor for me. I also don't see multiple lights in the photo, unless you are talking about the cards and for me that doesn't meet the challenge.
I know it can be discouraging, but keep shooting. If you want a ribbon, remember to take a photo that pleases the voters. :-)
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06/02/2004 10:45:02 AM · #4 |
| I think Christians vote honestly as to what we see in a photo. I think there are folks that do vote against photos they may not agree with politically or that may be religious. Especially US Flags. I didn't vote this challenge, but would have voted for the shot, not the symbol of choice. |
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06/02/2004 10:45:24 AM · #5 |
| I think your use of "multiple light sources" was clever, but I think there would have been quite a few voters quickly browsing through who did not notice, and assumed the photo had nothing to do with the challenge. I think it would have been quite rude of someone to vote on a photo contest based on religious beliefs. |
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06/02/2004 11:00:04 AM · #6 |
I think you may be coming to conclusion too quickly.
I don't think it has to do with the religious back ground of a voter as to how your image got voted on.
That would be very similar to submitting a photo of a cat and blaming all the dog lovers for voting your photo low.
I NEVER use my personal religious beliefs, political views, favoritisms over one subject Vs. another subject to determine my vote.
The photo must speak for its self, if its a bad photo it gets what it deserves, if its a great photo it also get what it deserves.
I think many on the site feel the same way
James
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06/02/2004 11:11:19 AM · #7 |
Hmmmm, so you are assuming that since you got 9 1's, they must be from christians?
I think it lays in the picture, it was good, but some people just might not have liked it, I have been mad at people before for voting low on something I liked, but I never pointed out certain groups because of my frustration.
I voted it a 6, im catholic, it has nothing to do with my religion, it didnt even cross my mind, but the picture didnt wow me. Sorry. |
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06/02/2004 11:22:11 AM · #8 |
Hi Hanna...
IMHO, I think that the technical aspects of the picture had more to do with the voting than religion. Personally, I was wishing for better use of the crystal ball...it was dark in the corner, and the light could have been really used well through and around the crystal with all its reflective and transluscent properties. Maybe a different background, angle, or placement of the ball in the shot could have helped (and I'm just throwing out ideas here). I thought it was good, in focus, and represented multiple light sources, but it had potential to be better. I scored it a 5. Religion never really crossed my mind. Keep on clicking...and be happy what you do no matter what others think about it, because in the end, that's all that matters! :o)
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06/02/2004 12:08:10 PM · #9 |
I didn't vote, but I wouldn't have given it a one based on subject matter alone (it has to be technically really really really bad and have absolutely no connection to the challenge in any form or fashion to warrant that). Likewise, I don't give a ten to a shot just because it "promotes" or positively represents my faith.
There are a lot of pictures that I have found objectionable, but I try to be rational and "grade" it on its individual merits. Also, as a site council member, I have wanted to dq a picture on its "offendedness" to me, but that is not my option. I have to be fair and unbiased when dealing with those, and I use the same standard in my general voting.
You are welcome to believe that only Christians gave you a one, but I seriously don't think that was it.
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06/02/2004 12:25:58 PM · #10 |
As other people suggested, I think it's more that people didnt see multiple light sources and just a 'clever' interpretation that didnt really address the challenge topic. I read the tarot and although I didnt give it a one I also didnt score it very high either. It is possible that religious images receive high scores based on the message they give, but additionally, they likely receive low scores from people who do not like the message they give.
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06/02/2004 12:34:05 PM · #11 |
| suffering for the religion, isnt that worth everything? |
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06/02/2004 12:39:38 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by hannafate:
I wasn't sure how my "Sun, Moon, Star" would be recieved, since in involved Tarot cards.
I figured some of the devout Christians on the group would feel obliged to vote 1 because of the subject. (and, it seems that they did).... |
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion, how do you know that "devout christians" voted you down???? Religion was the furthest thing away from my mind when I saw that picture. I voted it a 2 because it did not show the use of multiple light sources, and I did not vote it a 1 because I liked the colours.
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06/02/2004 12:40:16 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by moodville:
... but additionally, they likely receive low scores from people who do not like the message they give. |
Very true. This photo (opposites challenge) got 17 comments within one day, most of which were extremely positive. Several 9s and 10s, yet the overall score was around 5. The next day it was disqualified (date in camera said 1/1/1980). Apparently people either loved it or hated it. I think the two extremes tend to cancel each other out in the voting.
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06/02/2004 01:10:06 PM · #14 |
based on your reasoning the 4 tens you recieved must have come from devout tarot card readers, or miss cleo voting 4 times.
Message edited by author 2004-06-02 13:10:22. |
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06/02/2004 02:11:57 PM · #15 |
| I would have voted it low because it doesn't meet the challenge (multiple light sources are not obvious and are not a key factor to the shot). |
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06/02/2004 02:26:53 PM · #16 |
Abstract interpretations are always risky (as if there's life and death in the balance with these challenges), and especially when the challenge topic deals with a photographic technique. Now, if you had employed an obvious literal use of three light sources, each illuminating (or maybe somehow eminating from) the three abstract light sources (sun, moon, stars), then you probably would have hit a home run. The technique would have gotten you through the initial judgement, and the abstract concept would have grabbed enough people to give you a real boost.
As far as voting down something on religious grounds: I have voted a few photos lower that blatantly attacked christianity, but still gave some merit for photographic quality. I've never voted anyone down for presenting a representation of their faith or beliefs. (Though, I suppose you could find some grey area between those two possitions...) |
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06/02/2004 08:41:37 PM · #17 |
I wasn't complaining about the voting.
I realize that all the work I went to to get that starburst in the middle isn't obvious.
I know where *some* of the 1's came from from private e-mails.
I was just wondering how others on this site felt about such things.
That's all.
Like I said, I wasn't sure how the image would go over. That's part of what the challenges are about, trying different things.
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06/02/2004 09:48:49 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by hannafate:
I wasn't sure how my "Sun, Moon, Star" would be recieved, since in involved Tarot cards.
I figured some of the devout Christians on the group would feel obliged to vote 1 because of the subject. (and, it seems that they did) |
From the comments you received it looks like several people liked your photo. I certainly did, although I didn’t give it really high score. I felt that it didn’t show the use of multiple light sources well enough to deserve an exceptionally high score. The use of multiple light sources was a little too subtle I guess.
As for the religious thing, very few people can be totally impartial about anything, but I doubt that that had much to do with it.
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06/02/2004 10:41:08 PM · #19 |
I believe Hanna has brought up an interesting point: the sensitivity involved with presenting religious symbols, particularly those that are presented and/or rendered in a manner which cannot be considered merely 'exotic' or 'incidental'.
As far as my own voting is concerned, I have and will continue to award 1's to entries representing religious symbols and subjects in a predominantly evangelical manner. If the dominant subject of the photo is portrayed without any easily discernible evangelical undertones, I'd go on to to consider the image like any other.
Featured religious symbols, especially familiar Christian paraphernalia, without the support of a prolifererating aesthetic I'd also likely vote low, unless a photographer can perceivably demonstrate an appropiate stance either toward the object in its familiar context or a controversy raised by the image itself.
Message edited by author 2004-06-02 22:42:57.
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06/02/2004 11:19:35 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I believe Hanna has brought up an interesting point: the sensitivity involved with presenting religious symbols, particularly those that are presented and/or rendered in a manner which cannot be considered merely 'exotic' or 'incidental'.
As far as my own voting is concerned, I have and will continue to award 1's to entries representing religious symbols and subjects in a predominantly evangelical manner. If the dominant subject of the photo is portrayed without any easily discernible evangelical undertones, I'd go on to to consider the image like any other.
Featured religious symbols, especially familiar Christian paraphernalia, without the support of a prolifererating aesthetic I'd also likely vote low, unless a photographer can perceivably demonstrate an appropiate stance either toward the object in its familiar context or a controversy raised by the image itself. |
Which is entirely your right.
I suppose we can just point to this post the next time someone wonders if it is the Christians that vote "disagreeable" topics low. :-P
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06/02/2004 11:25:03 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Featured religious symbols, especially familiar Christian paraphernalia, without the support of a prolifererating aesthetic I'd also likely vote low, unless a photographer can perceivably demonstrate an appropiate stance either toward the object in its familiar context or a controversy raised by the image itself. |
I like to substitute {any subject} in the place of {featured religious symbols, without the support of a proliferating aesthetic} in this statement. I would also substitute {specific interest} in the place of {controversy}.
This is the basic stance I take on any photograph. Show me a photograph of a flower. If you do, please demonstrate what it is about this flower that intrigued you enough to make a photo of it. |
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06/02/2004 11:31:51 PM · #22 |
Dude, your shot was of cards. Religious or otherwise, it ain't all that exciting. Not sure exactly what I voted but it couldnt have been higher than a 5.
Lots of folks here shoot religious stuff of a variety of subjects. If the shots has appeal it does well despite what the voters feels about the particular religion being expressed. I mean the voodoo shot did pretty well in the multiple light sources challenge. What did the Christians do for that one?
As it turns out, we (read: I) try to find many reasons as to why our shots do not do well or why folks voted it low. What mattters is that you liked it. If it pleased you, what is there to discuss.
Tired. Hope this didnt sound snotty. if so, accept my apologies or just ignore.
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06/02/2004 11:33:55 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by karmat:
...I suppose we can just point to this post the next time someone wonders if it is the Christians that vote "disagreeable" topics low. :-P |
Just point to Zeus. He's off with a handful of his shaman friends at a Buddhist retreat. ;-)
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06/02/2004 11:42:19 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Show me a photograph of a flower. If you do, please demonstrate what it is about this flower that intrigued you enough to make a photo of it. |
Well said, I would much rather see an unpolitical and unreligous picture, and don't like it when the photo is meant to push an agenda regardless of whether or not I agree with it, unless the challenge topic requires it.
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06/02/2004 11:45:09 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Show me a photograph of a flower. If you do, please demonstrate what it is about this flower that intrigued you enough to make a photo of it. |
Well said, I would much rather see an unpolitical and unreligous picture, and don't like it when the photo is meant to push an agenda regardless of whether or not I agree with it, unless the challenge topic requires it. |
I like any photo that inspires me, regardless of the subject. I haven't seen too many photos around DPC where I thought some agenda was being pushed and I don't see that in the photo in question in this thread either. |
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