Need a new computer, HELP!!! - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/10/2009 07:44:49 PM · #1

I am tooooooooootally useless when it comes to buying computer thingys. So I need some help, or basically, someone telling me "this is what you should get" I was going to get a laptop again, but thinking that a desktop might be better.

I have $1500 to spend, if I end up with a desktop then monitor will be extra.

So I don't need all that Microsoft crap , like Word and stuff. I only use Mail and Photoshop on my Laptop.

I need Ram stuff and video card thingys and memories and whatever I need to run a fast Photoshop and all the appendages that go with it. Something that is wireless, is fast and wont hang or crash after 2 mins., I edit photographs and use the internet. I have had a Gateway, a Toshiba and a Dell before. Don,t care who makes it, but I want a decent one that is not going to be outdated in two years.

So any techys up for the challenge of finding me all these thingys and telling me what to get.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

12/10/2009 08:12:13 PM · #2

I'll start the ball rolling...

Quad core - AMD or Intel but I think Intel has the edge on performance right now
6gb or more of RAM - lots of makes out there. look for specials on OCZ, Kingston, Corsair, Trancend etc
1tb of hard disk space - add another for backup if you like or buy an external hard disk drive of the same size. I use Western Digital hard drives and haven't had a failure in years. Very trustworthy imo.
video card - you don't need a top of the line card for PS and other imaging software so don't let the salesperson sell you one, you don't game or do video, unless you plan to. ATI or nVidia are the two main producers of video cards but there are many independant makers who modify those cards and sometimes you can get a good deal on a very good card.

As for a monitor, that's more personal a choice I find. If you want professional quality you'll need to look at LaCie, NEC Spectraview, or maybe an Apple display.

My specs

Intel i7 920 Quad Core
6GB RAM
3x 1TB HDD + 1.5TB external drives
ATI 4800 1GB Radeon video card
Cosair 650 watt power supply
Antec tower

Total was approximately 1500 CDN.

ETA. I didn't mention a brand name because I build mine from scratch but you can find similar hardware in computers like Dell, HP, Compact etc.

Message edited by author 2009-12-10 20:15:23.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/10/2009 08:59:51 PM · #3

PROCESSOR Intel® Core� 2 Quad processor Q9650 (12MB L2, 3.00GHz, 1333FSB) edit

OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English edit

PRODUCTIVITY Microsoft Works 9.0 edit
SECURITY McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months edit

MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4DIMMs edit

HARD DRIVE DataSafe 640GB Secured Storage and Data Recovery Solution edit

OPTICAL DRIVE 16X DVD+/-RW Drive edit
MONITOR 20" Dell ST2010-Black High Definition Monitor edit

VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB edit

SOUND Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio edit

KEYBOARD & MOUSE Dell Consumer Multimedia Keyboard and Laser Mouse edit
MODEM No Modem Option

So do you think that this is like yours? I tried to copy as much as I could

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

12/10/2009 09:32:37 PM · #4

I was most of they way through typing a response and then the computer decided to reboot to install updates. %$!@#&*!

Processor: speed is a more important consideration than multiple cores. Multiple cores are nice, but not all apps can take advantage of them. speed will benefit everything. I like AMD and unless you are looking at the bleeding edge, AMD gives a lot of bang for the buck. Intel vs AMD can get as bad as Canon vs Nikon. Both are good. Yot 3Ghz quad core sounds like a good choice.

Storage. Two hard drives. A smaller one for OS and applications, and a second one of at least a terabyte for files. I have a 350Gb drive for booting and apps, and a 1 Terabyte drive for my files. You will find those 15 Megapixel RAW files will fill that 640 Gig drive before yo know it.

Two monitors, you can use a cheaper one if you want as a secondary display. Gives extra real estate to park all your tool palletes on and keep other stuff visible. Flat panels have gotten really cheap.

OS: 64 bit. The move to 64 bit is on. No reason to not go that way now. Drivers and software support are there for most products.

Productivity: MS works is an advertising-laden freebie these days. Dump it and install Open Office, which is a free open-source counterpart to MS Office. I use it and it works quite well. It reads and writes the popular MS file types. DOC, XLS, PPT.

Security: I like AVG antivirus, which has a free version that works nicely. Microsoft also has some free anti malware apps you can install as well. Macaffee has a reputation as bloatware lately, and you have to hassle with renewing your subscription periodically if you want updates.

Memory: DDR2 is fine, though most new systems are now coming with DDR3. You can possibly get one with DDR3 for only a bit more, but DDR2 is still plenty good, especially if it comes with a nice discount.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

12/10/2009 10:48:35 PM · #5

Originally posted by JulietNN:

Nice. A few things though. Your RAM at 8gb means you're thinking of using all 4 slots on your motherboard, that may be wrong depending on your board. Most use triple channel memory slots therefore you'll be needing only 3 DIMMs of triple channel memory. Get more info.

Your hard drive is unknown to me. I would get two drives for backup reasons. You don't want your images on only one drive. Unless you're going to backup everything on DVD right away.

Your monitor is 159 dollars. Dell has the 23 inch model on sale for 169.

Rest looks ok to me. Wait for the real gurus to come in tomorrow morning, I'm sure you'll get lots more info then. I bought my system about 6 months ago and I'm not in the loop for the more current info on hardware.

Oh and post your final specs before buying. If you're not sure ask here or pm me if you want.

Message edited by author 2009-12-10 22:49:39.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

12/10/2009 10:54:56 PM · #6

Asus laptop might do the trick for you. It's all tricked out with an i7 processor & is marketed as a gaming laptop, which would mean you would like it for photography. And it's at your price point, too.

digitald00d

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

12/11/2009 12:01:08 AM · #7

MS, MS, MS, blah, blah....sorry, but there are other worlds out there.

Do what I did, dump Microsoft. I did and I\'ve never been happier. You want to deal with your photography and not worry about the machines. Go with Apple. Check out what most pro photographers and graphic artists use. There\'s a reason.

Start with a Mac Mini. Add a screen, keyboard, mouse, an external drive for backups. You\'re done and ready to go.

Macs come with iLife (fun things) which includes iPhoto (photography/editing), iMovie (make/edit Movies), GarageBand (make/edit music), iDVD (burn DVD\'s of your work when your\'re done). You say you don\'t want the Microsoft crap...good...it doesn\'t come with it. If you want and need MS, there\'s iWork, which you can buy. Or do what I did, and what someone else suggested, and download OpenOffice (from Sun) for free and work away.

The Mac backups are done with what they call \"Time Machine\" which is included. Hook an external USB, Firewire drive, Drobo (www.stuckincustoms.com for review), or similar hard disk. Tell Time Machine to use it...done. Works flawlessly. My pics always get backed up whenever I load onto computer from the camera flash...AUTOMAGICALLY.

Virus protection? Not needed. Macs Operating System (OsX) is designed on top of BSD which is secure by design.

So, just to let you know I\'m not an Apple evangelist and MS basher, here\'s my stuff and what I do....

electronics/network engineer by trade (professional photographer in my dreams)
at work I use MS XP, Ubuntu Linux, Redhat Linux, and CentOS.
at home I use iMac 24, Macbook (spouse\'s), Dell 9300 that dual-boots XP or Ubuntu Linux, and an Ubuntu Server (for goofing).
on the iMac 24 I use iLife, Lightroom 2.0, PS4

The Mac mini is a great way to get started in Apple\'s world. I think they run a little over $600USD and are very small. Wireless, USB, Firewire, all build in a little box.

The Apple world is a little higher priced, but sometimes, like cameras and glass, you get what you pay for. I don\'t regret losing the reboots, lockups, malware, and virus worries that went with MS.

BONUS....check out ebay...Apple holds is price with time.

Hope this helps.

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 00:04:57.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

12/11/2009 12:19:54 AM · #8

Originally posted by digitald00d:

blah, blah....sorry, but there are other worlds out there.

Exactly what the "get a Mac" crowd needs to learn. If you really want some credibility and to have a real computer, then Linux (or some flavor of *nix) is the only way to completely dump the overhyped, under performing products of large corporations like Apple and MS. (And before I am corrected, I am well aware that OSX runs on top of a modified core of BSD Unix.)

As far as security goes, the main reason Mac is safer right now is that it is a lesser target, but that is changing. Don't be complacent.

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 00:22:28.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

12/11/2009 03:34:52 AM · #9

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by digitald00d:
blah, blah....sorry, but there are other worlds out there.

Exactly what the "get a Mac" crowd needs to learn. If you really want some credibility and to have a real computer, then Linux (or some flavor of *nix) is the only way to completely dump the overhyped, under performing products of large corporations like Apple and MS. (And before I am corrected, I am well aware that OSX runs on top of a modified core of BSD Unix.)

As far as security goes, the main reason Mac is safer right now is that it is a lesser target, but that is changing. Don't be complacent.

Did you also know that with a Mac you can run that BSD unix with X-windows (or with a command-line terminal) instead of the typical OS-X Aqua interface?

12/11/2009 04:07:21 AM · #10

Here's what I have to say. Probably the best thing I've said all year! :P

12/11/2009 05:54:50 AM · #11

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by digitald00d:
blah, blah....sorry, but there are other worlds out there.

Exactly what the "get a Mac" crowd needs to learn. If you really want some credibility and to have a real computer, then Linux (or some flavor of *nix) is the only way to completely dump the overhyped, under performing products of large corporations like Apple and MS. (And before I am corrected, I am well aware that OSX runs on top of a modified core of BSD Unix.)

As far as security goes, the main reason Mac is safer right now is that it is a lesser target, but that is changing. Don't be complacent.

Did you also know that with a Mac you can run that BSD unix with X-windows (or with a command-line terminal) instead of the typical OS-X Aqua interface?

So? Why pay the extra $500 or so for the brand? If you're really gonna buy a branded computer (not build it yourself), get a Dell, format the hard drive, and install whatever distro of Linux you want.

ETA: To get back on topic... If you know someone who will build you a computer and provide tech support (like me!) and lives close to you (not me), ask them what they could build with $1500 and then compare it with the Dells and Alienwares. Chances are, the builder's computer will be better at that price point. When you go above ~$1200 or so, you go into "premium" territory with branded PCs where the profit margin is insane and they're basically stealing from you.

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 05:59:01.

Canon RF 24-105mm F/4L IS USM

12/11/2009 07:42:46 AM · #12

I should probably add my recommendations:
Processor - Intel Core i7-920. Great quad-core processor that supports DDR3 memory, huge "bang for the buck" at $300. The next higher one (i7-940) is $550.
Memory - 6GB DDR3. A bit expensive, but $150 isn't that bad. Not a huge improvement over DDR2, but when you're spending $1500 on a new PC, I'd say go for the newest-gen stuff. This, the processor above, and the graphics cards below, are part of the lastest generation.
Graphics - ATI Radeon 5770 or ATI Radeon 5850. Both support DirectX 11, which makes them very future-proof. 5770 is about $180, 5850 is about $320. For Photoshop and other non-gaming tasks, the 5770 is more than enough. And it'll play most games on "high"/"very high" settings.
Hard Drives - 1TB Seagate Barracuda HDD (x2). Under $100 each on Newegg, so these are a great deal. If you're buying a branded desktop, a single 1TB hard drive is okay... you can always buy a second one separately.
Operating System - for ease of use, I'd say get Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. Most Linux "distros" still aren't ready for use by us average folk, and Macs cut down on your options big time. Plus, where are you gonna find a Mac with a Radeon 5000 series graphics card?

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 07:43:33.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

12/11/2009 07:51:29 AM · #13

Originally posted by george917:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by digitald00d:
blah, blah....sorry, but there are other worlds out there.

Exactly what the "get a Mac" crowd needs to learn. If you really want some credibility and to have a real computer, then Linux (or some flavor of *nix) is the only way to completely dump the overhyped, under performing products of large corporations like Apple and MS. (And before I am corrected, I am well aware that OSX runs on top of a modified core of BSD Unix.)

As far as security goes, the main reason Mac is safer right now is that it is a lesser target, but that is changing. Don't be complacent.

Did you also know that with a Mac you can run that BSD unix with X-windows (or with a command-line terminal) instead of the typical OS-X Aqua interface?

So? Why pay the extra $500 or so for the brand? If you're really gonna buy a branded computer (not build it yourself), get a Dell, format the hard drive, and install whatever distro of Linux you want.

Umm, for one, because as you mentioned in your subsequent post, "Most Linux "distros" still aren't ready for use by us average folk". And then you go on to mention Win 7 64 bit, which will also run on a Mac, in addition to OSX, or Linux, or the BSD core or whatever OS tickles your fancy that day. Then there's the free software and other perks, which make the "extra $500" just another myth.

Tajhad

Canon EOS R

12/11/2009 08:46:23 AM · #14

Actually Juliet
Taking all aside with the "mac versus PC" hype - an imac might be up your alley. A high res 27inch screen, quad core, 1TB (or 2) hard drive, boost to 8G ram - a pretty good OS. Should be fairly current specs for a couple of years. You would probably also appreciate the lack of box, wires and clutter.
Yes - you would definitely get cheaper elsewhere but they are well built, fairly reliable, a beautiful screen (unless you are going to go quite a jump up the monitor scale), and a fairly easy Operating system. Basically - you want to get on with your photo editing - I think the macs are designed for you to really forget about the computer - and just get on with what you are wanting the computer for in the first place.
Anyway - have a peek at them before you dismiss them completely - even at the price.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

12/11/2009 09:00:04 AM · #15

Originally posted by Tajhad:

Typical Apple fanboy hype. ;p

Why is it that only Apple users tout their hardware like it was the only reliable system out there?

I have nothing against Apple or its users but when I read this type of false hype it kind of gets under my skin. PCs are just as reliable as an imac or any other Apple computer. Windows 98 was a long time ago folks, get with the times and realize that PC hardware is as reliable as any system out there. I kept my last PC for six years and you know what, I could have kept it another year or two without any problems. None of the hardware I bought for my last system broke down, not one piece. My son now uses it and he's been doing lots with it, again without a hitch.

Oh and I'm sure Juliette appreciates you Apple people turning this into a fanboy thread. All she wants is to edit her images and have a reliable system under 1500 bucks. Can I buy an Apple one button mouse for that price? lol

12/11/2009 09:07:18 AM · #16

Originally posted by Jac:

All she wants is to edit her images and have a reliable system under 1500 bucks. Can I buy an Apple one button mouse for that price? lol

iMac = $1199. And where did you see an Apple one button mouse?

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

12/11/2009 10:28:09 AM · #17

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by Tajhad:
Actually Juliet
Taking all aside with the "mac versus PC" hype - an imac might be up your alley. A high res 27inch screen, quad core, 1TB (or 2) hard drive, boost to 8G ram - a pretty good OS. Should be fairly current specs for a couple of years. You would probably also appreciate the lack of box, wires and clutter.
Yes - you would definitely get cheaper elsewhere but they are well built, fairly reliable, a beautiful screen (unless you are going to go quite a jump up the monitor scale), and a fairly easy Operating system. Basically - you want to get on with your photo editing - I think the macs are designed for you to really forget about the computer - and just get on with what you are wanting the computer for in the first place.
Anyway - have a peek at them before you dismiss them completely - even at the price.

Typical Apple fanboy hype. ;p

Why is it that only Apple users tout their hardware like it was the only reliable system out there?

I have nothing against Apple or its users but when I read this type of false hype it kind of gets under my skin. PCs are just as reliable as an imac or any other Apple computer. Windows 98 was a long time ago folks, get with the times and realize that PC hardware is as reliable as any system out there. I kept my last PC for six years and you know what, I could have kept it another year or two without any problems. None of the hardware I bought for my last system broke down, not one piece. My son now uses it and he's been doing lots with it, again without a hitch.

Oh and I'm sure Juliette appreciates you Apple people turning this into a fanboy thread. All she wants is to edit her images and have a reliable system under 1500 bucks. Can I buy an Apple one button mouse for that price? lol

I partially agree, some PC hardware combinations are more reliable than they used to be, but there's some real crap out there. You're going to pay for the good stuff and you need an expert (or need to become one) to figure it out. My last PC, one of the highly touted Dell laptops, was absolute crap.

Yeah, Windows ME/98 was a long time ago, but I had plenty of BSOD's under Win 2K and Vista too.

While the MS Windows OS is improving, so is OSX and in terms of usability, Mac had a big head start and maintains the lead.

My advice to the OP is this: If you want to be a computer expert, get a PC, if you want to work on your photos without getting a degree in computer science (or paying someone who does), get a Mac.

Tez

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

12/11/2009 10:35:07 AM · #18

I got this for $1170:

HP HDX 16.

16" HD screen (1920x1080)
6gb ram
500gb 7200rpm HD
1gb video card (don't remember which)
Windows 7 64 bit (professional home or something)
extra big battery

I don't care if you go mac/hp/dell/asus/toshiba... they all do the same thing.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/11/2009 02:50:25 PM · #19

PROCESSOR Intel® Core� 2 Quad processor Q9650 (12MB L2, 3.00GHz, 1333FSB) edit

OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English edit

MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4DIMMs edit

HARD DRIVE 1TB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache� edit

OPTICAL DRIVE 16X DVD+/-RW Drive edit

VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB

Option 2

PROCESSOR Intel® Core� 2 Quad processor Q9650 (12MB L2, 3.00GHz, 1333FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English edit

MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4DIMMs edit
HARD DRIVE 1TB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache� edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 16X DVD+/-RW Drive edit
VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB edit

~~~~~~~~~~~~

So do either of these ones look good to you guys??

12/11/2009 03:10:31 PM · #20

Originally posted by JulietNN:

How are you planning to back up your images? Unless you have something else on hand I would suggest mirroring 2 x 1 TB disks that will be dedicated for images. They aren't terribly expensive.
I would additionally have two smaller disks configured for striping (better performance) for OP system, PS and LR etc. But the latter is 'nice to have' and absolutely not necessary.

ETA: Otherwise it looks like a great system (aren't both options the same - or am I missing something??)

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 15:12:27.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/11/2009 03:48:18 PM · #21

You know I think they are the same now I am looking at them, same place, Dell computers but one is 400 cheaper lol.

and when you 2 smaller disks what does that mean? and it only went up to 1 TB

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

12/11/2009 03:49:00 PM · #22

//configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dddonb4&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=desktops_great_deals

this is it here, can you have a look at it??

please and sooooooo many thank yous

12/11/2009 04:06:25 PM · #23

I'd say go for the next-gen stuff if you have $1500 to spend. Don't buy a Core 2 Quad, get a Core i7; don't buy an nVidia graphics card (unless you're willing to wait 'til the newer ones come out) or any AMD/ATI card other than the Radeon 5000 series; don't buy DDR2 memory, buy DDR3 memory (this goes along with the Core 2 Quad - Core i7).

ETA: The "next-gen" stuff also happens to be better than the old stuff, not just cool gadgets for geeks. The Core i7 has hyperthreading, which makes it able to do 8 things at once rather than 4 like other quad-cores*. Also, the Core i7 supports DDR3; other, older processors don't. The DDR3 memory "baseline" is at 1333 MHz, whereas DDR2 is at about 800 or 1066 MHz... it's mostly because it uses less power; also, it's triple channel rather than dual channel, so there's a slight improvement there as well. The Radeon 5000 series are better than the rest in most situations.

*Although you may not be doing 8 things at once, your computer may. Newer programs really like splitting up a task into parts and doing them in parallel... not sure if Photoshop has this yet, but I know for a fact that movie editing programs do... so image editing shouldn't be far behind (e.g. instead of applying a filter to an image from top to bottom using one thread, split up the image into 4 pieces and apply it to each piece at the same time, then put it back together).

Message edited by author 2009-12-11 16:14:42.

12/11/2009 04:18:08 PM · #24

Originally posted by JulietNN:

//configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dddonb4&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=desktops_great_deals

this is it here, can you have a look at it??

please and sooooooo many thank yous

The slim desktop cuts down on your video card options. I'd go for a mid-tower instead - it's wider and will fit other video cards. Actually, if you can get a mid-tower without a video card (just an integrated graphics chip), you can buy a video card separately, usually for less money. The power supply Dell may give you may not support a super high end graphics card, but even the one they give you may be available for less elsewhere.

The processors available on that one are kind of old, too.