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11/12/2009 11:34:15 PM · #1
I think it would be a good idea to require a comment for scores under 5. A lot of the comments I get are positive and, while reassuring, aren't very helpful. I want to know why someone gave me a low score and what I can do to improve. This might also deter people from giving everyone low scores to bolster their own. Anyone else feel the same?
11/12/2009 11:36:30 PM · #2
I think a lot of people feel the same. Maybe you should put an example here, then you will get some helpfull comments! Good luck!
11/12/2009 11:44:48 PM · #3
It is frustrating, and I try to concentrate my comments on the lower votes I leave. The fantastic entries will already be getting comments. The mediocre ones are left wondering why. Unfortunately, what will happen if there is a requirement, is that people will leave useless comments, or 5 will become the new 2.

Something you can do to help encourage explanatory commenting, is after the challenge, PM the person and let them know that you appreciate that they left an explanation for the low vote. In fact, there is one I need to follow up on right now.

Added: I see I did leave an explanation for my vote of 4 on your tilted entry. I notice that you didn't check any of the "comment was found helpful boxes" for that challenge. When I see none checked off, it suggests to me that the member didn't come back and read their comments. If some are checked and others are not, then I figure the member truly did not appreciate it or find it helpful.

Message edited by author 2009-11-12 23:51:54.
11/12/2009 11:56:48 PM · #4
I think it should be far more profitable to comment on the best pictures than to attempt doctoring the worst. I'm more interested in models of seeing than in embellishing instances of incompetence.
I would, however, not dream of requiring comments as a means to justify a vote. A vote, if then it is one, should be free. Required comments will only reflect the coercive nature of such a requirement. Not many of us will enjoy reading involuntary dribble.

Message edited by author 2009-11-13 00:03:25.
11/12/2009 11:58:12 PM · #5
I give your idea a 4 and I am not going to tell you why.
11/13/2009 12:01:48 AM · #6
Originally posted by smardaz:

I give your idea a 4 and I am not going to tell you why.


In that case, I give your response a 2 because it sucks :D
11/13/2009 12:06:59 AM · #7
Originally posted by zeuszen:

I think it should be far more profitable to comment on the best pictures than to attempt doctoring the worst. I'm more interested in models of seeing than in embellishing instances of incompetence.

Each to his own, of course, but I must disagree. By figuring out what it is that I do and do not like about another entry, I have come away with insight that I have been able to apply to my own photography.
11/13/2009 12:33:53 AM · #8
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by zeuszen:

I think it should be far more profitable to comment on the best pictures than to attempt doctoring the worst. I'm more interested in models of seeing than in embellishing instances of incompetence.

Each to his own, of course, but I must disagree. By figuring out what it is that I do and do not like about another entry, I have come away with insight that I have been able to apply to my own photography.


Let me rephrase to take us back to 2003 or thereabouts when I said in the same context: "Everyone and the kitchen sink (yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here) is concerned with fixing pictures that are beyond fixing, yet little attention is given to the very models of seeing. How can we move forward, if we don't know where to go and look for the force that creates the kind of photograph that doesn't need correction?"
11/13/2009 12:44:17 AM · #9
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by zeuszen:

I think it should be far more profitable to comment on the best pictures than to attempt doctoring the worst. I'm more interested in models of seeing than in embellishing instances of incompetence.

Each to his own, of course, but I must disagree. By figuring out what it is that I do and do not like about another entry, I have come away with insight that I have been able to apply to my own photography.


Let me rephrase to take us back to 2003 or thereabouts when I said in the same context: "Everyone and the kitchen sink (yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here) is concerned with fixing pictures that are beyond fixing, yet little attention is given to the very models of seeing. How can we move forward, if we don't know where to go and look for the force that creates the kind of photograph that doesn't need correction?"


I think the disconnect is this site almost prides itself on remaining in photography 101, that is learning the controls of your equipment. The only exam to pass is technical competence and illustrating the fact that you can take direction (i.e. challenge theme relevancy). We rarely advance any further. For many what is the point when the goal is to just make a quick buck or have 15 minutes of fame?

Message edited by author 2009-11-13 00:44:49.
11/13/2009 01:59:55 AM · #10
I try and comment on anything I scored 4 or less. 5's and 6' are so common that I don't have the time. It is however extremely difficult as you neither want to offend nor be too wishy-washy and insipid. Take my current entry in Symmetry III. It has been hammered down in the past 7 hours from a +6.1 (Scored during Australasian and European daylight voters) to a 5.6 since North America woke up and started voting (sic). Yet only 1 voter commented suggesting an "improvement" to my entry. He misses my photographic point and I'm afraid doesnt understand the dual definition of symmetry. 3 people understood my entry and commented, 2 of whom explicitly understood it, and that's good enough for me!

The vast majority will not leave comments except where excellence attracts pollination or a fire hydrant attracts urination..

Message edited by author 2009-11-13 02:32:49.
11/13/2009 03:10:14 AM · #11
The only comment I will give if it is mandatory is "no comment". Seriously.
11/13/2009 03:24:32 AM · #12
Originally posted by irish_princess87:

I think it would be a good idea to require a comment for scores under 5. A lot of the comments I get are positive and, while reassuring, aren't very helpful. I want to know why someone gave me a low score and what I can do to improve. This might also deter people from giving everyone low scores to bolster their own. Anyone else feel the same?

The only thing that you will discover from this oft recycled thread subject is that you cannot force people to leave comments.

It's presumptuous, and it hasn't worked in the past.

If people don't want to leave a comment, they won't, and if you require them to for X and such vote, you're more likely to end up with challenges that'll end with 20 votes on each entry.

If you look back at the image views to votes on your entries, you'll see that some challenges only garner one vote out of 2-3 views.......what do you think will happen if you require a comment?

Besides, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have one comment that is well thought out and expressed than six that are the product of a ruleset, i.e., "Too Muddled" or some other useless comment just to meet the regs.
11/13/2009 04:39:30 AM · #13
I believe it is difficult to mandate others to comment, but we can mandate ourselves to do it, let's start within us and just hope everyone does the same.
11/13/2009 04:51:52 AM · #14
what could be a good idea could be to have a DNMC tick box, but posting an image in the forum to get feedback always gets a few people who will look more carefully and give some constructive comments
11/13/2009 04:57:45 AM · #15
Originally posted by denbote:

I believe it is difficult to mandate others to comment, but we can mandate ourselves to do it, let's start within us and just hope everyone does the same.

This is the best point made so far.
Reminds me of Ghandi's "Be the change you wish to see in the world."
11/13/2009 09:00:21 AM · #16
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Let me rephrase to take us back to 2003 or thereabouts when I said in the same context: "Everyone and the kitchen sink (yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here) is concerned with fixing pictures that are beyond fixing, yet little attention is given to the very models of seeing. How can we move forward, if we don't know where to go and look for the force that creates the kind of photograph that doesn't need correction?"

I agree in the regard of learning from the good stuff, but I also think we can learn from what does not work. Perhaps it also has to do with where one personally is and what they are trying to get out of this site. Someone else in the thread mentioned about "stuck in photography 101". Well, we have plenty of people here who are at that stage. I like to think I am in "photography 102" now. I think this is all a natural result of having challenges that toss complete newbies in the same contest with experts and pros.

Originally posted by zeuszen:

(yes, I'm opinionated s.o.b. here)

I know. :-}
03/04/2010 12:01:07 PM · #17
Originally posted by Magnum_za:

... The vast majority will not leave comments except where excellence attracts pollination or a fire hydrant attracts urination..

03/04/2010 12:06:26 PM · #18
I agree that requiring comments will not lead to helpful critiques. You'll get - 'lacks interest' 'poor composition' or even a nice comment 'makes me hungry'... here's your 1

My point is - requiring comments will not mean they are helpful comments - just random jibberish to bypass a filter.

Edited to add: Sorry - didn't see this was such an old thread .... oops. I give myself a 2 and hang my head.

Message edited by author 2010-03-04 12:08:26.
03/04/2010 12:06:44 PM · #19
...again???
03/04/2010 12:19:12 PM · #20
Originally posted by Spork99:

...again???

The subject popped up again in a scores thread...thought I'd just bump this thread instead of having yet another one created. :-) Besides, this thread isn't THAT old. :-D
03/04/2010 12:19:24 PM · #21
This is from November..
03/04/2010 12:22:07 PM · #22
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Spork99:

...again???

The subject popped up again in a scores thread...thought I'd just bump this thread instead of having yet another one created. :-) Besides, this thread isn't THAT old. :-D


In DPC years - isn't 1 month like a year? I know the week it'll take for this egg score to go away will feel like an eternity (and not in a good 'anticipatory' way).
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