Back in the USA - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

05/19/2004 09:12:48 PM · #1

After a 5 month visit to Mexico, I'll be returning to USA tomorrow. I'm not entirely happy about it. A lot of things have happened since I left.

I am not a nationalist. I am a globalist. I don't believe in political frontiers, but I don't believe in terrorists either. I've watched and read with interest the political debate that appears on this photography site with interest. Why the debate exists on a photography site I have no idea, but I here's my two cents.

Living outside of the USA for a period of time would be a great idea for any gringo nationalist. Public opinion is not good. We appear to the international community to be materialistic, self righteous, bullies. The international community is not altogether wrong. We gringos push our will about pretty much as we please.

When I left the USA, I was a Bush supporter. I thought his leadership after 9/11 was very good. I will vote for Bush again, but now for different reasons. I have come to believe that the Iraq war never had anything to do with WMD, but oil. The third world war is upon us, and it is all about energy.

I support the energy war. And billions will die if we lose. In the last 150 years, since oil was discovered as an energy source, we have depleted half of the available supply. From now on, oil production will continue to decrease, and demand will continue to grow. The prognostications are horrendous. Every alternative energy source needs oil to develop its technology. Without the oil, no new technology can advance. If we run out of oil, before the new technologies are ready, 90% of the planet dies.

The US is the only country on the planet that has the military capability to take control of the world energy market. And while many countries have great engineers, few countries have the capacity to make their presence known. An international coalition? As a planet, that coalition had better be engineers. The planet is at risk.

A few million deaths now, are nothing compared to the billions of deaths that will occur if this planet runs out of oil before substitute technologies are ready. Many prognosticate that we are already too late. If you are patriot, send your kid to engineering school and send that SUV to the crusher.

I just wish that we could be honest about it. Just tell them��We are here to steal your oil�, and we will kill you if you resist.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 21:14:20.

BruB

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

05/19/2004 09:22:05 PM · #2

I'm not an american (i'm from Quebec), but this is a very strong statement. I hope people here are more civilised then I've seen on other sites.

In alot of place I know on the web, you would be put on the most wanted list for such a comment. Kudos to you my friend for having an opinion, it's hard nowadays and good luck in your return to the united-states.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 21:22:15.

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/19/2004 09:25:45 PM · #3

I would like to proactively request that this thread be moved to "rant" where I can block out the inevitable flame-fest.

05/19/2004 09:27:43 PM · #4

the flame fest is inevitable. and you are right, it should have gone to rant in the first place.

05/19/2004 09:38:02 PM · #5

in fact, rant is where this belongs. I'm moving the post.

MadMordegon

05/19/2004 09:41:35 PM · #6

hey at least rananculus is going to vote for Bush for a real reason that is consistant with current/future reality.

alot better than my co-workers who say "the dems wanna take our guns away!"

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/19/2004 09:47:38 PM · #7

Ahhh ... to facilitate communication, I will move this thread to Rants and lock the duplicate post you started.

05/19/2004 09:48:26 PM · #8

thanks Gen

05/19/2004 09:49:42 PM · #9

I've reading you're comments throughout the debate. I'm counting that you'll chime in!!

05/19/2004 10:18:49 PM · #10

i guess my opinion is just to rediculous to even comment on. Or maybe just the ravers are taking a break tonight!!!

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/19/2004 10:31:46 PM · #11

or maybe my title wasn't compelling enough!!!

Morgan

Nikon D800

05/19/2004 10:41:15 PM · #12

Originally posted by rananculus:

or maybe my title wasn't compelling enough!!!

Or just maybe, it is just a waste time to post on such a silly and reaction provoking comment that is simply looking to be attacked.

The thought needs to be further support and expressed for a proper debate.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/19/2004 11:00:32 PM · #13

Originally posted by Morgan:

Originally posted by rananculus:
or maybe my title wasn't compelling enough!!!

Or just maybe, it is just a waste time to post on such a silly and reaction provoking comment that is simply looking to be attacked.

The thought needs to be further support and expressed for a proper debate.

maybe you might have some thoughts to add.

Message edited by author 2004-05-19 23:01:44.

Hoogie

Nikon D50

05/22/2004 09:13:14 AM · #14

Yep americans are nothing more than brainwashed morons.

Its a shame that patriotism is shoved down thier throats and its laughable that americans believe they are free!!!!!!

I stopped coming to this site because of americans murdering for money and now they are committing crimes aginst the prisoners...WHAT PIGS YOU ARE

You need to escape your country and like my american friends living in my city you will realize what a crappy dictatorship you brainwashed yanks live in.

Admins please erase my profile, i dont want to have anything to do with murdering scum!

Cam

Sony DSC-F717

05/22/2004 09:38:29 AM · #15

Originally posted by Hoogie:

HA ! Thats funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Message edited by author 2004-05-22 14:23:45.

sailracer_98

Canon EOS-6D

05/22/2004 10:32:34 AM · #16

rananculus- I will post a response for you. I can't tell if you intended this in a sarcastic way or not, but you have some seriously conflicting ideas in your post. You claim you are a "globalist" but say the US should go to war against everyone else to get oil?! Your claims about billions dieing if we lose the energy war is equally ridiculous for a number of reasons.

First, as the supply of oil dwindles, the price of it will go up to the point that alternative energy sources look much more attractive, and demand for them will increase. The alternative technology is very real today- some cities are already running fuel cell buses, factories are now being powered by the hydrogen byproducts of their operations. If the hundreds of billions of dollars the US spent (and is still spending) in Iraq went towards developing a hydrogen infrastructure in this country and towards research and development of alternative energies, we could reduce our dependence on foreign energy much sooner and without the need to fight costly wars.

(see next post)

sailracer_98

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/22/2004 10:33:23 AM · #17

Second, say we "win" the energy war and continue to pay $1 a gallon for gas right up to the last drop. Then when the oil runs out we are totally screwed. The economics of artificially cheap oil prevents the development and adoption of alternative energies and then you are really stuck. When I think about it, what you are advocating is actually the opposite of capitalism. You don't want a free market to determine the supply and demand for petroleum products. Instead you want the government to collectively control and manage it. That sounds alot like the failed governing model of the Soviet Union.

Third, the population of the US is pretty steady somewhere around 250 million people and the entire world is somewhere around 4 billion. If all the oil were to get used up tomorrow, I think most of that 4 billion would survive but most of that 250 million probably wouldn't! The 100 million SUV drivers in this country wouldn't be able to drive the mile to the store and can't fathom having to WALK or RIDE A BIKE. They will quickly die of starvation. Maybe some of them would realize the stores wouldn't have any food anyway and would try to grow their own food. 2/3 of these people are probably overweight or obese and would die of heart attacks when they picked up a hoe and started exerting themselves. Most of the rest of the world is nowhere near as dependent on oil as the US and would probably survive much better.
(cont...)

sailracer_98

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/22/2004 10:34:17 AM · #18

Finally, you repeatedly claim that the planet is at risk to the loss of oil. I think the PLANET would be much better off without the oil. HUMAN CIVILIZATION is the only thing that might be hurt by running out of oil. I expect the PLANET would be much better off if that were to happen...

(I guess I am too long winded to fit this into the space allocated for a single post!)

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/22/2004 10:59:24 AM · #19

Originally posted by sailracer_98:

... the population of the US is pretty steady somewhere around 250 million people and the entire world is somewhere around 4 billion.

Try 350 million and 6 billion ... and if China were to achieve the same standard of living as the USA, world oil consumption would be about 50% higher than currently.

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

05/22/2004 11:01:07 AM · #20

Originally posted by Hoogie:

Admins please erase my profile, i dont want to have anything to do with murdering scum!

No, no, no, no. You ain't leaving and taking that blue ribbon with you. I'll be jonesin' for bee shots.

But seriously folks, when these totally political, non-photographic forum postings get so prevalent that people are leaving maybe it's time to find a way to curb them. There are many, many other forums for political discussions. The resources of dpc are better used concentrating on digital photography.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/22/2004 11:19:19 AM · #21

In your preferences, you can turn off viewing the Rant forums altogether. And the threads are usually appropriately-titled to disclose their "offensive" content.

If reading that stuff bothers you, don't open those threads. For some people, it is not possible to separate the "political" from the rest of their lives, including their photography.

If you eliminate the Rant forums, you'll merely create "political pollution" in the rest of the forums ... a far worse situation for the strictly-photographically inclined.

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

05/22/2004 11:37:25 AM · #22

I've done that from time to time-- turning off the rant forums. It filters out most of the politic stuff. But I would rather have access to them. I'd rather the Rant forums were used for ranting about photography and dpc stuff, like when the dopey voters don't recognize my artistic talent, or when the SC DQs my image just becasue my camera made a mistake about dates. Speaking hypothetically, wouldn't it be better to squeeze out the political ranters who are mostly venting their various agendas, and encourage people to separate the "political" from their photography; than to allow the politicos to drive out quality photographers like Hoogie?