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 07/16/2009 06:22:55 PM · #1
to force a couple to pay for wedding photography services if they cancel 10 months in advance to use another photographer? They signed a contract and understood that they lost their $500 deposit. Opinions?
 07/16/2009 06:26:20 PM · #2
What part of the contract are you questioning? 10 months seems like plenty of time in advance, and that's what the deposit is for anyway right? You still have $500 more than you would if they had never book with you at all.
 07/16/2009 06:31:19 PM · #3
I suspect FF is the *second* photographer, and the original photographer is trying to force them to pay more than the deposit. I could be wrong...

R.
 07/16/2009 06:31:43 PM · #4
I am not the photographer. This is a situation I heard about and was curious what the pro
s on this site thought. The contract said if you canceled with them and hired another photographer for the same job you owed them the full rate. I would buy it if the person canceled 6 months or closer, but 10 months out seemed like plenty of time for me. This business wants full money for doing nothing and I can't see how that legal.
 07/16/2009 06:40:35 PM · #5
Originally posted by FF112173:
...This business wants full money for doing nothing and I can't see how that legal.


If the couple understood and signed the contract, then it is binding, whether they like it or not, and whether it is fair or not. They should consult with a lawyer if they feel they have been taken advantage of.
 07/16/2009 06:45:15 PM · #6
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by FF112173:
...This business wants full money for doing nothing and I can't see how that legal.


If the couple understood and signed the contract, then it is binding, whether they like it or not, and whether it is fair or not. They should consult with a lawyer if they feel they have been taken advantage of.


Exactly. If the contract states you must pay full rate for cancellations, you pay full rate.

It helps to read contracts and understand them before you sign them, instead of signing and then hoping you can whine your way out :D
 07/16/2009 06:47:48 PM · #7
So what you are saying is that I can right up a contract to take, let's say graduation photos. In the contract I make the statement that once you sign the contract, if you cancel with me and then hire somebody else to do them you still owe me the full rate, that's legal? It kind of forces you to use me even if my quality of work isn't very good. That sucks.
 07/16/2009 06:50:58 PM · #8
Originally posted by FF112173:
So what you are saying is that I can right up a contract to take, let's say graduation photos. In the contract I make the statement that once you sign the contract, if you cancel with me and then hire somebody else to do them you still owe me the full rate, that's legal? It kind of forces you to use me even if my quality of work isn't very good. That sucks.


Nobody is forced into anything. If you don't like the contract, find another photographer BEFORE you put pen to paper. Do your research, look at portfolios, and be a smart shopper.
 07/16/2009 07:06:37 PM · #9
I guess I'm kinda confused.. Why would anyone sign a contract with someone and then not expect that contract to be binding ??? Why not then say the $500 deposit should be refunded too.. I would also think that you should have a clue about the photographer you were entering into this contract with, prior to signing it.. It seems quite silly to agree to have someone do your photo's if you're not pleased with their work..

Did this couple find another photographer that was less expensive so that's why they've made the change ???
 07/16/2009 07:15:12 PM · #10
Actually the photographer they went with was more expensive. It wasn't the money, they were not happy with the quality of photos that were taken. You see, they entered into the contract and part of the package included engagement photos. When they got the engagement proofs back they were very disappointed in the work. They then decided to look for someone new.

I don't know. I would have balked at signing a contract with that stipulation but I guess they were made to feel very comfortable. Like I said if they cost this guy a gig by canceling to close to their date, then yes they owe him the full rate. But I would think 10 months would be plenty of time to get another client.
 07/16/2009 07:21:42 PM · #11
Originally posted by FF112173:
Actually the photographer they went with was more expensive. It wasn't the money, they were not happy with the quality of photos that were taken. You see, they entered into the contract and part of the package included engagement photos. When they got the engagement proofs back they were very disappointed in the work. They then decided to look for someone new.

I don't know. I would have balked at signing a contract with that stipulation but I guess they were made to feel very comfortable. Like I said if they cost this guy a gig by canceling to close to their date, then yes they owe him the full rate. But I would think 10 months would be plenty of time to get another client.


Unfortunately, no matter how 'comfortable' you feel, you need to be smart about anything you sign.

Lesson learned.

There may, of course, be legal courses of action for quality issues, but I don't know enough about that sort of thing.
 07/16/2009 07:30:49 PM · #12
Originally posted by FF112173:
It wasn't the money, they were not happy with the quality of photos that were taken. You see, they entered into the contract and part of the package included engagement photos. When they got the engagement proofs back they were very disappointed in the work. They then decided to look for someone new.

What they should then look into is whether the quality of the photos delivered from the engagement portion of the shoot was so poor as to cause the photographer to be in breach of the written contract, in which case they might have an out. Otherwise, they are probably bound by the literal written terms of the contract, and are unlikely to prevail legally, no matter how much empathy the judge/jury might have for them.

oooh, if they go to court, there will be a parade of professional photographers opining (for each side) as to whether the photos in question are a 5.5 or above compared to the "community standard" for seimilar services -- talk about your "juried" art competitions!

Message edited by author 2009-07-16 19:33:13.
 07/16/2009 07:44:54 PM · #13
I figured as much but I wanted the opinions of members of this site. I hate the idea that they may have to pay, but I guess no matter how ridiculous the contract, if you sign it you abide by it.
07/16/2009 07:58:05 PM · #14
wow... what a bummer... I wonder what happened.. Usually I if you see what a photog is capable of, then it's pretty indicative of what you're going to get also.. If they liked what they saw in regards to the other clients, then I wonder howcome their engagement photo's came out so bad...

I also wonder if this sort of incident has taken place enough times with this photographer that they felt it necessary to write that kind of language into their contracts.. Seems like in the long run that could only hurt the photographer since word of mouth is so important when getting new clients..
I would be terrified of this photog and wouldn't go near them or refer anyone to them in the future.. I wonder why they would want to risk that kind of bad publicity over something that's obviously canceled so far in advance..
 07/16/2009 08:26:37 PM · #15
Originally posted by FF112173:
I figured as much but I wanted the opinions of members of this site. I hate the idea that they may have to pay, but I guess no matter how ridiculous the contract, if you sign it you abide by it.


Pretty close... There are limits to contract conditions, but I'm afraid this one would not be one of them.

The original photographer has conditions that I would never agree to, but they agreed and appear to be stuck now. If there was no stipulation for a time window on cancelling, then they are on the hook.

The other way out is to change the event enough so that it is not the same as the original contract calls for. However, that could mean making changes that are unpalatable to the families involved.
07/16/2009 09:02:10 PM · #16
Depends on how desperate they are to get out of it. There might be the squeaky wheel defense: Tell the photographer is 10 months, and they're more than happy to lose the deposit. But, if he's adamant about getting the full price, they are going to make sure the community understands that his photographs are substandard. They will post the engagement photos in an obvious place on-line with full description of why they suck. They'll call the better business bureau. Ok, I'm not picking the right things, but you get the idea. If it's a small community, the photographer might be willing to waive the full fee and take the deposit as to not get a bad reputation. If it's a large community, then this wouldn't work either and they're sunk.
 07/16/2009 09:18:33 PM · #17
They already got married and this photographer waited until after they were married to try and collect. I believe they even offered them $1000.00 on top of the $500.00 deposit as a settlement and they wouldn't take it.
 07/16/2009 09:36:55 PM · #18
Originally posted by FF112173:
They already got married and this photographer waited until after they were married to try and collect. I believe they even offered them $1000.00 on top of the $500.00 deposit as a settlement and they wouldn't take it.

The photograph in question does he or she have other photographers to shoot weddings and events? If not, can the couple prove the said photographer was NOT available at the time of their wedding (ie. on another shoot because he or she knew of the cancellation). The reason I ask is in some states law overrides a contract that the law deems unacceptable practice witch can cover cancellations.

Check and see if the photographer was paid for another shoot on the day of canceled shoot proving that he or she would not have been able to provide said service and was paid by another booked client in place of canceled session. This would show that the photographer did not loose money due to the cancellation and the couple could, by law, in some states not be held to that clause in a signed contract.

07/16/2009 10:37:04 PM · #19
I was about to suggest what Scott just did, check if the guy then rebooked the date.......If he has waited until after the wedding, then my guess is that he did, and has now seen this as a way of getting extra money. There are some dodgy people in the Photography business, fortunately they seem to be few and far between.......

I would never sign a contract that has that statement in it. Generally speaking, people tend to have cancellation clauses on a sliding scale, as the longer notice given, the more likely youo are to get a replacement booking. Loosing the deposit is standard, having to pay for the whole lot, not so........Never heard of a clause where if you opt for someone else, you have to pay. Maybe he has had people pull out before after the engagement???

Generally speaking photogrpahers are so concerned about their reputation that many go the other way to ensure they don't get a bad name. However, in this case, the guy might not be that concerned, and therefore they might have to pay.......

07/16/2009 11:13:48 PM · #20
Originally posted by FF112173:
They already got married and this photographer waited until after they were married to try and collect. I believe they even offered them $1000.00 on top of the $500.00 deposit as a settlement and they wouldn't take it.


At this point, unless they want to fork over the money, they need to contact a decent lawyer. If they told the photographer that they were going with someone else because of the quality of the photographer's work, and the photographer never mentioned enforcing the clause till after the wedding, then they may have some wiggle room. If they gave the photographer a false reason, such as the wedding was cancelled, then they may not look so shiny bright in court.
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