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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> New Radio Poppers and Pocket Wizards
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 02/16/2009 09:44:33 AM · #1
Hey All,

Curious everyone's thoughts on the new Radio Poppers that were announced a couple of weeks ago//www.radiopopper.com/ and the new Pocket Wizards that were announced today. //www.pocketwizard.com

It looks like they are essentially feature for feature except for the advantages that the poppers give with AB's or White Lightnings. Well, that and the fact that I am sure the poppers will be significantly cheaper for an entire system.

Anyway, thoughts??
 02/16/2009 10:07:55 AM · #2
Just saw this on /p/. I wish I wasn't broke. I'll probably end up with some Cactus triggers for now, but hopefully I will one day have enough disposable income to drop on a set of these babies.
 02/16/2009 02:18:36 PM · #3
Bump?? No one has thoughts? :(
 02/16/2009 02:40:26 PM · #4
I had bought into the old radio popper system so I could retain the use of the SU-800, which I love, and gain the TTL over radio transmission. It's genious technology. Now that they've sorted out the design issues, I'll be trading mine up for the new models, despite the fact that they've jumped significantly in price :-( At least they're offering a rebate program.

*edited grammar

Message edited by author 2009-02-16 14:42:07.
 02/16/2009 06:56:17 PM · #5
I am pleased to see more action on this radio front so just some thoughts...

- I love that PW are losing market share... They have be sitting on their hands riding the monopoly for a long time... Notice how fast they responded to the RP once it became a hot business issue for them.
- RP and PW are doing it differently from what I see... RP is just sending whatever it sees over radio but PW are sitting in the middle - hence that one stop increase from the flash cause they can see what eTTL is doing an preempt it and also the fact they are running different models for different systems.
- My reading would make RP more future proof and allow ALL the eTTL/CLS/whatever functions vs. PW having to reverse the protocols. I believe PW are not providing power adj for that reason but I skimmed most of the stuff.
- The prices are a little north of the existing rigs, so I don't know that's a good idea as a lot of people were hoping for a PW lite type of deal but I guess they have to go that way.
- I think this hurts RP pretty badly even though they have more functionality and better future proofing (they also have a more clumsy attachment process). It's the 800 lb gorilla flexing it's muscle and a lot of pros will jump on a PW implementation due to existing stuff and the commonness of their stuff.
- I do think that RP has shot itself in the foot a bit with all the missed deadlines and promises that don't pan out.... I know they are a startup but you cannot play in that area with what appears to be an amateur management & marketing strategy.
- IMO, I am still going the Cyber path because the future of the commander is better IF you have PCB lights and the price is good for the camera flashes (al la strobist stuff). They don't have the range of RP or PW's though and only the commander will have the group functions of the skyports. I can see if you need radio TTL it would be harder - I would probably go PW myself and hold my nose - but would depend how important those few functions are and if you ever change systems :-).
- I am disappointed that the cactus have not become more robust butsome people love them.... I despised mine.

Anyway... Enough blah blah.... Back to you regular reading :-)
 02/16/2009 10:03:37 PM · #6
Good thoughts, Rob.

Originally posted by robs:

- The prices are a little north of the existing rigs, so I don't know that's a good idea as a lot of people were hoping for a PW lite type of deal but I guess they have to go that way.
- I think this hurts RP pretty badly even though they have more functionality and better future proofing (they also have a more clumsy attachment process). It's the 800 lb gorilla flexing it's muscle and a lot of pros will jump on a PW implementation due to existing stuff and the commonness of their stuff.
- I do think that RP has shot itself in the foot a bit with all the missed deadlines and promises that don't pan out.... I know they are a startup but you cannot play in that area with what appears to be an amateur management & marketing strategy.


Definitely. Pros will go straight to PW because they can afford it and they need absolute reliability, which a bigger brand (at least appears) to provide. I wasn't paying attention to the delivery problems you cited, but IMO RP should have come up with a cheaper solution. I believe there's a huge low-budget market (starving-student Strobist following). The problem is that there's no offering in between the unreliable $40 Cactus triggers and the $400 (for transmitter+receiver) solutions. Where's the $100 reliable version without the bells and whistles (TTL)?

For me, the Cactus triggers got real flaky at farther than 5 feet, and over 1/100th second sync. Plus they use an expensive, uncommon battery type. I actually have found another, cheaper off brand ($20 ala eBay) to work better, and they use AAA batteries. I'll link'em if I can find it.
 02/16/2009 10:36:50 PM · #7
Originally posted by smurfguy:
The problem is that there's no offering in between the unreliable $40 Cactus triggers and the $400 (for transmitter+receiver) solutions.


I only disagree with this part - IMO CyberSyncs are that middle ground - Just talking about the CST & either the regular trigger or for $20 more the plus receivers. Would I like the cybers cheaper - yeah for sure but it's not bad. The step up for me on these is the commander which has a lot of possibilities - hence why I am only buying plus receivers as it's growing room for studio lights I will get at some point.
 02/17/2009 12:29:17 AM · #8
I've had PocketWizards for a long time. If the new PWs had come out before RadioPoppers, I would have gone that route due to compatibility with my existing PWs.

But instead, I bought into the RPs when they first came out, and I already have the brand new RPs (received them last week). So now I have two completely separate and incompatible radio systems. And I think I'm pretty much wedded to the RP system now as it would cost too much to scrap them and start over with PWs.

I liked robs analysis of the differences, it sounds about right based on what I read as well.

For anyone curious, I really really like the new RadioPoppers. The old ones had a bit of a "unfinished" feel to them. The battery was hard to change (required carrying a screwdriver). The battery didn't last nearly long enough. The fiber optic was always getting bumped out of place. The system was a tad bulky and the needed spare batteries added to size and bulk in my carrying case.

The new RPs are smaller, the batteries last longer, they are AAAs instead of AAs (but less likely to need them), changing them is a piece of cake, no tools required, the LED on the unit even tells you how much battery is left so you know when to worry. The fiber optic cable is gone, the RPs were pretty reliable before, but seem to be even more so now. Basically, I like 'em. :)

I like the new PWs mount (using the hotshoe) a bit more than the idea of using velcro, however I have to admit that the velcro has never once failed (I've never had an RP dislodge from the flash).

I love the idea of PWs ability to be upgraded over time with new firmware downloaded from the internet. I do think that they will need that feature more than RPs however, because RPs simply "pass the signal along" rather than trying to interpret it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I would love to have some PWs to play with. But I'm not about to shell out more bucks when I've just upgraded to the new RPs.

02/17/2009 03:52:31 PM · #9
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by smurfguy:
The problem is that there's no offering in between the unreliable $40 Cactus triggers and the $400 (for transmitter+receiver) solutions.


I only disagree with this part - IMO CyberSyncs are that middle ground - Just talking about the CST & either the regular trigger or for $20 more the plus receivers. Would I like the cybers cheaper - yeah for sure but it's not bad. The step up for me on these is the commander which has a lot of possibilities - hence why I am only buying plus receivers as it's growing room for studio lights I will get at some point.

Ah - I should have said "I know of no offering in between"... Thanks for pointing out the AlienBees CyberSyncs. Looks like the receiver and transmitter are about $60 each, and include a PC cable (for use with my Nikon Speedlights). I may go this route if my cheapo triggers annoy me enough.

dwterry - indeed, RP's win in time-to-market and their pass-through compatibility may indeed earn them more credit than I supposed.

So when will the camera manufacturers simply add RF capability to their high-end SLR's and flashes?
 02/17/2009 03:55:41 PM · #10
Originally posted by smurfguy:

So when will the camera manufacturers simply add RF capability to their high-end SLR's and flashes?


When they receive a severe brain injury and forget that all they care about is making mountains of money.
 02/17/2009 04:01:53 PM · #11
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by smurfguy:

So when will the camera manufacturers simply add RF capability to their high-end SLR's and flashes?


When they receive a severe brain injury and forget that all they care about is making mountains of money.


Yeah but remember that radio is tightly controlled band and would be a nightmare - in fact PW's have different frequencies in a number of countries. I don't think you can yet buy RP's out of the US (and Canada probably) because of the radio freq issues... I know they are working on that approval for the new version as they changed something from the first set to make that easier outside the US (their blog has something to that affect but I don't recall the details). I doubt there is a worldwide freq available that is approved in all or most places.

Besides - Canon & Nikon are too busy ripping us on body upgrades to spend time on this esoteric stuff :-/

Edit: I see there are some exclusions on the new PW's already due to that sitting between eTTL..... It does not apparantly work with the 5DmkII and a flash in the top of the unit.... Remember the issue with all 3rd parties and the 5D2 as they changed something in the protocol. I agree with David - They are going to need that USB port to keep stuff future proof :-)

Message edited by author 2009-02-17 16:06:48.
 02/17/2009 05:06:37 PM · #12
Originally posted by robs:
I am pleased to see more action on this radio front so just some thoughts...
- My reading would make RP more future proof and allow ALL the eTTL/CLS/whatever functions vs. PW having to reverse the protocols. I believe PW are not providing power adj for that reason but I skimmed most of the stuff.


Yea, I'm reading that ratio adjustments (A:B and A:B,C) are only possible if you insert a master unit into the camera mounted PW unit...

I'm also a little surprised by some radio interference issues the PW versions are having with the 430EX, 580EX, and 580EX II. I'd love to know how bad that interference is, as Rob Galbraith mentions the 430EX as introducing misfires and odd behaviour when the transmitter to receiver distance exceeded about 30ft (about 9m) or so..
 05/22/2009 02:27:43 AM · #13
Does anyone know how it will work with the EU/CE model, with regard to interference? I think it is not out yet, but just on the way. I will consider the 430EX II flashes, mainly for the interference problems. But with PWs, I don't need the master function of the 580 anyway, so I guess that is the way for me to go.
 05/22/2009 02:49:55 AM · #14
I am not even sure if Quantum Qflashes are not a better option for me. They look interesting, but seems like I need more gear in terms of weight and size (larger size, batteries, cables and so on).

If you had to start from a clean sheet (like all equipment got stolen), what flash and remotes would you get?
 10/13/2009 07:29:56 AM · #15
I'm sorry to bring back this topic, but better than to start a new one.

Would you buy pocetwizards on ebay? I'm not familiar with ebay at all, but I found "new pocketwizards" for one/third of the price here in Norway.
 10/13/2009 10:32:04 AM · #16
I did buy a new set of Plus II's on eBay a couple of years ago. They came boxed with the manual etc. New in box, NIB. It was a good deal. Just check to make sure the seller has a 100% good feedback record and that they ship to your country. Better to send them a message via eBay to check the cost of mailing etc. I bought 3 units but I recommend buying 4 to save going back in the future. If the price is much higher in your country, you can always sell them for a good price. I notice that Pocket Wizards do hold their price when selling used.
 10/13/2009 11:28:32 AM · #17
Originally posted by pineapple:
I did buy a new set of Plus II's on eBay a couple of years ago. They came boxed with the manual etc. New in box, NIB. It was a good deal. Just check to make sure the seller has a 100% good feedback record and that they ship to your country. Better to send them a message via eBay to check the cost of mailing etc. I bought 3 units but I recommend buying 4 to save going back in the future. If the price is much higher in your country, you can always sell them for a good price. I notice that Pocket Wizards do hold their price when selling used.


Bought 3 units for the price of ONE. Seller looked alright. Think he had 811 good feedbacks out of 811 deals or something, so it looked safe enough =)
 10/13/2009 11:46:17 AM · #18
Nice deal.
 12/10/2010 02:22:56 PM · #19
Radio Poppers are just great. I use them on Nikon. So far they can\'t be beat on Nikon. See how I use them at vigorotaku_blogspot_com/2010/11/radiopoppers.html
I use the standard Pocket Wizard II's as well.

I hope that this helps.

just replace the _ with . for the link to work
 12/10/2010 03:26:36 PM · #20
I have a TT1 & TT5 combo, and whilst they work well (on the european frequency) the build quality is a bit shit to be honest - the hotshoe connectors are made of very flimsy plastic and I broke mine within a week of having it - why they could use a metal connector I`ll never know.

But, they do work incredibly well.
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