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12/30/2008 08:25:30 PM · #1 |
This is kind of in the same ballpark as my thread about the vagabond system,but would this work to power at least one 750w strobe?
//www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/B000P9UOAC/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi
Someone was saying that if it can handle a computer, it can handle the strobes. True? |
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12/30/2008 09:07:43 PM · #2 |
strobes depend on the sine wave to know when they are full charged, so they need a very specific kind of sine wave that regular (read cheaper kind) of inverters don't produce.
I know some folks run strobes on generators, but i would think they'd be more costly, heavier, noisier, smellier, higher maintenance than a vagabond or similar batter deal.
The vagabond can be had as a dual unit. The single unit can power multiple 600ws strobes. Multi units recharge faster.
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12/30/2008 09:33:56 PM · #3 |
| We used to run strobes off of generators all the time, but you need to make sure the generator makes fairly clean power or you can cook the charging circuits. |
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12/31/2008 08:33:43 AM · #4 |
Yeah I dont know what to do. Im mostly worried about getting the vagabond and it not being enough.
I can definitely run at least 2 750w strobes (not at full power) off of it right? and potentially 3? |
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12/31/2008 10:37:00 AM · #5 |
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. If you mean 750 watts, then this generator will power your strobe just fine. But not two @750w. This is not an inverter, it's an AC generator, an inverter converts DC (such as in your car or from a battery) to AC power. Provided you're not drawing more amperage than you have (I presume the gen has a single 2 pole 15Amp circuit) which a single strobe will not come close to touching. Do yourself a favor and put some fuel stabilizer and a full tank of gas in it if you store it for the winter. This will prevent the breakdown of the fuel over time and the inside of the fuel tank from rusting, causing you problems (and a new carb.) down the line.
In fact, using the Vagabond system really just places one more step in between a power source (your car lighter or a wall outlet) and your strobes. Using a generator will eliminate the need for the battery, but you will only be able to fire as many strobes as your wattage rating will allow.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Message edited by author 2008-12-31 10:49:52. |
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12/31/2008 12:23:11 PM · #6 |
From the alien bee site
The Vagabond II can handle up to 6-8 flash units. To run more than one light, connect a power strip/surge protector to the Vagabond II, and plug your lights into the power strip/surge protector. //www.alienbees.com/VIIsystem.html
They kind of say that you can run a zeus off the vagabond - it's 2500 ws! I've run 600 and two 400ws units off mine and they operate just as if they were plugged into the wall. Recycles just as fast.
Now I got a vagabond 1 in '07 and they claim i can get a Version 2 for $150 and keep my old one. So, you want a used vagabond 1 for $175 (shipping is not cheap - this thing's heavy).
It works perfectly and is like new. I can probably get a video off my P&S of me using it to prove it.
Why would I do this? So you get a deal and I get a vagabond 2. Hey, you'll save $125. PM me for discussion if you'd like. If you're anywhere new me (western pa) come over and play - bring your strobes even.
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12/31/2008 08:09:51 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. |
No.
A Watt is a measure of Power.
Watt-seconds is a measure of energy.
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12/31/2008 09:07:34 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. |
No.
A Watt is a measure of Power.
Watt-seconds is a measure of energy. |
Sorry to be corrective Spazmo, however, Watts are a measure of output.
Volts are a measure of power, or produced current.
Amps are a measure of power consumed, or current flowing.
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12/31/2008 09:19:46 PM · #9 |
I am fairly sure it could handel a strobe, But as a word of warning if yoiu decide to purchas a gen like this and it breaks down it is next to imposible to get repaired or parts for, I am an 25 year experienced small engine mechanic, If you want a dependbel gen I would recmend a HONDA gen.More expensive but well worth it They are the best there is. I am not a Honda dealer I just know what works and what dont
//www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models§ion=P2GG&category=play |
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12/31/2008 09:29:54 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. |
No.
A Watt is a measure of Power.
Watt-seconds is a measure of energy. |
Sorry to be corrective Spazmo, however, Watts are a measure of output.
Volts are a measure of power, or produced current.
Amps are a measure of power consumed, or current flowing. |
Wrong.
A Watt is, by definition, a measure of POWER.
A Volt is a measure of electric potential energy, not power or current.
An Ampere (or amp) is a measure of current, not power consumption, so, you're correct on this one, but only partially.
I suggest you pick up a basic physics or entry level electrical engineering textbook if you want to learn more.
If you want to be corrective, you should wait until someone posts something incorrect. When you do something like this, you just look silly.
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12/31/2008 10:12:38 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. |
No.
A Watt is a measure of Power.
Watt-seconds is a measure of energy. |
Sorry to be corrective Spazmo, however, Watts are a measure of output.
Volts are a measure of power, or produced current.
Amps are a measure of power consumed, or current flowing. |
Wrong.
A Watt is, by definition, a measure of POWER.
A Volt is a measure of electric potential energy, not power or current.
An Ampere (or amp) is a measure of current, not power consumption, so, you're correct on this one, but only partially.
I suggest you pick up a basic physics or entry level electrical engineering textbook if you want to learn more.
If you want to be corrective, you should wait until someone posts something incorrect. When you do something like this, you just look silly. |
You don't measure electricity, DC or AC with WATTS. Watts is the out put. The end result. A light bulb for example uses watts. I can not determine if that light bulb is coming from an AC source, or a DC source. I can not determine if the watt's are 9 volts, 12 v, 120 v, or 220 v.
Voltage Potential is merely the capacity for doing the work. Current will exert force on a charge. The potential energy is produced from the charge. A positive charge repulses a positive charge, therefore it has potential.
I wouldn't use wikipedia for your resources unless you have some sort of a clue first.
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12/31/2008 10:22:57 PM · #12 |
A Watt is a standard unit of power. It is equal to one joule of energy per second. For electrical power, one watt is equal to one ampere of current per second.
Watt-seconds is a unit of electrical energy equal to the work done when a current of one ampere passes through a resistance of one ohm for one second
The ampere, amp for short, is the standard unit of electrical current. It is defined as the current required to produce a certain force between two parallel and infinitely long wires separated by one meter. According to Ohm's law, one ampere of current is produced when one volt of potential difference exists across a conductor with one ohm of resistance. One ampere is also equal to the flow of one coulomb of electric charge per second.
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12/31/2008 10:23:07 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
I have a question, Do you mean watts, or watt-seconds? Because one is a measure of current and the other, a measure of the the use of current over time. |
No.
A Watt is a measure of Power.
Watt-seconds is a measure of energy. |
Sorry to be corrective Spazmo, however, Watts are a measure of output.
Volts are a measure of power, or produced current.
Amps are a measure of power consumed, or current flowing. |
Wrong.
A Watt is, by definition, a measure of POWER.
A Volt is a measure of electric potential energy, not power or current.
An Ampere (or amp) is a measure of current, not power consumption, so, you're correct on this one, but only partially.
I suggest you pick up a basic physics or entry level electrical engineering textbook if you want to learn more.
If you want to be corrective, you should wait until someone posts something incorrect. When you do something like this, you just look silly. |
You don't measure electricity, DC or AC with WATTS. Watts is the out put. The end result. A light bulb for example uses watts. I can not determine if that light bulb is coming from an AC source, or a DC source. I can not determine if the watt's are 9 volts, 12 v, 120 v, or 220 v.
Voltage Potential is merely the capacity for doing the work. Current will exert force on a charge. The potential energy is produced from the charge. A positive charge repulses a positive charge, therefore it has potential.
I wouldn't use wikipedia for your resources unless you have some sort of a clue first. |
Watts measures power. It's that simple.
I used Wikipedia because, in this case, it's correct.
If you need clarification, feel free to consult the NIST Reference on Constants, Units and Uncertainty
Of course, if you have any source that confirms your unique definition, please, by all means, share it. |
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12/31/2008 10:31:29 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Watts measures power. It's that simple.
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OK, sure,it measures the out put of power, but it does not measure the potential,or the capacity, or the resistance.
Measuring 1 watt or 100000 Kw, if that is what you are referring too.
A light bulb is a light bulb, but it does not determine how that light bulb is being illuminated.
Message edited by author 2008-12-31 23:57:46.
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12/31/2008 10:47:28 PM · #15 |
Watt y'all talking about?
To the OP, That 2 stroke motor sound may drive you whacky after a while. I had a smaller Coleman brand version of this generator. Some of those things use an alternator on the motor, rectify the output to DC, then convert it to AC with an inverter as well. If I wanted to try using one of those as you suggest for the strobes, I would think that running the output through a good UPS computer power supply may be a good idea.
Ok, back to watt you were all discussing. : )
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01/02/2009 10:40:00 AM · #16 |
| Prof Fate - SORRY! I didn't read your offer before ordering. I ended up justgetting the vagabond II after getting some assurance from the cust service people that it will be able to support my light kit. $350 total, for the unit plus the car charger and shipping. |
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01/02/2009 12:38:33 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Prof Fate - SORRY! I didn't read your offer before ordering. I ended up justgetting the vagabond II after getting some assurance from the cust service people that it will be able to support my light kit. $350 total, for the unit plus the car charger and shipping. |
No problem. I had mine about 3 months, maybe less, when they came out with the II and made the $150 offer then. I was tempted, but the I does what it's supposed to do , what I need it to do, and it's been perfect. Took me till last wedding to see the straps on the back of the bag that let you strap it to a lightstand so it can be teh weight to hold it up. Damn convenient!
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As to the electrical discussion...
You can compare a wire to a hose and electricity to the water in the hose.
Voltage is pressure. The more voltage the more there is pushing it out the end. A pressure washer takes what comes from a garden house (50 or 60psi) and makes it 1500 psi - but uses no more water than what the garden hose puts out. The diameter of the hose has no direct relationship to the pressure you can put in the hose, just like the wire size has no bearing on the voltage you can put in it.
Amps is akin to how much water flows through the hose. The bigger the hose, teh more water you can put through it. The bigger the wire the more amps you can put through it. Turn on a faucet you can water - it is measured in gallons per minute (or hour - some time unit). Want to fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, turn on the hose. How long will it take? If the water is flowing at the full amount of 5 gpm then it will take one minute. GPM is the flow. Ah is amp-hour. A circular saw that you plug in the wall needs 120 volts and may be rated at 15 amps. Meaning at full load it may need/draw 15 amps of elecricity to make it turn. Like water on a water wheel kind of idea.
Watts is the energy used, like gallons in water. If you never turn on the tap, you use no gallons of water. The more you open teh faucet the more gallons you use in a given amount of time. If you put more pressure on the water you increase it's flow and use more gallons.
Watts = amps X volts. Your typical household wall socket is 120v and 15amps, and that equates to a max of 1800 watts. use that amount of electricity for an hour and you have used 1800 watt-hours. That is the measurement you see on your electric bill, although it's in the thousands.
A kitchen outlet is usually 20 amps. So you can pull/use 2400 watts at a time. Things like toasters are 750 to 1200, microwaves 1000 to 1200 usually, etc. Put the 4 slice toaster and microwave into a 15 amp curcuit and turn them on full and you will pop the breaker as you are trying to use more watts than the circuit is rated for.
What actually happens you are pulling too many amps. Remember, the electric company is on the line and the POTENTIAL is unlimited. So the 120 volts stays the same, but the 2400 watts the two appliances are pullng is 20 amps (2400/120). Put too much pressure through a garden hose and the hose can burst. A wire will get hot, and it's the temp that trips the breaker.
Now the same math works on 220 volts like a stove or electric dryer. Given the same 20 amp circuit, it's 20 x 240 or 4400 watts total. You basically doubled the size of the hose.
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01/02/2009 01:08:33 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Prof Fate - SORRY! I didn't read your offer before ordering. I ended up justgetting the vagabond II after getting some assurance from the cust service people that it will be able to support my light kit. $350 total, for the unit plus the car charger and shipping. |
No problem. I had mine about 3 months, maybe less, when they came out with the II and made the $150 offer then. I was tempted, but the I does what it's supposed to do , what I need it to do, and it's been perfect. Took me till last wedding to see the straps on the back of the bag that let you strap it to a lightstand so it can be teh weight to hold it up. Damn convenient!
----------
As to the electrical discussion...
You can compare a wire to a hose and electricity to the water in the hose.
Voltage is pressure. The more voltage the more there is pushing it out the end. A pressure washer takes what comes from a garden house (50 or 60psi) and makes it 1500 psi - but uses no more water than what the garden hose puts out. The diameter of the hose has no direct relationship to the pressure you can put in the hose, just like the wire size has no bearing on the voltage you can put in it.
Amps is akin to how much water flows through the hose. The bigger the hose, teh more water you can put through it. The bigger the wire the more amps you can put through it. Turn on a faucet you can water - it is measured in gallons per minute (or hour - some time unit). Want to fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, turn on the hose. How long will it take? If the water is flowing at the full amount of 5 gpm then it will take one minute. GPM is the flow. Ah is amp-hour. A circular saw that you plug in the wall needs 120 volts and may be rated at 15 amps. Meaning at full load it may need/draw 15 amps of elecricity to make it turn. Like water on a water wheel kind of idea.
Watts is the energy used, like gallons in water. If you never turn on the tap, you use no gallons of water. The more you open teh faucet the more gallons you use in a given amount of time. If you put more pressure on the water you increase it's flow and use more gallons.
Watts = amps X volts. Your typical household wall socket is 120v and 15amps, and that equates to a max of 1800 watts. use that amount of electricity for an hour and you have used 1800 watt-hours. That is the measurement you see on your electric bill, although it's in the thousands.
A kitchen outlet is usually 20 amps. So you can pull/use 2400 watts at a time. Things like toasters are 750 to 1200, microwaves 1000 to 1200 usually, etc. Put the 4 slice toaster and microwave into a 15 amp curcuit and turn them on full and you will pop the breaker as you are trying to use more watts than the circuit is rated for.
What actually happens you are pulling too many amps. Remember, the electric company is on the line and the POTENTIAL is unlimited. So the 120 volts stays the same, but the 2400 watts the two appliances are pullng is 20 amps (2400/120). Put too much pressure through a garden hose and the hose can burst. A wire will get hot, and it's the temp that trips the breaker.
Now the same math works on 220 volts like a stove or electric dryer. Given the same 20 amp circuit, it's 20 x 240 or 4400 watts total. You basically doubled the size of the hose. |
All this is true and factual...
...Spaz was saying that Watts was a measurement of power, and that is incorrect.
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01/08/2009 10:11:30 AM · #19 |
Look, people are sweating the small stuff too much here.  Ajdelaware was only looking for an opinion on something. We're arguing semantics, here. I was only asking because I thought he was talking about watt/s and just wanted to make sure. I'm no electrician, though my dad is and I worked for him many moons ago, but these forums are here to help and encourage people, flaming is just not necessary.
I agree with  melonmusketeer, though. 2 strokes are noisy as hell.
And photonut66 as well. Honda motors are simply head and shoulders more reliable than the others. That I DO know! So if you're going to do alot of location work and were going to use a generator, that's the manufacturer I'd pick if I could afford it.
It's funny because I had the same questions running through my head recently. How to power lighting equipment remotely, and I haven't yet decided. |
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01/08/2009 10:20:46 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
All this is true and factual...
...Spaz was saying that Watts was a measurement of power, and that is incorrect. |
Are you going back to that lie?
Watts is a measure of power.
Maybe in your own special world the laws of physics that the rest of us have to abide by don't apply, but for everyone else, Watts are a measure of power, electrical, mechanical or thermal or otherwise.
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01/08/2009 10:31:58 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
All this is true and factual...
...Spaz was saying that Watts was a measurement of power, and that is incorrect. |
Are you going back to that lie?
Watts is a measure of power.
Maybe in your own special world the laws of physics that the rest of us have to abide by don't apply, but for everyone else, Watts are a measure of power, electrical, mechanical or thermal or otherwise. |
Not going to give you the satisfaction.
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
Ajdelaware ...was only looking for an opinion on something. We're arguing semantics, here. I was only asking because I thought he was talking about watt/s and just wanted to make sure. I'm no electrician, though my dad is and I worked for him many moons ago, but these forums are here to help and encourage people, flaming is just not necessary.
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It's not semantics, it knowledge based.
That is what DPC is, and when the knowledge is skewed, then a member walks away with the wrong information.
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01/08/2009 10:39:47 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
All this is true and factual...
...Spaz was saying that Watts was a measurement of power, and that is incorrect. |
Are you going back to that lie?
Watts is a measure of power.
Maybe in your own special world the laws of physics that the rest of us have to abide by don't apply, but for everyone else, Watts are a measure of power, electrical, mechanical or thermal or otherwise. |
Not going to give you the satisfaction. |
Because you're wrong and you know it.
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
Ajdelaware ...was only looking for an opinion on something. We're arguing semantics, here. I was only asking because I thought he was talking about watt/s and just wanted to make sure. I'm no electrician, though my dad is and I worked for him many moons ago, but these forums are here to help and encourage people, flaming is just not necessary.
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It's not semantics, it knowledge based.
That is what DPC is, and when the knowledge is skewed, then a member walks away with the wrong information. |
The wrong information provided by you in this case. |
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01/08/2009 10:46:38 AM · #23 |
Do me a favor SPAZ.
Take a meter, amp probe, voltage meter, doesn't matter.
Tell me if there is a Wattage setting.
Take that same meter, get a battery, or a generator even, and measure the Wattage.
Get back to me.
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01/08/2009 10:53:00 AM · #24 |
I use the Honda EU3000iSA generator.
It offers 3000 watts, 120V, super quiet, electric start, fuel efficient - up to 20 hrs on 3.4 gals of gas, inverter - stable power for computers and other sensitive electronics like strobes.
Honda's inverter technology takes the raw power produced by the generator and uses a special microprocessor to condition it through a multi-step process.
First, the generator's alternator produces high voltage multiphase AC power. The AC power is then converted to DC. Finally the DC power is converted back to AC by the inverter. The inverter also smooths and cleans the power to make it high quality. A special microprocessor controls the entire process, as well as the speed of the engine.
The end result? Clean enough power to run even the most sensitive electronic equipment.
Honda offers several models that can do the job, it all depends on your need and the budget available to you.
While I agree that the preceding debate over the definitions of watts is not highly productive at answering your question, I also agree that it is vital to understand these definitions in order to size the generator for your strobes. It is not simplistic and you will need to ensure that you have over-sized the genset for the need if you want it all to work properly.
To this point, I also own an Onan 5500 watt diesel genset and I would not use it with the strobes since it is not able to produce a clean enough sine wave - which someone else correctly indicated is vital for strobes.
Recently, I learned that Yamaha introduced a full line of gensets and most, if not all, are offered with stabilized sine wave outputs. I saw an advertisement for a Yamaha 6500 watt unit that was very competitively priced. So, you may want to investigate Yamaha's offerings.
I love the Honda gensets and highly recommend them, albeit at a premium price. I use Elinchrom strobes and do not want to risk them with a low grade genset.
Finally, as it is now boat and RV show season, there are often special deals offered at these shows to move product. So, watch the shows too.
I hope that this information is of value and helps you.
Cheers,
Michael
Message edited by author 2009-01-08 10:56:39. |
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01/08/2009 10:55:47 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
All this is true and factual...
...Spaz was saying that Watts was a measurement of power, and that is incorrect. |
Are you going back to that lie?
Watts is a measure of power.
Maybe in your own special world the laws of physics that the rest of us have to abide by don't apply, but for everyone else, Watts are a measure of power, electrical, mechanical or thermal or otherwise. |
Not going to give you the satisfaction.
Originally posted by Schnitzer17:
Ajdelaware ...was only looking for an opinion on something. We're arguing semantics, here. I was only asking because I thought he was talking about watt/s and just wanted to make sure. I'm no electrician, though my dad is and I worked for him many moons ago, but these forums are here to help and encourage people, flaming is just not necessary.
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It's not semantics, it knowledge based.
That is what DPC is, and when the knowledge is skewed, then a member walks away with the wrong information. |
Firstly, I'm not going to get in a flame war with you. I can't speak for Ajdelaware, but It appears as though he made an informed decision and made his purchase, despite the hijacking of his thread.
Second, does this look familiar?
Personal Goals
1 Lose weight, at least 30+ pounds.
2 Be a better Dad.
3 Save up for a Canon 1D Mark 3. ($125.00 so far.)
4 Find harmony in life.
You should work a little harder on #4 because it's unimportant stuff you're arguing about here.
I'm a massage therapist by trade. I sell harmony. Harmony is my life.
Generally, I try to shelf my judgements of people with whom the only interaction I've had are a profile page and a forum thread. However, based on this thread and your profile page, you strike me as the type of guy that has something to say about everything. Life's too short.
Don't bother responding. |
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