DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Woman fired over photographing coffins from Iraq
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 103, (reverse)
AuthorThread
04/22/2004 02:48:16 PM · #1
Woman fired over US coffins

related washington post article

Drudge report editoral

There, I think I covered the foreign, left wing biased and right wing biased media sources.

Message edited by author 2004-04-22 14:52:29.
04/22/2004 03:05:41 PM · #2
That's wild. The photographs are definitely stirring. Thx for sharing.
04/22/2004 03:08:47 PM · #3
Yeh, very moving photos, but not what any government would like the media to publish.

thanks gordon


04/22/2004 03:11:59 PM · #4
next thing you know the local news media will not be allowed to discuss the deaths of local military residents and interview their families.

James
04/22/2004 03:13:50 PM · #5
and people still think america is the land of the free....

04/22/2004 03:16:35 PM · #6
Pretty drastic if you happen to remember the years we were in Vietnam. If you're the president and don't want discussion on a topic, make it disappear.
04/22/2004 03:19:10 PM · #7
If someone was taking photos of the casket of one of my family members I'd want them fired too.
04/22/2004 03:20:32 PM · #8
We are certainly free in alot of respects, but unfortunately no country is without propaganda.

So as not to turn this thread into a political conversation, .... back to the photos.

I think as a photographer she did a marvelous job, not only documenting the reality, but showing a sensitive side to it.
I don't think they should have been banned, and I don't think she should have lost her job over it.

Message edited by author 2004-04-22 15:20:50.
04/22/2004 03:21:21 PM · #9
If you read the articles before mouthing off you will find that, out of respect for the families, it is government policy that no photographs be taken until the remains are delivered to the familes.

Take your hatred and peddle it elsewhere.

Message edited by author 2004-04-22 15:22:29.
04/22/2004 03:29:58 PM · #10
This is the article that states the policy...

Seattle Times

Originally posted by Seattle Times:

Pentagon officials yesterday said the government's policy defers to the sensitivities of bereaved families. "We've made sure that all of the installations who are involved with the transfer of remains were aware that we do not allow any media coverage of any of the stops until (the casket) reaches its final destination," said Cynthia Colin, a Pentagon spokeswoman.


Message edited by author 2004-04-22 15:30:39.
04/22/2004 03:32:07 PM · #11
Where was someone mouthing off?
I thought this was a conversation.
Yes, you are right.. families don't need to see this... on the other hand the general populous are made up of voters. These voters have a hand in the outcome of our future, and what decisions are made, and who makes them for us.
I am sorry that you are offended by this. I can understand it.
This thread was really about the photographer who was canned because she felt the need to tell the story. I think that her story actually does justice to those who have died - so that the reality of their sacrifice is not lost on everyone else sitting in their comfy home, and complaining about traffic jams.
These images meant alot to me. In fact, I was complaining about my car having to be fixed .. again. Oh Horrors! Not your car, Karen! Look! People have just died for you so that you can have your own car, and safe place to live!
.... that's how I took it.
04/22/2004 03:32:43 PM · #12
so its a matter of timing of the publishing of the shots? I still don't see why her husband was also fired. And why firing was necessary and not some other form of "discipline" if she did in fact breach govt policy.
04/22/2004 03:34:03 PM · #13
Originally posted by EL-ROI:

If you read the articles before mouthing off you will find that, out of respect for the families, it is government policy that no photographs be taken until the remains are delivered to the familes.

Take your hatred and peddle it elsewhere.


Its not hatred on our part, its the US government suppressing what we see.

It is a sad fact that service members die doing their job, but why hide their deaths???? Its images like this that help people see what is going on and relate on a more emotional level rather than softening it by saying 5 service members have been killed each day for the last 20 days.

Im sorry I would rather see the coffins Vs statistics on a ticker on CNN, when its on a ticker people tend to forget the actual humans involved.

James
04/22/2004 03:37:56 PM · #14
Who was mouthing off??

Originally posted by ellamay:

and people still think america is the land of the free....


Originally posted by jab119:

next thing you know the local news media will not be allowed to discuss the deaths of local military residents and interview their families.

James


Originally posted by pcody:


Pretty drastic if you happen to remember the years we were in Vietnam. If you're the president and don't want discussion on a topic, make it disappear.


There is no hiding going on...reporters are perfectly free to contact the families of the deceased and arrange a portrait session with a flag draped casket. Until the families of the individual bodies have their say, the caskets are off limits. The dead belong to the families they came from, not the government or the voters who elected them to show off for political purposes.
04/22/2004 03:40:40 PM · #15
I didn't read that as mouthing off. They expressed their opinions.
04/22/2004 03:42:25 PM · #16
EL-ROI, don't bother with the logic in here, it's often wasted breath. Besides, it's way more fun to sink to their level of acusitorial bashing and making up of answers!!!
04/22/2004 03:49:46 PM · #17
Originally posted by Russell2566:

EL-ROI, don't bother with the logic in here, it's often wasted breath. Besides, it's way more fun to sink to their level of acusitorial bashing and making up of answers!!!


That is doubtless the most derrogatory and dimissive thing ANYONE has said in this thread. If you disagree with the viewpoints and expressions of some dpc'ers, fine, but why lump everyone together? If this place is so objectionable to you, why bother reading the forums or participating? You're just inciting a namecalling session rather than talking about the merits of that photo or whether or not it was ethical to take it/publish it.
04/22/2004 04:03:34 PM · #18
Originally posted by louddog:

If someone was taking photos of the casket of one of my family members I'd want them fired too.


Not to stir up your emotions but I didn't see in any of the 3 news articles where any coffin or group of coffins was attributed to any remains. One of the things that made the photo so moving to me was that they were all American soldiers; not that I had a particular attachment to any one of them. I can understand someone not wanting the memory or sacrifice of their loved one to be paraded for emotional or political gain but I thought the image was (A) newsworthy and (B) compelling from a photojournalistic angle.

Kev
04/22/2004 04:09:46 PM · #19
Originally posted by Russell2566:

EL-ROI, don't bother with the logic in here, it's often wasted breath. Besides, it's way more fun to sink to their level of acusitorial bashing and making up of answers!!!


There is unspeakable sadness in those photographs. The photographer reached out to express that. I think she should have known the rules, but she might be looked at as brave, if not insensitive.
I think it is mixed with all of that.
I am trying to not be offended by remarks like yours. I hope they are not directed at me. I was only trying to express myself.
04/22/2004 04:28:10 PM · #20
question for El-Roi and Russell2566

have you lost a family member in military service due to war?

I have lost several, many before I was old enough to understand what was going on, or well before I was even born, there is NO record or photos of their caskets available to our family, only a flag in a frame.

It would have been nice to have similar photos of my family members who died serving their country just like the ones the lady took who just got fired for making them public.

James


04/22/2004 04:43:07 PM · #21
Originally posted by jab119:

question for El-Roi and Russell2566

have you lost a family member in military service due to war?

I have lost several, many before I was old enough to understand what was going on, or well before I was even born, there is NO record or photos of their caskets available to our family, only a flag in a frame.

It would have been nice to have similar photos of my family members who died serving their country just like the ones the lady took who just got fired for making them public.

James

They have rich dads who give them lot of toys and Japanese cars and bikes...
They don't know what is to have and not to have and be hungry for a while...
Very sad !
04/22/2004 04:50:03 PM · #22
Originally posted by pitsaman:

They have rich dads who give them lot of toys and Japanese cars and bikes...
They don't know what is to have and not to have and be hungry for a while...
Very sad !


I thought that you were just opinionated, and I could respect that. Now I realize that you are not only opinionated, but are also ignorant.
Very, very sad!

Ron
04/22/2004 04:57:41 PM · #23
Jab119 -

I feel your pain.

Government policy states: no pictures until the caskets get delivered. They leave that up to you to decide. It's your freedom. They don't want to infringe on your right to privacy.

Your comment about the local news was a ficticious stretch to bring an accusation. Stretching the story to include a fabricated account of government bullying the local media is wrong, it's a lie, and I'm going to call you on it!
04/22/2004 05:04:58 PM · #24
Originally posted by EL-ROI:



Government policy states: no pictures until the caskets get delivered. They leave that up to you to decide. It's your freedom. They don't want to infringe on your right to privacy.


The interesting thing is that this is a fairly new policy. For example it wasn't enforced under the previous Bush's government. In fact the original proposal to ban the media was made under the Clinton administration, but not enforced until the start of the current Iraq invasion.

Has your government suddenly got so sentimental and considerate of feelings then ? Or might there possibly be other motives in play ?
04/22/2004 05:05:46 PM · #25
From my perspective, these photos are conventional photojournalism and I don't know what all the fuss is about. had they been taken by any European news outlet, I doubt if it would have led to a sacking - more likely an accolade for having defeated the censor. They are obviously newsworthy precisely since the US Govt does not want such images in the public domain. From a photojournalistic perspective, govt rules are irrelevant. No self-respecting photographer follows the rules of the censor. In terms of taste and decency, the photos do not identify the dead and are thus not offensive on their own terms.

Note that the US Govt is forbidding images of this kind when it itself arranged for photos of Saddam hussain's dead sons to be distributed around the world. Both are forms of censorship which photojournalism seeks to challenge.

Leaving politics out of it, these are images which any photojopurnalist should be seeking to take and they are technically very good.

Edit - I'm aware photographer was in employ of a contractor to US Govt and not herself a photojournalist and thus the sacking was presumably for breach of terms of employment which is fair enough. My point is that these photos stand up as conventional journalistic images

Message edited by author 2004-04-22 17:09:59.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/18/2024 10:22:29 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/18/2024 10:22:29 PM EDT.