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04/22/2004 02:11:16 AM · #1 |
| I'm new to the site (so be gentle w/ me), I went to cast my vote for the "Serendipity" challenge, and had to give up :-( , you see, I became confused. I have been quietly observing things for a couple weeks and thought I had some idea of what things are all about. I figured your vote is based on technical merit, subject matter, how interesting it is, and some overall gut feeling of how the photo "grabs" you. What about the challenge title/subject??? I understand that there is some personal intrepretation involved...but as I was going through the entries...what the ????!!! There are some great shots, but just how loosely does it connect with "serendipity" ? Should a vote take this into consideration? I want to enter a challenge, but couldn't come up with something for "serendipity" that didn't seem so obvious that it would be shot to death, so...believing in delayed gratification, I opted to wait for a challenge that I could connect with. It seems that some people just used this as an excuse to submit anything they wanted to. I guess my main question is...is it always like this or did I just "serendipitously" come upon a very loose topic??? thanks. |
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04/22/2004 02:30:43 AM · #2 |
You'll get many answers but if I feel it doesn't meet the challenge I give it a 1. It could be the best photo of a dog I've ever seen but in a flower challenge it's still a 1. If there were a zero I would give it that.
Now if it just loosely fits the challenge that's where it gets tricky for me. I'll take into consideration all of the other aspects you've mentioned and perhaps deduct a point. Sometimes not. I'll weigh the other aspects of the image more heavily if I feel it meets the challenge in some form.
In answer to your last question, you'll get a range of entries in every challenge. Some fit perfectly, others you just have no idea what the photog was thinking. Sometimes more of one over the other. This one I think could be taken more different ways than some of the other challenges. For example do you photograph something you found serendipitously or do you take a photograph of a serendipitous find? I'm in favor of the latter but many appear to have chosen the former. |
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04/22/2004 02:31:23 AM · #3 |
i am sure that qiuestion beats everbody.. it is like one of those questions that goes : is there life after we die? or what is the meaning to life? or are women the same species as men?
you see you cna take a picture and meet the challenge perfectly with not best but relatively good technical qualifications and still get voted down because someone just wasnt in the mood for that kind of a picture when they were voting or they got disturbed of the image may be because of some unfortunate happening in their childhood or something... it is a mistery remains to be solved..and how about those people who vote 1s and 2s to pictures who dont deserve them a bit...my voting is that i generally give 4 or 5 to an image that fits the challenge but executed extremely poorly.. i give 1, 2 , 3 to pictures who dont fit the challenge and executed extremely poorly.. i give 6-7 to pictures who fit the challenge but were alright and who dont fit the challeneg but extremely well done.. and 8-9-10 to pictures which are really good both because they fit the challenge and they are a delight to look at...so here it is .. i would say just open up your heart and listen to the little man inside of you:) |
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04/22/2004 02:32:41 AM · #4 |
Personally.. I saw some great photos, but I gave out more low-ish scores this challenge than I ever have, I think, and I was still possibly being overly lenient. Very, very few of the pictures matched the challenge and quite frankly I think most people either didn't understand what serendipity means or didn't bother trying to represent it.
I just ended up marking up the ones that actually tried, and marking the ones that succeeded even higher... I think there were three images that I really, really liked that were on topic in total.
My image is one of those that's going completely down the drain, but if people don't find it to represent serendipity, that's fine with me. Personally, I think the subject of the competition is extremely important.. and as much as I hate marking down good photographs, I look at the subject as part of the rules of submission and photographic integrity.
But to each his own. Everyone rates their own way. |
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04/22/2004 02:58:43 AM · #5 |
Personally, from what I can see most everyone on this site is a competent photographer, capable of producing nice shots. Sure, sometimes things get a little wonky, or some people have more technical knowhow/merit than other, but generally everyone can take a decent photo.
The challenge bit comes from both the guidelines of the contest and getting not just a good, competent shot, but a great, resonant shot-something that says "serendipity" in the viewer's mind, not just the photographers. Otherwise the contest could just be titled, "What nice photo did you take this week?"
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 03:00:19. |
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04/22/2004 03:00:13 AM · #6 |
| I guess you joined during the most confusing challenge :) check back next week, it should be fun :) |
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04/22/2004 03:25:44 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Jesuispeure:
Personally, from what I can see most everyone on this site is a competent photographer, capable of producing nice shots. Sure, sometimes things get a little wonky, or some people have more technical knowhow/merit than other, but generally everyone can take a decent photo.
The challenge bit comes from both the guidelines of the contest and getting not just a good, competent shot, but a great, resonant shot-something that says "serendipity" in the viewer's mind, not just the photographers. Otherwise the contest could just be titled, "What nice photo did you take this week?" |
Very well stated! |
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04/22/2004 05:01:07 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by taterbug:
It seems that some people just used this as an excuse to submit anything they wanted to. |
I think that happens in any challenge, but I think you guys are a little quick to judge and vote down everyone...
Originally posted by mocabela:
Personally.. I saw some great photos, but I gave out more low-ish scores this challenge than I ever have, I think, and I was still possibly being overly lenient. Very, very few of the pictures matched the challenge and quite frankly I think most people either didn't understand what serendipity means or didn't bother trying to represent it. |
I most people understand what it means, and I think that many people tried to represent it, and some succeeded. I think looking at the photos with more of an open mind...and thinking, "What was going on here that prompted the photog to get just this shot, maybe in the few minutes leading up to this second right here?" That helped me during voting, and I didn't wind up just giving one after one after one like it appears some of you did.
Serendipity has many loose interpretations, and the voting should be as equally interpretive. I don't enjoy giving ones and twos, or even threes for that matter, unless there is some obvious problem or flaw that should be addressed. I think some folks around this site (not you guys, but I have seen it elsewhere) kind of enjoy bashing others to make them feel more important, which is a shame and also disheartening.
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04/22/2004 05:25:58 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
I most people understand what it means, and I think that many people tried to represent it, and some succeeded. I think looking at the photos with more of an open mind...and thinking, "What was going on here that prompted the photog to get just this shot, maybe in the few minutes leading up to this second right here?" That helped me during voting, and I didn't wind up just giving one after one after one like it appears some of you did.
Serendipity has many loose interpretations, and the voting should be as equally interpretive. I don't enjoy giving ones and twos, or even threes for that matter, unless there is some obvious problem or flaw that should be addressed. I think some folks around this site (not you guys, but I have seen it elsewhere) kind of enjoy bashing others to make them feel more important, which is a shame and also disheartening. |
First off, I personally didn't give out any ones. As I said, I was actually pretty lenient considering the serious stretches. I gave out mainly 4s and 5s, which is low for my usual scoring patterns. But I simply cannot justify giving out high scores when the challenge isn't being met, no matter how good the photo is.. the point is to be challenged on a certain topic, as was said in this thread. I'm all for creative interpretations, but in this case, I really just saw many photographs that were perhaps supposed to represent coming across a good view on accident.... these are somewhat forgivable, because at least that would be something unlooked-for (even though the person obviously had a camera... so was prepared) but some also communicated the idea of luck, but plainly sought after luck (and I don't refer to set-up scenes, I mean something lucky happening.. a wager or whatever, something where the choice is made with the hop of being lucky). These I even forgive a little because at least the person was trying, even though serendipity means a completely unlooked-for good thing. But one cannot forgive everyone for not doing their research into the meaning of a word or concept. One can always elect simply to not enter.
Really, I'm not meaning to sound grumpy on the subject, or judgmental. I just get the sense people didn't understand the topic and assumed no one else did either. Judging by some of the comments I've received, many people apparently thought serendipity meant a candid shot. This could certainly be the case.. it is all in interpretation.
But I'm going by the textbook meaning and the challenge description. |
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04/22/2004 06:55:36 AM · #10 |
| It's a photography site. Simply put, the photo should say more than the title. It's incumbent on the photographer to make the viewer understand what he is trying to convey (without a 33 word title). |
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04/22/2004 07:26:03 AM · #11 |
But I think the photographers feel that in THEIR minds, their photo DOES show what he/she is trying to convey. I don't think people "used this as an excuse to submit anything they wanted to."
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04/22/2004 07:39:06 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by taterbug:
I want to enter a challenge, but couldn't come up with something for "serendipity" that didn't seem so obvious that it would be shot to death, so...believing in delayed gratification, I opted to wait for a challenge that I could connect with. It seems that some people just used this as an excuse to submit anything they wanted to. I guess my main question is...is it always like this or did I just "serendipitously" come upon a very loose topic??? thanks. |
Be bold... go for it next time. In fact, jay walk... today.
All the important rules are taken too seriously but all the silly ones get adhered to. |
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04/22/2004 09:20:31 AM · #13 |
Welcome, taterbug! Nice to see some thought going into the voting process.
I, among many, would never give a 1 for "not meeting the challenge" as my realm of experience in my small world of existance may not be enough to include everyone else's experience. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and score based on the first attributes you listed in your original post.("I figured your vote is based on technical merit, subject matter, how interesting it is, and some overall gut feeling of how the photo "grabs" you.")
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 09:21:50. |
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04/22/2004 09:25:22 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
But I think the photographers feel that in THEIR minds, their photo DOES show what he/she is trying to convey. I don't think people "used this as an excuse to submit anything they wanted to." |
Yes, but I vote using MY mind, not the photographer's. The photographer must communicate his/her vision to me with some clarity. Don't get me wrong, I think voters should give each photographer a fair bit of leeway regarding each challenge. But if the voters don't 'get' a photograph, blame the photographer not the voters. |
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04/22/2004 09:29:59 AM · #15 |
I try to score both with topic and challenge in mind:
If I can see even remotely how you fit the challenge, you start at 4 and go up based on technicals and aesthetics. After I've scored everything, I go through and adjust on a curve, based on the field, to make sure I have given the best photos of the pack 10's (though sometimes, my high score is lower based on judgement of quality).
If you don't meet the challenge no matter how hard I try to figure it out (and I do try), your possible score range is 1-4, where 4 is a work of art but just not relevant to the challenge.
I consider 1's and 2's a bit of an insult to the photog, especially if it looks like they tried to do a good job. I only give out 1's to really really bad photos that don't meet the challenge.
If it's a brown ribbon candidate (really bad, often intentional), you might end up with 3. Sometimes, if I am sure it appears someone is going for a brown ribbon, I will try and help give them a boost toward their goal. ;-)
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 09:34:16. |
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04/22/2004 09:43:10 AM · #16 |
And, please, if you give something a low vote (4 or less) add a comment saying WHY!
I'm getting low votes on mine, and I have no idea why. Is it technically incompetent?
If so, how? Or do you guys just think I missed the challenge? SAY WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND, DARNIT!
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You can assume that, if someone has posted an image here, they think it is good. If you disagree, it's polite to say why.
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Also, my understanding of the rules is that fitness to the challenge is NOT to be taken into account in the voting.
Unless the in-aptness is insultingly blatant, I will just rate by the quality and creativity of the shot.
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 10:32:27. |
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04/22/2004 02:17:44 PM · #17 |
| Great responses! Thank-you, all. It gives me some good "food for thought". I think this is a great site. Everyones obvious passion is very inspirational. I can't wait to start entering challenges and getting feedback. I don't know where else one could go to learn and improve so much. (and believe me, I have a lot to learn) Again, thank-you all, and a special thanks to "Toocool" for "exposing" me to the site and for the inspiration and drive he instills in me. |
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04/22/2004 02:43:30 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by hannafate:
Also, my understanding of the rules is that fitness to the challenge is NOT to be taken into account in the voting.
Unless the in-aptness is insultingly blatant, I will just rate by the quality and creativity of the shot. |
WRONG! Here are the rules regarding voting - and the BOLD is not mine, but added by the site creators to stress the importance of it!
"While voting users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
If you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, it is suggested that you include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score."
So meeting the challenge is the #1 place to start you voting, followed by the other photography parameters.
When commenting, PLEASE leave USEFUL comments!
Good: wow, thats a great photograph
better: i like this picture.....nicely composed. glad the child isn't looking at the camera. b&w is also very adequate
best: Good idea. Wish the child was either looking toward camera or 3/4 pose looking off in thought. Lots of distracting elements in background. Shallow DOF would have helped to focus attention back to the subject of the shot, the boy and sign. Keep nearby tree on right out of frame, competes with vertical line of sign. A lower angle (child's height) might have worked well here, too. Liked your choice of B&W here, try and edit for greater contrast and impact. Keep it up! :)
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04/22/2004 02:48:33 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by taterbug:
Great responses! Thank-you, all. It gives me some good "food for thought". I think this is a great site. Everyones obvious passion is very inspirational. I can't wait to start entering challenges and getting feedback. I don't know where else one could go to learn and improve so much. (and believe me, I have a lot to learn) Again, thank-you all, and a special thanks to "Toocool" for "exposing" me to the site and for the inspiration and drive he instills in me. |
Dude, thanks for the shout out! When ya gonna post up a challenge entry? Let me know if ya need to use my old camera!
Yours
TC |
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04/22/2004 03:17:26 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by hannafate:
And, please, if you give something a low vote (4 or less) add a comment saying WHY!
I'm getting low votes on mine, and I have no idea why. Is it technically incompetent?
If so, how? Or do you guys just think I missed the challenge? SAY WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND, DARNIT!
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Ok... just for you I'll go back and comment on every submission... but I'm going to be brutally honest.
I gave out ALOT very low scores but there are about 3 or 4 that are deserving of higher scores. |
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04/22/2004 03:38:15 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by hannafate:
And, please, if you give something a low vote (4 or less) add a comment saying WHY!
I'm getting low votes on mine, and I have no idea why. Is it technically incompetent?
If so, how? Or do you guys just think I missed the challenge? SAY WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND, DARNIT!
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With many challenges with 300 or more entries, it isn't going to happen.
I do personally post comments, most often constructive. But that's very time consuming. And I don't think people appreciate a comment "I don't see how this meets the challenge.
I think it would be nice to have, as suggested elsewhere a couple of buttons we could press: Maybe three scales: 1-10 on how it meets the challenge, 1-10 on technical merit, 1-10 on aesthetics
That would eliminate the need for those unhelpful one line comments. |
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04/22/2004 03:57:55 PM · #22 |
For my Serendipity entry:
Votes: 145
Avg Vote: 4.1448
Comments: 0
Updated: 04/22/04 03:00 pm
I know it's not a perfect photo, not even close. I made the decision to enter something rather than not at all, and predicted that many folks wouldn't like it. BUT I'd still like to know which of the several possible reasons they've chosen even if it's only (sigh) "doesn't fit the challenge."
On the other hand, I've only commented on 22 so far, and voted on many more--it's only Thursday and I'll get to work on those I've voted low when I'm not in a nasty mood. |
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04/22/2004 04:13:03 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Comments: 0
I know it's not a perfect photo, not even close. I made the decision to enter something rather than not at all, and predicted that many folks wouldn't like it. BUT I'd still like to know which of the several possible reasons they've chosen even if it's only (sigh) "doesn't fit the challenge." |
It's still very early.
This is how I do my voting: I go through all photos and vote with my gut instinct, not leaving comments. Once I'm done I'll spend the next few days browsing by my vote number and sorting through those and commenting where I think a photo needs a comment. I usually tease out a few that sing to me on repeated viewings and mark them up. I'm not terribly likely to go in an change a vote down.
I do this using two different computers (one at work and one at home) so that I can tell if there are any variations depending on my monitor and my mood.
Hopefully before the weekend I'll have comments up on about 20-30% of the (the helpful kind).
I'm terribly new to this site and this is the first challenge I've participated in and the second I've voted on. So if anyone has any comments on my voting style, please feel free to chime in. |
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04/22/2004 04:43:15 PM · #24 |
| KaDi, I think a 4 is going to be a pretty good score on this challenge. Scores will probably be low as so many of the photos didn't fit the challenge. Even if scores aren't lower than average, it seems like it only takes a 6 or so to get in the top ten. 4 ain't bad. =) |
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04/22/2004 05:06:41 PM · #25 |
I was trying to find the lowest scored blue ribbon in the archives...
so far it's 6.6 |
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