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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> I will never use PayPal with eBay again!
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 08/24/2008 11:56:41 PM · #1
I have been a Premier PayPal customer over 8 years and even have one of their nice little Premier PayPal BusinessCard. In the 8 years that I have been a member of PayPal today was my first disappointment with them.

I placed my Tamron 28-75mm lens on eBay using PayPal as the only method of payment. The lens sold for $250.00 USD and the buyer sent his payment promptly. But when I went to check everything so I could ship tomorrow I find that PayPal has put a hold on the funds. What???? I thought to myself. I called PayPal and they said it’s because I don’t have a 100 feedbacks in past 12 months. I only have 19 total with eBay in my four years of being a member. I just don’t do a lot of auctions.

My 19 transactions with eBay are 100% positive.
I have never had a complaint filed against me from a buyer through eBay or PayPal.
I have a (42) positive score with Paypal. That’s means all my transactions have been good with no complaints.

I called PayPal today and after talking to them for a few minutes I told the PayPal representative that I might have to evaluate whether its feasible to keeping my PayPal account. My argument was that I could have accepted a Bank Cashiers Check and it would arrive quicker by snail mail than an instant PayPal transaction and would not had to absorb PayPal fees.

Now I must ship the item (this I know and do timely), wait for the buyer to receive the item, and then wait for the buyer to post positive feedback before I have access to my funds. What if the buyer does not leave feedback?

If the buyer does not post feedback I must provide proof that the item was shipped and claimed then wait 3 more days before funds are made available. What if I don’t do that?

If that don’t happen then I have to wait 21 days without any dispute before funds become available.

WoW! May have to wait 28 days (almost a month) to have access to my funds.

I am all for protecting the buyer but what about the seller. This policy is no more than a way for eBay and PayPal to hold funds and draw interest of your money. At least that is the way I see it.

They should have a exception clause for 100% positive members, both eBay and PayPal, like me to have access to their funds. The way it works now the buyer will be using the lens before I even get a dime. Not to mention that PayPal charged me $8.99 for all this hassle on top of eBay fees of $15.07.

Don’t look like I came out to the good, does it?

Lesson learned!
08/25/2008 12:08:28 AM · #2
Sorry to hear your troubles. I used to sell stuff on ebay all the time and quit for similar reasons. They nickel and dime you for every little thing now! If I were the one in your position, I would wait until the funds clear (if they think it will be within a reasonable amount of time). Every buyer I've ever dealt with understood that goods aren't shipped until they're paid for, for whatever the reason.
Make sure if you're shipping via USPS to get delivery confirmation, that's just about the only insurance policy you can have for a paypal transaction. I've heard too many bad stories from sellers who didn't get delivery confirmation and the buyer claimed they never got the item. If you don't have any kind of delivery confirmation paypal makes you refund the money.
Good luck!!!
 08/25/2008 12:22:42 AM · #3
Wow! When did this change happen. I just sold 2000 dollars worth of amateur radio equipment and had no problems. In fact I just now went over to PayPal and withdrew the remainder I'd left in just in case I wanted to buy something. I've been a member of eBay since '99 and PayPal not much later and probably never had more than 100 feed back for that period. Probably had 50 more transactions but people are too lazy to give feedback.
I sure don't like the new "no negative feedback" for buyers. That sucks a big one and I think it's about time for the eBay monopoly to end. The no feedback for buyers makes it hard to identify the problem children. Oh, well. It's good I don't use it much.
 08/25/2008 12:23:07 AM · #4
That sucks, Scott. I heard someone this week complaining about the same delays. It seems crazy to me.
 08/25/2008 12:27:56 AM · #5
Originally posted by fir3bird:

I sure don't like the new "no negative feedback" for buyers. That sucks a big one and I think it's about time for the eBay monopoly to end. The no feedback for buyers makes it hard to identify the problem children. Oh, well. It's good I don't use it much.

I agree, that new rule is crap!
 08/25/2008 12:30:12 AM · #6
I agree with ICU about the USPS and delivery confirmation, so that you will have quick record that the item was delivered to the right person. I have never sold on eBay, but buy camera things there almost every month, and pay with PPal. So far so good for me, but I hate to hear that they are trashing the low volume sellers with their new policies.
08/25/2008 12:43:47 AM · #7
Funny thing about delivery confirmation, I occasionally buy used photo books on eBay. They are usually shipped media mail. The last two times I received such shipments they came postage due and it was for the delivery conformation the seller/shipper used! I confronted the PO about this and I had to pay or they'd send the stuff back. When contacting both sellers I got no reply. I asked at the PO if I could send media mail with delivery conformation and have the conformation paid by the recipient and they flatly said no. So I'm mystified about this one. LOL
 08/25/2008 12:46:56 AM · #8
Oh I will ship the item out tomorrow, it's not the Buyers fault nor mine. Just a stupid thing that PayPal and eBay has going. Like I said, they may say it is to curve fraud but you know just as well as I do it's to make them money. When they pool a lot of peoples money by holding funds they earn a great amount of interest per day.

Here is a copy paste from PayPal about why holds happen. The two instances in bold is what held my funds.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Policy for payment holds for eBay items

What is a payment hold for eBay items?
It is a hold that PayPal places on a payment you receive for an item you sold on eBay. The amounts held will be shown as "Pending" in your PayPal account. You still have access to all other funds in your PayPal account.

Why are my payments being held?
Payment holds for eBay items are an effort to increase marketplace safety. We hold payments when we suspect a transaction may be risky. Here are the most common instances in which an eBay item payment may be held:

* You have been an eBay member for less than 6 months, and you sell an item for more than $100
* You have an eBay feedback score of less than 100, and you sell an item for more than $100 -This is what held up my funds!
* You have a buyer dissatisfaction percentage* greater than 5%
* You have an average DSR of less than 4.5
* You have received fewer than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months -This is what held up my funds!
* You are listing your item in a high-risk category such as gift certificates, video games, cell phones, computers, or consumer electronics. I find this one interesting. Anyone could be subject to have their funds held with this clause

When will PayPal release the hold?
Your funds will be released when one of the following occurs:

* The buyer leaves you positive feedback
* 3 days pass after proof the item was delivered**
* 21 days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on the transaction

We may hold the funds longer if your buyer files a dispute, claim, chargeback, reversal or has otherwise taken action to dispute the transaction.

Learn more about the PayPal policy for payment holds for eBay items.

* Buyer dissatisfaction percentage is measured by adding negative events as a percentage of your transactions. Negative events include negative & neutral Feedback, Detailed Seller Ratings scores of 2 or less, and Item Not Received or Significantly Not As Described disputes.

** This applies to US domestic transactions that are shipped by USPS, FedEx, or UPS and either (i) use PayPal shipping labels to ship items or (ii) upload tracking information to PayPal via the transaction details page. If a payment is being held, it will be shown as "Pending" in your PayPal account until it is released.
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08/25/2008 01:04:32 AM · #9
Paypal has always been to sh** on buyer nothing new there...
As for a good secondary money handler Alertpay is picking up steam fast

Plus I think they may beat paypal to the punch with a widely offered debit card ;)
 08/25/2008 01:13:36 AM · #10
Originally posted by smjbmw:
Paypal has always been to sh** on buyer nothing new there...
As for a good secondary money handler Alertpay is picking up steam fast

Plus I think they may beat paypal to the punch with a widely offered debit card ;)


Alertpay sounds promising. I took a look at the website and will read up on it tomorrow. I hate to leave PP after 8 years but...well you can see from above.
08/25/2008 04:42:37 PM · #11
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Funny thing about delivery confirmation, I occasionally buy used photo books on eBay. They are usually shipped media mail. The last two times I received such shipments they came postage due and it was for the delivery conformation the seller/shipper used! I confronted the PO about this and I had to pay or they'd send the stuff back. When contacting both sellers I got no reply. I asked at the PO if I could send media mail with delivery conformation and have the conformation paid by the recipient and they flatly said no. So I'm mystified about this one. LOL

I hope you reported the sellers! Sounds a little shady to me!
 08/25/2008 04:45:41 PM · #12
Huh????

I never have problems with paypal. I only have about 25 comments??!?!?
 08/25/2008 04:53:03 PM · #13
This happened to me 1 year ago with paypal...I copied the buyer a copy of what paypal said, and advised I would not be shipping until funds cleared with paypal and he must send confirmation to paypal that we mutually agreed to shipment/payment terms. Had no complaint from buyer at all until almost a month later (see below). It is safer that way as well because the buyer can say you sent a defective item after they have played with it and broke themselves over the course of the funds clearing, you get the money cleared then the buyer files a claim for defective item...then your funds are frozen again until resolved!

I shipped "used" books to a Canadian buyer...he got them and 28 days after confirmed delivery, filed a claim stating the books were not what he was expecting. My funds were frozen for another 30 days until the buyer decided he would take a partial refund as settlement. Total price was $340.00 US, I refunded $100.00 US, but could not buy/sell/or use paypal for 30 days as my account was frozen pending a compromise.

That was my one and only problem...so I am very careful now, but average almost $12,000.00 per year selling on Ebay.

Message edited by author 2008-08-25 16:54:10.
 08/25/2008 04:53:38 PM · #14
wow that sucksballs!!! I hate Paypal and I have been staying away from ebay for a while also..... too many scams on both of them and Paypal is just horrible now.
 08/25/2008 05:15:42 PM · #15
While I have been pretty lucky overall with eBay and PayPal. One or problems, but never out any money.

A co-worker had a horror story happen to him a few months back. He happened to be on line, when he got confirmations of expenditures via PayPal, and bid confirmations, and listing confirmations from eBay, that he had not made. Somehow somebody got his bank routing number (I suspect a phishing site, he swears it ain't so). With the bank routing number the person was able to get into the PayPal account, and change his password. He was actually on the phone with PayPal as the person was getting into his account. He would change the password and they would change it again. In the end he had eBay and PayPal close his accounts, as it was the only way to stop the thefts. The person getting into his account was sending everything to Germany.

Bottom line, he no longer uses either eBay or PayPal, and just buys what he needs new.
 08/25/2008 05:31:19 PM · #16
Originally posted by kenskid:
Huh????

I never have problems with paypal. I only have about 25 comments??!?!?

I know! This is the first problem I have had with PayPal and I have been a Premier Members since 2000. After talking to them over the phone I found out it was because I had not had any transactions with eBay in the last 12 months. Even though I have been a eBay member for 4 years with no negative feedback. I have a total of 19 total transactions with ebay (20 when this transaction is complete) with 100% positive feedback rating. I have 42 PayPal transactions, all Positive.

I shipped the lens this morning and contacted the Buyer. I gave him his confirmation number and insurance number. And asked him to please leave feedback when he receives the lens. I believe him to be a very good eBay buyer. I have already posted Positive feedback for him.

My opinion is that PayPal and eBay (since eBay now owns PayPal) have this setup not so much to curve fraud but to hold funds in attempts to collect interest on your money.

Some may say it's no big deal but to me it is. I like for my transaction to be completed with PayPal because of the 1.5% back I get when I use my PayPal Premier Business card. So I pay eBay and Shipping and Handling with the card. With the funds not available it makes me use my own funds and I don't get the 1.5% cash back.

Oh well, Like I said - Lesson Learned!

I will keep PayPal but when using it in combination with eBay I will offer the buyer the option of Cashiers Check.

-Scott

Message edited by author 2008-08-25 17:32:35.
 08/25/2008 06:10:33 PM · #17
Sorry to hear your probs ... I've also got a low opinion of paypal, you can read my probs here

and if you are on facebook you can support my group
 08/25/2008 06:14:10 PM · #18
eBay Australia recently tried to change the rules so that people could ONLY use PayPal for all transactions (except Cars/Houses, and for anything picked up in person). It was pitched as being about enhancing security of payments, but many people here saw it as only enhancing the security of eBay's shareholder dividends.

In the end there were hundreds of submissions to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), ranging from individual sellers to PayPal competitors to the Reserve Bank of Australia. ACCC eventually ruled that the benefits weren't enough to warrant endorsing an anti-competitive market, eBay said they were going to fight the ruling but eventually went quiet. Eventually eBay abandoned the whole idea - but not before losing members to competing auction sites.

PayPal have always refused to be signatories to the Australian banking industy's Electronic Funds Transfer Code of Conduct, which effectively made PayPal a law unto themselves.
 08/25/2008 06:25:43 PM · #19
That rule is absurd!! I didn't even realize that Paypal was doing that..
I have around 295 feedback, and only list every couple months or so. I have had my share of Paypal issues but even with the problems, the good transactions still outweigh the bad ones. I ship everything USPS Priority Mail w/Delivery Confirmation to cut down on anyone saying they didn't recieve their items.. mainly because I HATE the new "no negative feedback for buyers".. that is equally as ridiculous as this rule you are talking about. I think the fees are way to high, but I try not to list unless I can make enough to cover all fees and still make a decent profit. I ship only once I have received payment, but have also had the buyer reverse a payment after I had shipped. That was not a fun one to recover.. but I finally did get my $$.

I feel for you, but hang in there.. maybe it will all go through quickly and you won't have to wait long at all. Good Luck!
 08/25/2008 06:36:37 PM · #20
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Huh????

I never have problems with paypal. I only have about 25 comments??!?!?

I know! This is the first problem I have had with PayPal and I have been a Premier Members since 2000. After talking to them over the phone I found out it was because I had not had any transactions with eBay in the last 12 months. Even though I have been a eBay member for 4 years with no negative feedback. I have a total of 19 total transactions with ebay (20 when this transaction is complete) with 100% positive feedback rating. I have 42 PayPal transactions, all Positive.

I shipped the lens this morning and contacted the Buyer. I gave him his confirmation number and insurance number. And asked him to please leave feedback when he receives the lens. I believe him to be a very good eBay buyer. I have already posted Positive feedback for him.

My opinion is that PayPal and eBay (since eBay now owns PayPal) have this setup not so much to curve fraud but to hold funds in attempts to collect interest on your money.

Some may say it's no big deal but to me it is. I like for my transaction to be completed with PayPal because of the 1.5% back I get when I use my PayPal Premier Business card. So I pay eBay and Shipping and Handling with the card. With the funds not available it makes me use my own funds and I don't get the 1.5% cash back.

Oh well, Like I said - Lesson Learned!

I will keep PayPal but when using it in combination with eBay I will offer the buyer the option of Cashiers Check.

-Scott


I pay all fees like you do as well...it helps recover half of the 3% paypal charges to accept payments.
 08/25/2008 06:47:27 PM · #21
Just remember that ebay owns paypal now...

08/25/2008 07:14:16 PM · #22
Originally posted by SDW:
I have been a Premier PayPal customer over 8 years and even have one of their nice little Premier PayPal BusinessCard. In the 8 years that I have been a member of PayPal today was my first disappointment with them.

I placed my Tamron 28-75mm lens on eBay using PayPal as the only method of payment. The lens sold for $250.00 USD and the buyer sent his payment promptly. But when I went to check everything so I could ship tomorrow I find that PayPal has put a hold on the funds. What???? I thought to myself. I called PayPal and they said it’s because I don’t have a 100 feedbacks in past 12 months. I only have 19 total with eBay in my four years of being a member. I just don’t do a lot of auctions.

My 19 transactions with eBay are 100% positive.
I have never had a complaint filed against me from a buyer through eBay or PayPal.
I have a (42) positive score with Paypal. That’s means all my transactions have been good with no complaints.

I called PayPal today and after talking to them for a few minutes I told the PayPal representative that I might have to evaluate whether its feasible to keeping my PayPal account. My argument was that I could have accepted a Bank Cashiers Check and it would arrive quicker by snail mail than an instant PayPal transaction and would not had to absorb PayPal fees.

Now I must ship the item (this I know and do timely), wait for the buyer to receive the item, and then wait for the buyer to post positive feedback before I have access to my funds. What if the buyer does not leave feedback?

If the buyer does not post feedback I must provide proof that the item was shipped and claimed then wait 3 more days before funds are made available. What if I don’t do that?

If that don’t happen then I have to wait 21 days without any dispute before funds become available.

WoW! May have to wait 28 days (almost a month) to have access to my funds.

I am all for protecting the buyer but what about the seller. This policy is no more than a way for eBay and PayPal to hold funds and draw interest of your money. At least that is the way I see it.

They should have a exception clause for 100% positive members, both eBay and PayPal, like me to have access to their funds. The way it works now the buyer will be using the lens before I even get a dime. Not to mention that PayPal charged me $8.99 for all this hassle on top of eBay fees of $15.07.

Don’t look like I came out to the good, does it?

Lesson learned!


Well, checks and money orders are about to be not allowed too.
 08/25/2008 07:58:22 PM · #23
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Well, checks and money orders are about to be not allowed too.


And you got this information from where?
Sounds very unlikely.
 08/25/2008 08:48:48 PM · #24
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Well, checks and money orders are about to be not allowed too.


And you got this information from where?
Sounds very unlikely.


Steeeeeeraight from ebay, my friend.

"Starting this fall, we're moving to an electronic checkout process that's faster and more reliable for sellers and buyers. As part of this move, checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay, although buyers can still use these payment methods for item pick-up, at the seller's discretion."

//www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200808.shtml#2008-08-20070116
 08/26/2008 12:45:07 AM · #25
Holy sh*t!! I used to buy and sell on ebay all of the time. I recently bought something but haven't sold anything in over a year. WOW Since they are the only game in town (well not really, but the marketplace with the most choices of items), I wonder if enough people complained, if it would make any difference. I'm still in shock.

I just checked out their forums and people are bitching left and right. I can't imagine that "the powers that be" don't read them. Since they have major advertisers like Proctor and Gamble, someone suggested writing to their advertisers and telling them they will no longer buy their products until Ebay and Paypal change their policies. It would take some doing, to find the proper people to contact, but it might be worth it. Just writing to Ebay direct might create a surge of protest and maybe they'd listen. Who knows. I'd be more than willing to write a few nasty letters and/or emails. :~]

Message edited by author 2008-08-26 01:04:25.
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