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07/12/2008 05:30:51 PM · #1 |
Based on the success of my last shoot, I'm thinking about starting a very small business...seeing as I'm only just graduated from high school and don't have a huge amount of either equipment or money -- especially not enough money to set up a studio -- I was thinking of making it a get-your-own-prints kind of thing.
I was thinking of charging:
$40 base fee (2 locations, 2 hours, 3 outfits)
Transportation fee (amt of money I need to get wherever)
$25 per extra hour
$25 per extra location
Includes 5 hi-res images, $5 per extra image
I really need about $500 to pay for college books and dorm stuff. Even if I only get 5 people, it'd be enough.
Now, my question is, is this a good idea? Or is it something I should wait on doing until I have a bit more money?
The thing I'm most afraid of is getting someone who I have no idea how to shoot...or a location I know nothing about...
Message edited by author 2008-07-12 17:32:47. |
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07/12/2008 05:46:15 PM · #2 |
I am not saying it is a good or bad idea...but you at least need a few better lenses..than the kit lense.
:D
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07/12/2008 05:49:38 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by egamble:
I am not saying it is a good or bad idea...but you at least need a few better lenses..than the kit lense.
:D |
lol yes, see, I have a dilemma. I don't have any money, so I can't buy lenses. If I start the business, I'd get money...but I can't because I don't have any lenses. whee! |
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07/12/2008 05:49:39 PM · #4 |
I agree, getting some more lenses would help.
Originally posted by egamble:
I am not saying it is a good or bad idea...but you at least need a few better lenses..than the kit lense.
:D |
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07/12/2008 06:22:53 PM · #5 |
I understand you're just starting out and may be gearing your service to those with less disposible income but feel that your base rate is a little low. Also, are you trying to discourage extra hours or locations? It seems that way with a higher hourly rate/location fee for adding locations and hours.
If you still want to keep the charge low, why not have a base of $50 and additional hours at $20? Additional locations could still be set at $25 depending on how much trouble etc it is for setup at each location.
Just some thoughts from someone who doesn't do location/portrait shooting. |
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07/12/2008 06:28:24 PM · #6 |
I think your rates need some work as well. Main thing like everyone has said...get some better gear to work with. Maybe get a job setup and rent some lenses?
Here is the pricing I try to stay with....
//www.bigdphoto.com/pricing.html
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07/12/2008 06:46:29 PM · #7 |
It's tempting to get into equipment but I disagree.... Despite what all of us delude ourselves into, equipment makes less difference then we like to admit EXCEPT on the edges. So what do I mean by the edges... In sunshine @f8 not shooting into the sun that kit lens is not your limiting factor... at night or if you want shallow DOF or into the sun, you will notice it pretty quickly. If you want to shoot motorsport, then it's clearly not going to cut it :-) So use it where it works well and don't where it fails you (it's just that old joke, it hurts when I do this... well don't do that). If you have to rent fine but would be better to pick your battles and do so with what you can do with your current gear and expand the gear as you find stuff that you cannot do or is a pain without something better.
Since you going to expando gear anyway :-) From that earlier shoot if this is what you want to do, I would suggest something faster like the 50f1.8 (<$100) to get some DOF but it's your call if that is where you want to go. Another option would be a decent flash if you want to fgo that way (see strobist for off camera using cheap strobes and some duct tape). Buy some foamcore (or steal some real estate signs if need be) or other cheap reflector type stuff and use that.
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07/12/2008 07:40:56 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Truegsht:
I think your rates need some work as well. Main thing like everyone has said...get some better gear to work with. Maybe get a job setup and rent some lenses?
Here is the pricing I try to stay with....
//www.bigdphoto.com/pricing.html |
I would say that price list is mightily expensive for the kind of job he does. I think the prices he posted are fair enough, maybe lower the extra charges (it's better to get more hours at a little pay than no extra hours at all).
And a good advice would be to advertice all you can - tell your mom to tell her friends, set up a nicely written note at places you know, that sort of thing. It would be a good idea to discus locations and ideas beforehand, you could also possibly check out the places so you know what too shoot. Being prepared is always a good thing :)
Oh, and gear wise: If you don't know what difference it makes to have a different lense, then there's no need buying it. I'm not saying you don't, but running out spending money on new equipment for the sake of having 'the right stuff' is not nearly as important as being good at taking great photos with what you've got.
Let us know how it goes, right? |
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07/12/2008 10:28:10 PM · #9 |
Thanks for the advice everyone! The consensus seems to be that I should probably get/rent another lens before I start...suggestions? I'm currently looking at the 50mm f/1.8, the 55-250mm f/4-5.6, and the 75-300mm f/4-5.6. Suggestions? I may just stick with the long end of the kit lens for a while, at least until I can afford a lens. (On the other hand, anyone looking to get rid of one of the aforementioned lenses? lol!) Lenses are so expensive though, I should probably learn to do well with what I've got before I go looking to get a better lens. It would be a stretch to afford even the 50mm f/1.8.
I've done a few shoots with friends of mine and told them to get busy advertising for me, lol. I hope to do some from a local high school and start building a customer base...I might list myself on craigslist and put an ad in the paper.
Okay so updated rates:
$50 base fee (2 locations, 2 hours, 3 outfits)
Transportation fee (amt of money I need to get wherever)
$20 per extra hour ($10 for extra half hour, and so on)
$20 per extra location
Includes 5 hi-res images, $5 per extra image
How much of a pro's fee is prints? (did that make sense?)
Should I see if I can make a deal with Meijer? (Meijer is a lot like walmart except it does much better at photos and is only in IN and the directly surrounding states) Sort of a "if you have prints from j.lynn.r PHOTO, get 10% off" type deal...this would ensure that the prints end up being good quality...well better than wal-mart or CVS anyways.
I bought a piece of foam board! Yay reflectors! I could probably make a diffusor, given time and materials, pretty easily. Looking at flashes (saw a diffusor for on-board flash, could probably make one of those)...any suggestions in the <$50 range?
Thanks again for all your help! |
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07/12/2008 10:56:11 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
I'm currently looking at the 50mm f/1.8, the 55-250mm f/4-5.6, and the 75-300mm f/4-5.6. Suggestions? |
The 50mm f/1.8 II is a great lens for portraiture... I purchased here: //www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
For $89.95, it was a great deal to me. Works good for lower aperture in low light , sharp images, limited depth of field that really draws the subject matter out and provides incredible bokeh, it is slow to focus and there is no zoom, but this would be a good choice on a budget.
I went for a long time before I could buy anything new...just had to use what I had and do my best. I still can't afford what I want, but I'm working on it a little at a time. If you keep working at it, you will get where you want to be with strong determination.
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07/12/2008 10:56:50 PM · #11 |
If you are going to do a lot of portraits then I highly recommend getting the 50m 1.8 first .. it is not expensive and it does really nice portraits. :) This is one I took of my youngest with that lens without a lot of effort  |
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07/12/2008 11:20:32 PM · #12 |
If people are willing to pay you, then you should charge somewhere around the going rate. Why? First, don't devalue the product of the profession you're trying to enter - it's not in your own best interest. Either your work is professional or not. High prices come with more demand than supply, notariety/fame, etc.
If you're charging money you are in business - and all that entails. Liability - for you and your client "Step up there so I can get a better angle" and they fall - YOU are liable for their injury. Equipment - you need extras of everything cause stuff breaks and acts up. Perhaps during a portrait session you can take 10 minutes to monkey with an ERR 99 or try to find out why the flash won't work - but it's more professional just to grab the backup and keep going. No backup? Then you go home, huh? Not very professional.
If you're charging money you have to pay taxes - sales tax, income tax. And so not to pay too much you have to keep records of what you spend - on gear, education, travel, materials, prints, etc, etc. You never know who your next client is - could be an IRS employee - they get married and have portraits made too. Many business have been padlocked and failed for not paying their taxes. And you may need a business license. Just like a driver's license you don't need it till you need it, then you better have it!
You'll need samples to show folks what you do. You'll want business cards. They'll ask for price lists, so you'll need that too. And a filing system to track all this.
It takes around $20,000 to start a photography business - and that's not including a studio. Search the forums here and you'll see my list of what that twenty grand gets you - and it's not 1D bodies either.
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07/13/2008 12:01:35 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
Based on the success of my last shoot, I'm thinking about starting a very small business...seeing as I'm only just graduated from high school and don't have a huge amount of either equipment or money -- especially not enough money to set up a studio -- I was thinking of making it a get-your-own-prints kind of thing.
Now, my question is, is this a good idea? Or is it something I should wait on doing until I have a bit more money? |
i think it's a splendid idea, a great way to pick up some cash. just keep it real simple. charge $100 and let that include a session and a 3 8x12 sheets of prints (which could be 3 8x10s, or an 8x10 and 8 4x6s--whatever will print on 3 sheets of paper). let the sessions be up to one hour. don't worry about poses or change of clothes or anything else. just let your clients know they can do whatever they want wherever they want for about an hour and you'll shoot it up. hook up with an online service (i use Exposure Manager) that allows you to use prepaid coupons, and you're good to go. do get some business cards that you can pass around and leave on bulletin boards around town. maybe think of splitting the money you make between school books and another lens or two.
don't worry about having to go over the top to get started. just have fun, make some money, treat people right. your customers should have no illusion about what they're getting into with you, so don't even worry about trying to compete with the studios. all you have to do is a few good jobs and you should be able to pick up more than enough word-of-mouth business to exceed your initial goals. good luck! |
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07/13/2008 01:23:43 AM · #14 |
Lol, such conflicting opinions!
@Prof-Fate: I can probably deal with a business license (assuming they don't cost a billion dollars). Or my mom has a business...I can probably find a way to piggyback this onto hers if I try hard enough...not sure this would really count as a business anyways...
There's nothing I can do about backup equipment, unless I want to take a basic p&s along for the ride...
lol I have to say that your reply scared me to death.
@Skip: Thanks for the support! Looking at exposure manager and other places like smugmug, those look way to expensive. What if I were to get a member account here on DPC and then print using DPC Prints...? Is this a good idea or an exploitation of the prints system?
Message edited by author 2008-07-13 01:29:05. |
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07/13/2008 01:21:27 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
Based on the success of my last shoot, I'm thinking about starting a very small business...seeing as I'm only just graduated from high school and don't have a huge amount of either equipment or money -- especially not enough money to set up a studio -- I was thinking of making it a get-your-own-prints kind of thing.
I was thinking of charging:
$40 base fee (2 locations, 2 hours, 3 outfits)
Transportation fee (amt of money I need to get wherever)
$25 per extra hour
$25 per extra location
Includes 5 hi-res images, $5 per extra image
I really need about $500 to pay for college books and dorm stuff. Even if I only get 5 people, it'd be enough.
Now, my question is, is this a good idea? Or is it something I should wait on doing until I have a bit more money?
The thing I'm most afraid of is getting someone who I have no idea how to shoot...or a location I know nothing about... |
Hi! :)
As far as I'm in the business of retouching wedding photographs I see what's the equipment used for that business and it's pretty high. Canon 5D is usual, with prime L lenses and sometimes, with flashes out the camera (4 in each corner of the room), not TTL.
For the other side, lot of people do weddings and they charge from US$600 to US$6000, depending on the country. Singapore is the most expensive country for weddings, Australia is pretty cheap and USA and Engñand quite high but not as Singapore.
This business comes with lot of packages, usually 5: Copper, Gold, Silver, Diamond and Story Book, being the last one the most expensive.
It's all studyed and it's impossible to improvise inside this business. You should think working with some experimented photographer as assistant or as second camera before shooting by your self.
For the other hand, it's not what you want to do, it's just a manner to get some cash and that will be agaisnt your goal, which is not shooting weddings, so probably, you will eb wasting your time in something which is not in the area of your interests. I mean, when we try to get something just for the cash, we don't do enough to get that cash. |
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07/13/2008 01:41:22 PM · #16 |
Regardless of what everyone says I say go for it, just maybe lower the price for a second location or what someone said above me about 50$ .
ANYWAYS
I started in the same boat you did. No money, limited equipment, you gotta make money to buy equipment so I got a job, and did shoots on my days off or when I had time. I had no studio (and I still don't) but we picked locations that made it work for them. What I am trying to say is you have to start somewhere. And yes I used my kit lense.
The first shoots I did for free (-incoming rants!-) but mostly because I just wanted practice and I would most certainly let them know that (hence why it was free). Afterwards, they told their friends, and their friends told their friends and it went on from there :)
-Edit-
and just so you know where I started
This is my Nikon Coolpix 3.2 MP (shudder!but this was a few years back)Anyways, because of my lack of equipment this was done using windowlight, with a plain white bedsheet (yes I said bedsheet) in the background
P/S 3.2 MP Portrait Example
and this is using my kit lense (AND FOR THE RECORD its not a real gun!!) the quality sucks because I uploaded it to my myspace, but I was pleased with the results, its not as much about what kind of equipment you have although it pays off to have nicer things, but you also have to learn to work with what you have. I still don't have a studio, so I still search for good possible locations
Rebel XTI Kit Lense
and like I said their friends told even more friends, and yes I did it for the money, no im not ashamed to admit that, and as you can see, I got a WIDE variety of people to shoot
Message edited by author 2008-07-13 13:50:17. |
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07/13/2008 03:21:58 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
Now, my question is, is this a good idea? Or is it something I should wait on doing until I have a bit more money? |
If you wait until you have more money, then you’ll already have enough for the college stuff, right? So, why wait? If you just want to make a little cash on the side, then just go for it. You can always buy better equipment later if you decide that you want to turn it into a real business.
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
The thing I'm most afraid of is getting someone who I have no idea how to shoot...or a location I know nothing about... |
Therein lies the challenge. The question is, are you up for it? :)
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07/15/2008 01:15:57 AM · #18 |
I think I might decide actually to charge $100 or $150 for the base and then the same for the extras...there are only two other photo places in the area, one is usually around $800 and I think the other might be only a little bit cheaper.
Here's the website I've built (it's not quite done yet, the only page that really works is the "about" page). Does it look good or too unprofessional?
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07/15/2008 06:16:21 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by JesiLynR:
I think I might decide actually to charge $100 or $150 for the base and then the same for the extras...there are only two other photo places in the area, one is usually around $800 and I think the other might be only a little bit cheaper.
Here's the website I've built (it's not quite done yet, the only page that really works is the "about" page). Does it look good or too unprofessional? |
I love the design of it - it's different and visitors will definitely remember it. It's also fairly easy to navigate. I can't stand those 'Powered by Freewebs' buttons though - that is what makes it look very unprofessional. |
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07/15/2008 08:09:46 AM · #20 |
I like your website....is this the site you are going to use to promote your new photography business? If so, I would re-word the sentence in the 'about' page....where you say you have 'only recently begun to explore the area of photography'.
Message edited by author 2008-07-15 08:10:54. |
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07/15/2008 08:26:18 AM · #21 |
I love that you are pushing ahead with this, and not let 'worries' slow you down!
That said, a few concerns...
- The persons on your website - do you have model releases for them? DO you need one?
- Insurance is somewhat expensive when starting out, but it should absolutely be one of your first investments. Just one bad day, and you could be paying for years to repair someone's carpet / garments / baby :D
- You mentioned 'making a deal with Mieres'. That probably won't happen unless you bring them MASSIVE amounts of business. Instead, get the prints yourself, price to what YOU want to sell them for, then consider discounts based on volume of sale. Sending people to a printer is a huge loss of potential income. Besides, why would you 'give away' the files to people? Allow them to share one or two images for online use (only at 72 ppi, so they're no good for printing), BUT be sure to include your logo on the image... free advertising, AND they love you for giving them a pic for their MySpace / Facebook / whatever.
Message edited by author 2008-07-15 08:27:36. |
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07/15/2008 06:15:36 PM · #22 |
Would it be OK, do you think, to print using the DPCPrints system? Or would that be taking advantage of it?
The freewebs buttons...ugh I hate them too, lol. I've only just now figured out the way to get rid of them, yay!! (There's a checker that runs through and checks to see that the little javascript plugin is there...took some fancy CSS to get rid of them. Which, of course, I was able to do because of my mad talents....;P)
How would one get that kind of insurance?
About model releases -- I'm talkin to the teen on there on Friday, can probably ask her to sign one. The pics of the baby are probably going to leave, they weren't so great in the first place (I had that particular camera for three weeks before I gave up on it and returned it...I like my XT a billion times better :) )
Message edited by author 2008-07-15 18:16:51. |
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07/15/2008 07:18:03 PM · #23 |
| Oh, and another question -- have I chosen good images for my portfolio page? (website: //www.jlynnrphoto.com for those of you who haven't seen it) I'm definitely going to rearrange them, but are they good images in the first place? |
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07/16/2008 03:40:38 AM · #24 |
Some of them are. I especially like 'innocence' - it's so cute and direct that it makes an impression, 'curiosity' has really good lighting and is adorable, and 'red vine' is also okay. On the other hand I think the 'pensive' portrait just doesn't show the model from her best, neither does 'jen' - she doesn't connect with the camera and it looks more like a paparazi shot.
Also, it would be a great idea to make sub categories for your pictures - showing all styles and genres together doesn't complement them and when you get more pictures to show it will just make it messy.
(PS. Thanks for getting rid of the button *G*) |
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07/16/2008 07:57:16 AM · #25 |
If the model is under 18 you have to have the parents sign the release.
You need business liability insurance. Many companies sell it, but not many of the ones you've heard of. Some have special policies for photographers but I found general small business insurance to be a better deal - the prices are all about the same, it's what is covered that varies so you will want to get a copy of that and read it. Not exciting for sure, but necessary. //www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=739 is one source.
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