Can a monitor be "soft"? - DPChallenge Forums

05/12/2008 08:43:52 PM · #1

I often get comments that my entries look over-sharpened and I don't see it and Becky doesn't either, and there have been other times when I was expecting comments of "too soft" and didn't get them.
Is it possible that it's my monitor? That things appear softer on it than on others?
(or am I just going blinder than I thought?)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/12/2008 08:49:32 PM · #2

Yes, it's entirely possible, at least it is with a CRT. An LCD is another matter. What's just as likely as your monitor being soft is some folks having LCDs that have an internal "sharpness" setting that is too high. I know this was the case with a monitor I set up last year for my wife & kids. It was *way* too sharp by default.
If you are getting a lot of these comments, and you have a CRT, try to find an LCD monitor that you can view your stuff on and compare. Also, if you have specific image IDs that you want me to take a look at, post 'em and I'll do that.

dieselphoto

05/12/2008 09:09:24 PM · #3

I Agree with kirbic.

When I used to edit images on a CRT, LCD owners thought my images were "too" sharp, but they looked great on my CRT.
Now I have an LCD for all my edits that allows me to better control sharpness. Looks fairly good on other LCD's,
and nice and sharp on CRT's. One bonus I had was doing my edits at home on the LCD, posting them online, and then would
be able to view the images at work (all CRT's). Access to more than one monitor is always a bonus in terms of double
checking your edits. I was also able to see my images on monitors that must have been calibrated on the moon.
Interesting FX on your images.

05/12/2008 09:16:56 PM · #4

All CRTs become blurry with use. My old CRT became so blurry that I was unable to tell a - from a =. My new CRT (CRT FOREVER!) is much more clear and I can see blurriness where I never noticed it before.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/12/2008 09:41:46 PM · #5

Originally posted by togtog:

All CRTs become blurry with use...

Some do, that's for sure... but certainly not all. I'm typing this on an *old* 21" Dell CRT (Trinitron based) that's so sharp you could shave with it.

05/12/2008 09:46:24 PM · #6

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by togtog:
All CRTs become blurry with use...

Some do, that's for sure... but certainly not all. I'm typing this on an *old* 21" Dell CRT (Trinitron based) that's so sharp you could shave with it.

Lies! That is impossible! Actually that is a very nice monitor. :) Oh and it is based on hours of use, so monitors only used for part of the day will obviously last longer. I'm not saying that of your 21 inch, oooh my, that is a lot of inches...

05/12/2008 09:52:24 PM · #7

This is one that had two comments on it. All I can see on mine that might give that impression is the lighter haloing in his eye, but that was really there naturally.
The rest looks okay to me?

The other is in voting right now, but has 3 comments on oversharpening.

Another had two comments on it being nice and sharp and one that it was soft, so that made me wonder if monitors had more effect than just on brightness.

What should I be looking for that I might be missing, clue-wise?

My monitor is an Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751, 19" and I love it... or did...

05/12/2008 10:47:16 PM · #8

One last question; Is there any adjustment possible, or do I just have to get a new monitor?

05/13/2008 12:59:59 AM · #9

Just one bump in hopes of an answer to the last question, before I fall off the front page for good :)

rinac

Pentax K20D

Pentax SMC-F 50mm f/1.7

05/13/2008 01:07:48 AM · #10

Did you use any noise removal software on that one, or the others in voting at the mo? Looks to me like texture has been lost, which usually happens after noise removal... just a thought. It may then give the impression of being over sharpened because outlines look weird without texture.

eta: I'm on a CRT btw, and coincidentally 21 inches. CRT 4 EVA!

Message edited by author 2008-05-13 01:10:55.

05/13/2008 01:07:56 AM · #11

Sadly since softness is most likely caused by the picture tube then you are looking at a very hefty repair bill which may exceed the cost of a new monitor, which thankfully being a CRT is still cheaper than an LCD of quality.

05/13/2008 01:20:32 AM · #12

Originally posted by rinac:

Not on the eagle, no, but it WAS cropped a fair bit, so distance was probably the culprit in lost detail.

The one in voting, no. I'll ask again when it's done and visible, because I really would like to learn how to avoid this. I know haloing is one sign, but I don't see any (tho' again maybe that's the monitor) but I'm wondering what else I should look for?

And guys, just to start an argument... ;)
If I have to buy a new monitor, which should I get, CRT or LCD?

(taking cover now before stuff starts flying)

rinac

Pentax K20D

Pentax SMC-F 50mm f/1.7

05/13/2008 01:25:05 AM · #13

Originally posted by BeeCee:

And guys, just to start an argument... ;)
If I have to buy a new monitor, which should I get, CRT or LCD?

(taking cover now before stuff starts flying)

CRT

How anyone can stand looking at images on an LCD is beyond me.

05/13/2008 01:27:10 AM · #14

IMHO LCDs are more clear and bright, they use less power, take up less space. CRTs have better color reproduction and gamma response for the price, for gaming they also tend to have no ghosting, but that probably isn't an issue here.

LCDs are more delicate and can be knocked over, if you have kids the damage they can do to an LCD in under a second is horrifying. They also have problems with color reproduction and gamma shift which can harm photo and graphics work.

CRTs are huge, heavy, hot, and suck up power like there is no end. They are difficult to move and flicker which can cause eye-strain.

Edit:

Personally, I would vote CRT for anything related to graphics.

Message edited by author 2008-05-13 01:29:02.

05/13/2008 01:30:11 AM · #15

I would love an LCD, simply for the space on my cramped little desk, but I've heard they aren't as good as CRT's for editing. And you're right, gaming isn't a big consideration for me :)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/13/2008 11:19:01 PM · #16

Originally posted by BeeCee:

I would love an LCD, simply for the space on my cramped little desk, but I've heard they aren't as good as CRT's for editing. And you're right, gaming isn't a big consideration for me :)

Most of them are not, and you still pay a *lot* for ones that are really good for editing and have the resolution of a decent CRT. My 21" Dell CRT, for instance, runs at 1792x1344. I'd have to step down slightly in the vertical pixel count even if I went with a 24" LCD. A 24" LCD appropriate for editing would set me back up to $800 USD. You can bet I'll be running the CRT until it dies.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM

05/19/2008 12:29:05 AM · #17

Okay, this is the shot;

So what says "oversharp"?
(It really WAS that colour, much more bronze and more intense than others I've seen)
I'd really like to learn what to look for, and if it IS my monitor I'll know how to adjust for it :)

Sugarpie

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

05/19/2008 12:37:41 AM · #18

Sharp as in the feathers look like sticks and not feathers. Its a gorgeous picture no doubt I love the colors!

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

05/19/2008 01:25:54 AM · #19

Thanks.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

05/19/2008 02:27:00 AM · #20

Glad you brought this up. Seems to be quite a difference between crt and lcd. On my lcd the peacock shot, which is fabulous, does look oversharpened, and when I read your notes on the amount of sharpening I was amazed at the size of your numbers (radius and percentage), because when I edit, a little sharpening goes a long long way. BUT I have always doubted the "truth" of my lcd monitor; it could be all the oversharpened comments came from lcd monitor users.

05/19/2008 02:42:55 AM · #21

looks oversharpened on my Dell CRT, I will try it out on the living room PC, the monitor on that is failing and is too blurry, I will see how it looks there when I get a chance.