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04/17/2008 04:35:31 AM · #1 |
(The photo is at the bottom-most part of this post)
Hi guys, just wondering about this because it went WAAY off what I expected it to get... Although after some pondering, I'm ready to concede where it went wrong.
Although I'm not so sure that it really deserved a 275/375 ranking with a 4.8918 average...
I entered this in the recently concluded "Centered Composition III" challenge.
Here were the comments:
Good colors.
-- I'd say the colors on my photo are pretty good, yeah.
not center enough..sorry
-- Not so sure about this. I placed the sun right smack centered at the crosshair.
What's the green dot in the center of the picture?? It's distracting.
-- Totally agree. Funny thing is that I seriously did not notice that until I read this comment!
Very nice idea- but cutting a landscape in half is kind of a sin on photography unless you have the subject to pull it off. The glare spot is distracting as well. It is very hard to photograph the sun head on like that. I think is was a worthy attempt though.
-- Very useful comment here. I did't know that cutting a landscape in half is kind of a sin on photography until I read this.
It's a nice picture but I do not like the tilted horizon
-- Is it really tilted? =( I made sure to straighten it and used the marks on my Pentax K100D viewfinder to make sure it was straight...
A nicely exposed very boring sunrise.
-- Touche. A bit harsh, but I get the point of this comment =)
Nice highlights on the waves.
-- Yeah, I thought so too.
Centred - yes and a nice reflection on the water but it's not enough for me.
-- A more tame version of the "A nicely exposed very boring sunrise" comment. Hehe.
So that's it. What do you guys think?
Did this photo deserve a sub-5 average?
Is it because of the challenge, which is why the score is below 5?
Or is it really a sub-5 photo on its own?
TIA!
Message edited by ClubJuggle - Please do not post large images directly to the forums. |
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04/17/2008 04:43:51 AM · #2 |
I wouldn't have given it below a five. I didn't vote that challenge but to answer your thoughts.....
The image is level it is the mountains in the background giving the illusion of tilted perspective.
Yeah the glare is distracting....
But hey take it from me I know all about not seeing something annoying until after a commenter points it out. Take my intimacy shot for example..... Went shooting, came back browsed through my shots... oooo this one has her foot up in the air, I really like it! So I went with that shot only to get 6 comments about my hand in my pocket.....
I had to use a remote to take the shot and couldn't get my hand out of my pocket fast enough.... lol oh well
It just happens 'round these parts....
Message edited by author 2008-04-17 04:45:30. |
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04/17/2008 04:53:32 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Patrick_R:
The image is level it is the mountains in the background giving the illusion of tilted perspective. |
Yeah, I thought so too...
Originally posted by Patrick_R:
But hey take it from me I know all about not seeing something annoying until after a commenter points it out. Take my intimacy shot for example..... Went shooting, came back browsed through my shots... oooo this one has her foot up in the air, I really like it! So I went with that shot only to get 6 comments about my hand in my pocket.....
I had to use a remote to take the shot and couldn't get my hand out of my pocket fast enough.... lol oh well
It just happens 'round these parts.... |
Hehe yeah, I agree about the hand. But hey, look at the blue ribbon winner in that challenge, it looks quite similar to your photo and the hand is also just placed at the side. Not an overly big deal, just something to improve on. At least now we know. =)
Thanks! |
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04/17/2008 04:58:23 AM · #4 |
| Gosh I know i laughed when I saw that image.... at least I had one hand on her! He looked way less intimate.... lol! image quality though is much better.... sigh i so want that f/2.8L 70-200 |
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04/17/2008 05:11:59 AM · #5 |
Dunno if it deserves a sub par 5.00 score or not but the horizon is sloping to the left.
It's less than 1 degree but the mountain line accentuates it.
bazz |
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04/17/2008 05:43:02 AM · #6 |
| Not the best choice for that particular challenge and sunsets get tiring to many people who look at photos of them ad nauseum and most importantly-- it is too realistic. You should have HDR'd the crap out of it or something to make it look more "other-worldly". Woulda pulled an easy 5 from me though. A 6 if it had a clever title. :) |
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04/17/2008 05:54:50 AM · #7 |
| Clever titles are worth at least 2 points in the ratings. |
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04/17/2008 06:09:02 AM · #8 |
The score does seem low but the only thing you have going here is good technicals. There's no life or energy flowing within this image. Everything is just static. Change that and you would have had a much higher score.
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04/17/2008 06:13:29 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Woulda pulled an easy 5 from me though. A 6 if it had a clever title. :) |
Originally posted by dsmil:
Clever titles are worth at least 2 points in the ratings. |
Actually, that's another thing that I've been wondering: How much does the title affect how you rate an image?
But that's for a different thread altogether ^_^
@yanko: Thanks a lot for that. I think that's a great point. |
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04/17/2008 06:15:41 AM · #10 |
A bit ho-hummish IMO. Very common subject shot by gazillions of people with any kind of camera. That being said, the exposure is good. Many people would not have metered it correctly and the sun would have thrown it off to make it underexposed.
Shame on you for not seeing the sun flare until after receiving a comment on it. :)
The horizon is tilted to the left. That should have been corrected in post-processing.
Attention to details makes a huge difference in a sub-par score vs an above average one. 4.8 is about right IMO on this one. |
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04/17/2008 06:44:01 AM · #11 |
Very ordinary shot of a very common scene. The fact it is centered, sun and horizon, makes this even more ordinary. I know the challenge called for centering subjects but I'm just commenting on the pic as a stand alone image, not a challenge entry. Horizon is tilted and the treeline doesn't help. I'm not going to mention that glare spot, oops.
My vote 4 or 5. |
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04/17/2008 07:20:49 AM · #12 |
What is it with people being so picky with slighly tilted horizons
Sometime it adds to the picture
don't be so quick to dismiss it |
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04/17/2008 07:25:35 AM · #13 |
I don't think that it can be determined whether or not this image is tilted. The apparent horizon is tilted, as many have pointed out. But they are referring to the trees which are higher on the right.
I take a lot of shots across the water and the ones that have land with rolling heights are the hardest to level (or make appear level). The difficulty here (that nobody has mentioned yet) is that we don't know if the land at the far left is closer, further, or the same distance as the land on the right. The waterline is definitely lower on the left than on the right so the camera could only have been level if the land on the left was closer and the shoreline stretched away from the shooter as viewed from left to right. Otherwise, the camera was not level when the shot was taken unless it was cropped this way.
I have decided that for my images what is more important than a truly level horizon is how it appears to the viewer. I often consider the optical illusion of a tilted horizon due to the shoreline not being perpendicular to my lens and compromise the true level with what appears to be true and decide to level the shot somewhere in between. |
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04/17/2008 07:26:13 AM · #14 |
Opinions here are subjective.
Never shoot for the challenge, shoot for yourself.
Even if the photo is a nice image, nice doesn't make it here. You need WOW added.
It is a nice image, and while it competed among other sunsets....it is just another sunset.
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04/17/2008 07:30:22 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by yakatme:
I don't think that it can be determined whether or not this image is tilted. The apparent horizon is tilted, as many have pointed out. But they are referring to the trees which are higher on the right.
I take a lot of shots across the water and the ones that have land with rolling heights are the hardest to level (or make appear level). The difficulty here (that nobody has mentioned yet) is that we don't know if the land at the far left is closer, further, or the same distance as the land on the right. The waterline is definitely lower on the left than on the right so the camera could only have been level if the land on the left was closer and the shoreline stretched away from the shooter as viewed from left to right. Otherwise, the camera was not level when the shot was taken unless it was cropped this way.
I have decided that for my images what is more important than a truly level horizon is how it appears to the viewer. I often consider the optical illusion of a tilted horizon due to the shoreline not being perpendicular to my lens and compromise the true level with what appears to be true and decide to level the shot somewhere in between. |
That's because you know this. Most will not and judge the image less favourably because of it. I understand your point though.
And i'm sure most photographers here were not persuaded by the tree line. The horizon appears slanted and that is not a good visual aspect of a sunset over a horizon. This shot begs for a straight horizon because of the straight on point of view.
Scroll the image up until it meets the top of your browser, you'll see that the water line is really slanted. |
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04/17/2008 07:31:11 AM · #16 |
nevermind
Message edited by author 2008-04-17 07:32:14. |
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04/17/2008 07:31:57 AM · #17 |
To me the composition is uninspired. The photo is virtually cut in half with very little (none) interest in the bottom half of the pic. How does the water add to the pic? I would recommend that you try not to have 2 halves in a shot like this- thirds add more interest. In other words, 1/3 water, 2/3 interesting sky. I think that this would have improved your score.
-jrjr |
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04/17/2008 07:38:50 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by quiapz:
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I may say people think nothing going on here, but if it is the case, in my photo tons of going on and still got similar vote.
It must be something with the sun itself... I think it's the global warming, no one cares about it (sun) anymore LOL
Message edited by author 2008-04-17 07:39:58. |
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04/17/2008 07:39:13 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Scroll the image up until it meets the top of your browser, you'll see that the water line is really slanted. |
I did. That's how I determined that it is slanted and that's a big part of my point. But is it slanted because one end of the shoreline is closer than the other, or because the camera was tilted? I've taken many shots that appeared tilted because the land on one side of the image was closer than the other. The problem is that unless you were there you wouldn't know it and the important result is that the viewer's perception is that the horizon is tilted. |
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04/17/2008 07:54:36 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Very ordinary shot of a very common scene. The fact it is centered, sun and horizon, makes this even more ordinary. I know the challenge called for centering subjects but I'm just commenting on the pic as a stand alone image, not a challenge entry. |
This is pretty fundamental to the score IMO. If the CHALLENGE is "Centered", then you're not going to get a decent score with an image that doesn't naturally WANT to be centered, see? If we look at the image and say, "Boy, if he'd cropped out half the sky and half the space to the right of the sun, this would be a LOT better...", then that's not a very good challenge entry, is it? What we SHOULD be looking for is centered images that sing, that make us feel "It's RIGHT that this be centered, I wouldn't change a thing."
And that's not easy to do. It was a good challenge, I hard one to do well at...
R.
That said, here's the exact same image quickly tweaked in PS with shadow/highlight, curves, and hue/sat adjustments:
Message edited by author 2008-04-17 08:02:27. |
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04/17/2008 07:55:56 AM · #21 |
I'm new around these parts, so take this with a grain of salt...
I suspect that are a few things that happen with voting. First of all, there are 100-300 pictures to go through on any given challenge. That being said, there are several subjects that need to have a big time "WOW" factor to really even get noticed. Sunsets, flowers, insects, to name just a few. Because they can fit in nearly any challenge, they arein nearly every challenge. I used to be blown away by every bug macro, and after a couple of months, it's just another bug unless it's very well done and stands out from the pack. It's not completely fair, but it's human nature.
While I think that your photo is nice, there isn't a "wow" factor. Add to that some minor details like the lens flare and slightly tilted waterline, and you wind up with a score lower than you expected.
Before I went to school for music recording, I knew that I liked or disliked how something sounded, but not why. Now I can say that I don't like the layering on a vocal or the compression on a drum. Photography is exactly the same, and you're in very educated company here.
Bottom line. Take all the comments in, but know that you'll agree with some and disagree with others. But if several people make the same comment, it might be something to take into consideration next time.
Take it from me! I'm inching my way towards a 6.0 finish myself! lol |
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04/17/2008 07:58:38 AM · #22 |
Here's my thoughts on the image
First impression:
A pretty scene with possibilities. The fact that it is a basic sunset will not give you much by way of score at DPC. Viewers/ voters are expecting to be wowed by the quality of the scene as well as the quality and imagination of the image. I have personally entered many 'nice' shots in challenges that get sorely beaten in voting. The image you have is a nice scene but one that does not scream at me - "WOW this is awesome"!
Positives:
The sky and the clouds have the potential to really take this shot up a notch or two. A bit of Shadow/highlight adjustments in PS could really define the sky more and provide more interest to the shot. You could emphasize the textures of the sky while maintaining the nice water reflections.
It is a serene and inviting location - I would love to be there to witness the sunset.
Issues that others have mentioned:
1. The unfortunate lens reflection (green spot) is extremely distracting in this image. The green dot looks like a mistake not a benefit to the photo - and the DPC voters (including me) dropped their score because of it. If this was an advanced editing challenge, you could have removed it in post processing. But alas, so here we are! Was your lens covered with a UV or other filter? The more glass you have in front of the sensor, the more chance for these unfortunate lens artifacts.
2. The subject (the Sun) is not well defined but merely a 'blob of light' as opposed to a clear sharp shape. Many voters including me were likely saying - yes it is centered, but what is drawing me into the shot?
3. The tilted horizon does add a bit of unbalance to the image. DPCers are picky and if the horizon is planned to be flat, it should be flat.
4. The main subject of the shot does not appear to be centered completely. With the horizon below center, the sky appears to dominate and gives the impression of not being centered.
Putting together the green lens artifact, the unlevel horizon and the blob of light as the subject, and the impression of not being centered, voters were not going to reward the image with a high score (and remember around here anything over a 5 is considered a high score!). I personally gave it a 4 because I saw more issues than positives.
Post Comment:  Bear_Music has done a nice job in his earlier post to show what a bit of post process tweaking might be able to do
Message edited by author 2008-04-17 08:11:27. |
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04/17/2008 08:21:10 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
What is it with people being so picky with slighly tilted horizons
Sometime it adds to the picture
don't be so quick to dismiss it |
The problem is there is a rule that says any lake bank has to be straight across the scene. The water doesn't appear to me to be tilted. I wasn't there but I'm guessing the bank isn't straight across, so why should the photo "correct" it?
With that said, if your entering a shot in DPC it had better be straight across.
On another note, I like the green spot but I think more sun spots would be even better. The cheap lenses don't have coatings that the better ones do. Try using the cheapest lens you have to shoot directly into the sun. |
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04/17/2008 08:22:06 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by yakatme:
Originally posted by Jac:
Scroll the image up until it meets the top of your browser, you'll see that the water line is really slanted. |
I did. That's how I determined that it is slanted and that's a big part of my point. But is it slanted because one end of the shoreline is closer than the other, or because the camera was tilted? I've taken many shots that appeared tilted because the land on one side of the image was closer than the other. The problem is that unless you were there you wouldn't know it and the important result is that the viewer's perception is that the horizon is tilted. |
Of course, perception is everythingwhen you are trying to distill a three dimentional image into two dimentions, otherwise we wouldn't care about incidental obstructions like a tree branch coming out of someone's head since the viewer should eventually use reason to understand that the tree is in the background. This photo's aparent slant feels stronger to me because the tree line is slanting left, the waves are slanting left, the shore line seems lightly left and those prominent clouds near the left horizon even slant left. Given what is above and below, I don't think this shot would feel level even if it were.
I probably would have given this a 5 considering all of the good aspects pointed out above, but the slanted feeling in combination with an ordinary subject would not inspire me to go any higher. |
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04/17/2008 08:29:27 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Jac:
Very ordinary shot of a very common scene. The fact it is centered, sun and horizon, makes this even more ordinary. I know the challenge called for centering subjects but I'm just commenting on the pic as a stand alone image, not a challenge entry. |
This is pretty fundamental to the score IMO. If the CHALLENGE is "Centered", then you're not going to get a decent score with an image that doesn't naturally WANT to be centered, see? If we look at the image and say, "Boy, if he'd cropped out half the sky and half the space to the right of the sun, this would be a LOT better...", then that's not a very good challenge entry, is it? What we SHOULD be looking for is centered images that sing, that make us feel "It's RIGHT that this be centered, I wouldn't change a thing."
And that's not easy to do. It was a good challenge, I hard one to do well at...
R.
That said, here's the exact same image quickly tweaked in PS with shadow/highlight, curves, and hue/sat adjustments:
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WOW! with the added detail my eyes are not as drawn to the left feel of this shot. Still not so inspiring, but might have risen the score average above 5. |
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