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03/24/2008 10:17:28 AM · #1 |
Ok, so I was perusing the 'net & learning of other photo sites / forums, and came across 2 in particular that have me BAFFLED. They are outrageously expensive, and there is NO free trial period or way to actually read what is on the forums before joining. So I thought "Hmmm, maybe the trial period is inexpensive & just there to keep 'nosy' people out?"
Nope - $25 for a 2 or 3 day trial!!! If that weren't bad enough, their yearly costs are unbelievable:
ProPhotogs - $150 / yr
Pro4um - $250 / yr
Does anyone have ANY information on these sites? I can somewhat understand if they are truly a source of wisdom and inspiration, but I'm tempted to send them some SPAM, just for being so darned arrogant! LOL
Seriously?
Message edited by author 2008-03-24 10:27:24.
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03/24/2008 10:31:00 AM · #2 |
I was able to register for Pro4um for free, but there are areas that you need to be a paying member to access.
Most of the forum threads that I looked at had a message "There are no posts in this forum." or "There have been no posts in the past 30 days"
Seems like a pretty dead place. |
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03/24/2008 10:36:52 AM · #3 |
| The other place is about the same |
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03/24/2008 10:37:17 AM · #4 |
| I wouldn't bother with either one. |
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03/24/2008 10:41:10 AM · #5 |
ROFLPIMP - Yer silly! (It's because they won't SHOW you any of the threads until you give up da money) but thanks for a good laugh!
Anyone else? :)
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03/24/2008 10:50:58 AM · #6 |
| My suspicion is that they are sort of like sham businesses. The owner sets up a site for their photog friends, but needs/wants a tax deduction, so, they set it up like a pay site, but make it really expensive to keep everyone out. That way they can have a place to hangout online with their friends and still deduct expenses and losses. They allow "free" memberships, since people will sign up out of curiosity, so that they can tell advertisers they have a larger membership and generate ad revenue. |
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03/24/2008 11:42:33 AM · #7 |
update - I responded to their automated signup messages, and thought some of you might get a good laugh out of it (cuz apparently, this woman didn't!)
MY MESSAGE TO THEM:
"$25 **JUST** to find out if your site is worthwhile???
I thought PORN site trial offers were a rip-off! :D Even DWF (Digital Wedding Forum) gives people a short trial period, and they are a HUGE asset to their members! Unless you can do better than that, forget it. Please provide a trial period, or remove my information from your system. ((Either way, please also notify me of your decision via email?)) Thanks!"
THEIR RESPONSE:
"Hi Billy,
Thanks for your email.
We're not DWF, we're ProPhotogs.
This is the way we do it, we do not do it like DWF.
So you can either do the trial membership or not, it's your choice.
Thank you!!!"
Amazing how some people will act online, huh? ;)
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03/24/2008 11:46:58 AM · #8 |
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03/24/2008 11:50:34 AM · #9 |
| Spaz's scenario is one possible. Another is that they are legit businesses, and the owners really think that pros will pay that kind of fee, whereas amateurs are unlikely to, thus providing a barrier to casual users. IMO, this model does not work. |
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03/24/2008 11:53:26 AM · #10 |
I agree kirbic. I absolutely detest sites that don't let me see what is going on. It may be the best site in the world, but I don't want to shell out big bucks (or even little ones) if it doesn't "fit." And how am I going to know if it "fits" if I don't try it first.
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03/24/2008 12:33:31 PM · #11 |
| FWIW, I signed (not paying) up on both sites as 'Elmer Gantry'... |
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03/24/2008 04:02:57 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
update - I responded to their automated signup messages, and thought some of you might get a good laugh out of it (cuz apparently, this woman didn't!)
MY MESSAGE TO THEM:
"$25 **JUST** to find out if your site is worthwhile???
I thought PORN site trial offers were a rip-off! :D Even DWF (Digital Wedding Forum) gives people a short trial period, and they are a HUGE asset to their members! Unless you can do better than that, forget it. Please provide a trial period, or remove my information from your system. ((Either way, please also notify me of your decision via email?)) Thanks!"
THEIR RESPONSE:
"Hi Billy,
Thanks for your email.
We're not DWF, we're ProPhotogs.
This is the way we do it, we do not do it like DWF.
So you can either do the trial membership or not, it's your choice.
Thank you!!!"
Amazing how some people will act online, huh? ;) |
Hate to say this but... if I had a professional forum and I received an email like the one you sent, I would definitely *not* be looking to sign you up. The pros don't need that kind of "attitude" in the forums.
No offense, but I think you totally approached them the wrong way. You're going to have to act like a professional if you want to be accepted as a professional.
(the website may still be a sham, all I'm saying is, if it's not, if it's really a pro website for pros, I would tend to agree that throwing a bone to someone with the attitude you displayed would not be in their best interest)
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03/24/2008 04:37:54 PM · #13 |
Actually David, I've been wondering how long it would be 'til someone brought this up.
Not too sure I to be involved with such self-important, greedy individuals, so I really didn't care what they thought of me. While I may know some of the participants (from other websites), my comment was directed towards the 'elitist' attitude of the ownership - period.
Their websites DO mention keeping non-pros out, and I find that perfectly acceptable. However, I have no intention of laying out $25 just to see << IF >> they warrant further investment.
Now... if anyone here is already a member (or has heard good OR bad) on these websites, I would be interested in hearing about them.
Thx
(PS - David... your posting here was well written, polite, and professional - thank you for your input & advice. You didn't have to take the time to share with me, and I do appreciate your efforts.)
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03/24/2008 06:46:52 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
However, I have no intention of laying out $25 just to see << IF >> they warrant further investment. |
On that front ... I totally agree. :-)
I tend to "vote with my dollars" for things that I value and want to see continue and I would find it very hard to vote for something without knowing anything at all up front.
I also concur that, lacking the ability to "look inside the forums" myself, I would really like to find someone else who could vouch for them before throwing money their way. It's in your best interest to avoid internet scams and it seems they come in ever increasing variety of shapes and sizes.
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04/05/2008 06:57:41 PM · #15 |
Clearly you have never been on a professional forum if you are crying over the price.
Check out portranet.net last time I looked it was 1500.00 or more to join for the year.
Was I a member there- YES! Did I learn alot - YES
It kept out all the wanna be's and all the moms with a camera. Those that were SERIOUS about being there. I did a full year, learned as much as I could and then left. Not because it was bad. I did the full course. Those that want to say can. I chose to not SHOOT just like Ron Kramer. I have my own style and loved what I learned. I got personal training form him thru his online forum/class.
I am also member of Pro4um and ProPhotogs.
Both worth its weight in gold and honestly I feel their prices are NOT enough. You get so many ideas, learn lighting, styles, marketing. The works.
They took try to keep out the less serious folks.
For the person saying they are trying to keep it an elite place, give me a break!!! They want it for a tax write off!! GAWD YOU KILL ME!
I read this thread and laughed all the way thru it.
Its funny, human nature is so curious. And will make all these wild, fabricated stories on why something is. I do appreciate the person asking if anyone was on these forums to give them their 2 cents. At least that is decent of you. For the rest of yall, your stories/assumptions kill me. Thanks for the laugh this weekend!!!
So for those that DO NOT KNOW- don't assume!! That is what is wrong with this world today. Yes opinions are nice. Everyone has one.. but grow up!!
And no- don't go on saying "well if everyone is like you, then I am not going to join now" That is your own business/problem.
I personally love both forums, I even loved my year on Portranet. But I outgrew portranet. It was not a forum but a class online learning from Ron Kramer.
I see people dropping 300-1000.00 for a workshop. They dont cry about it. Yet a full year of learning and you cry bout it. To each your own!!
So- they charge that much to keep the pros in and the MWAC's out. So - those that are interested in learning and get their money's worth.. I hope you enjoy it as much as me and my spouse do! I have been with both forums for over 2 years. Almost 3.
I seriously doubt anyone that leaves there and is HONEST with themselves can say they didn't get 1 thing out of it worth the price of the years membership. I can't think of a better way to spend my money!
Both forums produce ALOT OF POSTS.
ProPhotogs for example - yes they do have OFF TOPIC posts. Who doesnt. BUT you get a choice to click on 2 buttons when you log in.
TODAYS POSTS WITH OT POST (off topic)
Or NEW POSTS (no off topic) will pull up if you are one of those that don't want to read it.
Best of both worlds. Its like a family in both of them. Everyone cares for everyone and willing to lend a hand to make everyone a successful business. People freely share in there. Big names in both of those forums as well. They share often and critique as well in both forums.
If you have on your big girl panties and can take some good critiquing on your work if you ask for it or post in the critique forum.. again.. great education is not free.
But I also do not feel the owner of ProPhotogs replied to you harshly. There are so many numbnuts out there, that will get all bossy about the price, (clearly from this thread alone proves it) I am sure they are sick and tired of the whiners. It gets old I am sure. (And no I am no the owner of either forum, far from) I bet your email to THEM was real nice too? (doubt it was)
And to SEE INSIDE- trust me.. I am GLAD they dont allow just anyone to see inside. I personally do not want to invest my time in helping someone that is just "stopping by" Those that paid to get in, and really want to contribute, you will find will get alot out of both forums. But if you are a lurker then just ask ask ask. You will find you get nothing in return. This is not to scare of newbies tho.. because, you can still contribute with critiques or just being active and replying your opinions and thoughts. People notice! And people will then in return genuinely care to help!
25.00 to see if it is worth it, is WORTH IT. Don't take my word.. see for yourself. |
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04/05/2008 07:00:06 PM · #16 |
| (spelling errors.. my bad) Forgot I can edit my posts on this forum |
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04/05/2008 07:15:47 PM · #17 |
Oh my,  sleeplessinorlando makes SO much sense. Interesting that he/she just signed up today. What a wunnerful woil.
Edit: and didn't pay to become a member.
Message edited by author 2008-04-05 19:16:52. |
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04/05/2008 07:16:33 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by sleeplessinorlando:
Clearly you have never been on a professional forum if you are crying over the price.
Check out portranet.net last time I looked it was 1500.00 or more to join for the year.
Was I a member there- YES! Did I learn alot - YES
It kept out all the wanna be's and all the moms with a camera. Those that were SERIOUS about being there. I did a full year, learned as much as I could and then left. Not because it was bad. I did the full course. Those that want to say can. I chose to not SHOOT just like Ron Kramer. I have my own style and loved what I learned. I got personal training form him thru his online forum/class.
I am also member of Pro4um and ProPhotogs.
Both worth its weight in gold and honestly I feel their prices are NOT enough. You get so many ideas, learn lighting, styles, marketing. The works.
They took try to keep out the less serious folks.
For the person saying they are trying to keep it an elite place, give me a break!!! They want it for a tax write off!! GAWD YOU KILL ME!
I read this thread and laughed all the way thru it.
Its funny, human nature is so curious. And will make all these wild, fabricated stories on why something is. I do appreciate the person asking if anyone was on these forums to give them their 2 cents. At least that is decent of you. For the rest of yall, your stories/assumptions kill me. Thanks for the laugh this weekend!!!
So for those that DO NOT KNOW- don't assume!! That is what is wrong with this world today. Yes opinions are nice. Everyone has one.. but grow up!!
And no- don't go on saying "well if everyone is like you, then I am not going to join now" That is your own business/problem.
I personally love both forums, I even loved my year on Portranet. But I outgrew portranet. It was not a forum but a class online learning from Ron Kramer.
I see people dropping 300-1000.00 for a workshop. They dont cry about it. Yet a full year of learning and you cry bout it. To each your own!!
So- they charge that much to keep the pros in and the MWAC's out. So - those that are interested in learning and get their money's worth.. I hope you enjoy it as much as me and my spouse do! I have been with both forums for over 2 years. Almost 3.
I seriously doubt anyone that leaves there and is HONEST with themselves can say they didn't get 1 thing out of it worth the price of the years membership. I can't think of a better way to spend my money!
Both forums produce ALOT OF POSTS.
ProPhotogs for example - yes they do have OFF TOPIC posts. Who doesnt. BUT you get a choice to click on 2 buttons when you log in.
TODAYS POSTS WITH OT POST (off topic)
Or NEW POSTS (no off topic) will pull up if you are one of those that don't want to read it.
Best of both worlds. Its like a family in both of them. Everyone cares for everyone and willing to lend a hand to make everyone a successful business. People freely share in there. Big names in both of those forums as well. They share often and critique as well in both forums.
If you have on your big girl panties and can take some good critiquing on your work if you ask for it or post in the critique forum.. again.. great education is not free.
But I also do not feel the owner of ProPhotogs replied to you harshly. There are so many numbnuts out there, that will get all bossy about the price, (clearly from this thread alone proves it) I am sure they are sick and tired of the whiners. It gets old I am sure. (And no I am no the owner of either forum, far from) I bet your email to THEM was real nice too? (doubt it was)
And to SEE INSIDE- trust me.. I am GLAD they dont allow just anyone to see inside. I personally do not want to invest my time in helping someone that is just "stopping by" Those that paid to get in, and really want to contribute, you will find will get alot out of both forums. But if you are a lurker then just ask ask ask. You will find you get nothing in return. This is not to scare of newbies tho.. because, you can still contribute with critiques or just being active and replying your opinions and thoughts. People notice! And people will then in return genuinely care to help!
25.00 to see if it is worth it, is WORTH IT. Don't take my word.. see for yourself. |
Wow! I thought I was an ass. You're a bigger ass! |
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04/05/2008 07:18:20 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by sleeplessinorlando:
Clearly you have never been on a professional forum if you are crying over the price.
[...snipped for brevity...]
25.00 to see if it is worth it, is WORTH IT. Don't take my word.. see for yourself. |
Registered today JUST to spill all that bile? Wow. |
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04/05/2008 07:23:52 PM · #20 |
Billy, you'll get far more from OurPPA.com and its free when you join PPA; which by the way comes with some nify benifits, group pricing deals, conventions, teaching tours, and much more. :)
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04/05/2008 07:33:22 PM · #21 |
| sleeplessinorlando is telling US to grow up? Please! Someone is bitter because they dropped $1500 on a forum website!!!! and OBVIOUSLY is a fake because they signed up just to participate in this thread!! Haha |
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04/05/2008 07:35:50 PM · #22 |
| I would bet that we never hear from sleeplessinorlando after this... Maybe they should take some of their own advice and "grow up". LOL |
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04/05/2008 07:57:29 PM · #23 |
| I think that it would be great to see sleeplessinorlando compete in a couple of challenges and show us what he learned! |
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04/05/2008 08:50:36 PM · #24 |
joined today or not.. found the thread in google. And saw you guys making a bunch of BS about stuff you know nothing about. Figured I'd help... bwwahahah
yall are soo much fun to ruffle your feathers!!!
Glad yall got a rise out of it!! And join another forum? I wasn't asking yall for advice to join this one or not. But thanks!
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04/05/2008 08:55:08 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by sleeplessinorlando:
joined today or not.. found the thread in google. And saw you guys making a bunch of BS about stuff you know nothing about. Figured I'd help... bwwahahah
yall are soo much fun to ruffle your feathers!!!
Glad yall got a rise out of it!! And join another forum? I wasn't asking yall for advice to join this one or not. But thanks! |
I'm not out $1500 for a one year membership, my feathers aren't ruffled, and your not willing to enter one of the challenges to show us what you've learned from your expenses experiences? According to your profile you don't even own a camera! :-)
Message edited by author 2008-04-05 20:56:12. |
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