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03/14/2008 01:08:10 AM · #1 |
I'm not in the "business" of photography.. I don't have a business license, but I do photo shoots for friends at no cost.. I have several friends that want me to do their kids' senior portraits for this upcoming year, just as I did this last year.. To my surprise, I get this e-mail from a specific photographer here in town stating that they and another photographer have met with the year book advisors from the 3 local high schools and they are now REQUIRING certain criteria to be met from ANY photographer who wishes to take senior portraits.. Normally, not a big deal.. But, when only 2 local photographers are deciding these "requirements" along with the year book advisors, I kinda raise my eyebrows and wonder what's in it for them and why are they exclusively having these meetings to make these decisions.. So, I read the requirements.. Here they are:
1. Have a current business license from their City or County Home Use Permit.
2. The 3 yearbook portrait options listed on the poster.
3. Deliver to the yearbook an image 2.5 X 3.5 @300 DPI at a Date to be decided later. (Dates will be decided on before the mailing goes out) Name of the Senior would be used for filing purposes. (see below)
4. Pay the $400. That defrays the cost of mailing and gives the yearbook a small amount of money to work with.
5. Receive a quarter page ad in the 3 yearbooks.
6. Be available to help during school hours with any other photography needed during the year by the yearbook advisors. Clubs, Teams etc.
7. Abide by the dress code. We went over the dress code adding a couple things to it. Also adding a sentence that says to the effect “The school reserves the right to edit or refuse”. Clint will look up the correct wording.
Now requirments 4 & 6 are the ones I have a serious problem with.. How can they force any photographer to pay them any amount of money for simply providing them with an image... I can understand they are trying to make up for that by giving an add in all 3 yearbooks and for those of you who do this for a business, that may or may not be a good trade off.. I have no idea.. But, why should I pay them anything !!! They can keep their add.. Save their space.. How about, actually sell that space to a business that is chosing to buy it??? Novel idea.. As I recall, when I was editor of the yearbook my senior year, we specifically sold space to local business's as they chose to buy that space..
Then, number 6.. How the heck can I agree to be "available" for them to do shoots for their clubs, games, dances & what not, when this isn't what I do for a living?? That's such a loose statment, I'm not sure how any person in business could agree to it.. It's so open ended, what if it's something that you cannot fulfill...Are they going to refund you the $400 you already paid and then deny the senior portraits you've done??
I'm bummed.. The notice does also say that the photog's who do agree to these terms will take the senior portrait for free..Meaning, you don't have to use them to buy a package or as your actual senior portrait photographer. But, for those who have to chose that option, they only get one pose, one outfit and basically one shot to chose from.. So, if it turns out like crap, then you're stuck with it.. Which hardly seems fair.. The gals I know are single moms, they can't afford the huge prices our local photog's charge and they know they can get the images done for free through me and the prints done at cost.. They're going to be really upset to find out, it's not going to be possible..
Any suggestions.. I just don't feel it's fair to force people to use the photog's the school district is in bed with.. I understand they need a certain level of professionalism and they have certain requirements for the images to be acceptable, but this to me is going to far.. I'd like to respond, but not sure how to word it.. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.. Or, if this is business as usual, then that's fine.. I just need to know..
Thanks everyone !!
Kristin
PS.. Also, not sure why the yearbook needs money to "work with".. They charge $75 for each yearbook and the seniors are responsible for raising money starting their freshman year to offset these costs.. $400 seems a big price to pay as a photog to help offset any costs for any business other then the one I earn money from.
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03/14/2008 01:36:28 AM · #2 |
Sadly, a lot of schools are this way now.
When I graduated in 2005, we had to have our senior pictures taken by a certain photo studio for the yearbook. This means, every single shot that showed up in the yearbook was taken by the same studio. You could still get the rest of your pictures taken by another photographer, but the ones that appeared in the yearbook were all from the same studio. The yearbook shot was free for the seniors/parents.
The studio actually paid the school to sign this contract, which also meant they had a full page ad in all of the programs for every event the school put on and the studio would also supply all of the sports photos for the yearbook as well.
What does the studio get out of this? A whole lot of money. These kids had to go to that specific studio to get their yearbook photo taken, so instead of going to another studio, the parents and kids would just want to get it over with and had everything taken since they were already there. 90% of the senior class did the same thing.
So, you figure if the average shoot brought in $500 multiplied by the 150 kids that went, that studio just brought in $75,000. This wasn't the only school that this photographer had contracted out either.
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03/14/2008 01:42:12 AM · #3 |
| If the photogs who set this up are "shooting for free" for the picture that goes in the yearbook, have the students you shoot go there for the "official" shot, then shoot their personal shots as you normally would. Unfortunately, that means the shots they like won't be in the yearbook but at least they'll have them for themselves and their families and friends. |
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03/14/2008 03:01:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
6. Be available to help during school hours with any other photography needed during the year by the yearbook advisors. Clubs, Teams etc.
Then, number 6.. How the heck can I agree to be "available" for them to do shoots for their clubs, games, dances & what not, when this isn't what I do for a living?? That's such a loose statment, I'm not sure how any person in business could agree to it.. It's so open ended, what if it's something that you cannot fulfill...Are they going to refund you the $400 you already paid and then deny the senior portraits you've done?? |
"Be available" is different than "Be there for free". |
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03/14/2008 03:24:02 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by hankk:
Originally posted by kandykarml:
6. Be available to help during school hours with any other photography needed during the year by the yearbook advisors. Clubs, Teams etc.
Then, number 6.. How the heck can I agree to be "available" for them to do shoots for their clubs, games, dances & what not, when this isn't what I do for a living?? That's such a loose statment, I'm not sure how any person in business could agree to it.. It's so open ended, what if it's something that you cannot fulfill...Are they going to refund you the $400 you already paid and then deny the senior portraits you've done?? |
"Be available" is different than "Be there for free". |
I don't think that was her point, though. If she's not a pro she'll have another job, which likely wouldn't allow her to be available during school hours. So if they call her and she says she can't do it, what will they do? |
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03/14/2008 03:29:38 PM · #6 |
Do what you want to do--your shot just won't be in the yearbook.
I think many schools are also doing this to ensure they get all of their senior shots done at the school and the look is consistent throughout the yearbook. Letting seniors choose and then submit their photo ends up w/ some kids sending in b&w, full length shots, outdoor shots, you-name-it, or they don't submit anything at all. I'm a high school teacher and I'd love to say that Seniors can be reliable, but, well, they aren't.
You can do location shots, your own studio (If you have a set up), etc. and decide what to charge for hourly rate/prints/proof book. Your shots will be the lasting "more personal" senior portraits that they will treasure more than their yearbook photo. |
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03/14/2008 03:32:52 PM · #7 |
sounds like shit to me.
eta: the only reasonable requirement is that the photo you take for inclusion in the yearbook conform to some standard. The rest seems like the photographer and the yearbook committee trying to preserve the cartel they have established.
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 15:35:10. |
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03/14/2008 03:41:51 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
... To my surprise, I get this e-mail from a specific photographer here in town stating that they and another photographer have met with the year book advisors from the 3 local high schools and they are now REQUIRING certain criteria to be met from ANY photographer who wishes to take senior portraits.. |
Who is the publisher of the yearbook?
Have you rec'd any communication from the school directly?
I'd call the school office (local high school involved AND the county/city school board) and confirm all of this.
If it's true, then like others have said, let the "studio" take the yearbook photo, and do the other ones for your friends as you see fit. The senior photos that get hung up on grandma/grandpa's wall are the most important ones anyway. |
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03/14/2008 03:44:27 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by frisca:
sounds like shit to me.
eta: the only reasonable requirement is that the photo you take for inclusion in the yearbook conform to some standard. The rest seems like the photographer and the yearbook committee trying to preserve the cartel they have established. |
I'm with you on this !! I understand that if I do the senior portraits I want to do, then my image won't be in the yearbook and that's just the way it is, but that to me is an unfair and huge problem. There are basically two sets of images in a persons life that mean the most.. One, will be seen by more people then any other.. Those two images are the senior portrait & wedding portraits.. The one seen the most, will be the senior portrait.. It's not as if it isn't a big deal.. It's one of the biggest deals in a kids life as they go through their journey of high school.. So, to just dismiss this and say oh well, they can just get it done by that other photog and then do a totally separate session with me is not fair..
That's just my opinion and if I was a student, I'd be pissed off big time if my school forced me to get my pictures done by a certain photographer.. So, I'm going to respond to the e-mail and explain "my situation" and see if they'll make an exception.. Not that I'm expecting them to, but it's worth a shot..Maybe they don't think this will effect any local photog's so they're just rolling with it.. Who knows..
Thanks for all the input !! |
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03/14/2008 03:45:58 PM · #10 |
I can see them wanting consistancy, but just requiring that the photographer have a business licence won't solve that problem.
I believe our high school still does the "production line" method; all yearbook shots done at the school, during school hours, by one set of photographers, same basic pose, same lighting, same cap and gown, etc.
May not make for inspired shots, but it gives the yearbook uniformity, and they're free to the students. Any packages can be arranged independantly but there isn't pressure to buy a package.
I don't know if this method is fair to local shooters, as only one company does all the yearbook shots, but it's certainly cheaper and less stressful for the students and parents.
eta, as more posts appeared while I was typing;
Then again, senior photos don't seem to be such a critical thing here... there isn't that feeling that the world will end if they don't fork out several hundred for them :)
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 15:49:53. |
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03/14/2008 03:46:37 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by kandykarml:
... To my surprise, I get this e-mail from a specific photographer here in town stating that they and another photographer have met with the year book advisors from the 3 local high schools and they are now REQUIRING certain criteria to be met from ANY photographer who wishes to take senior portraits.. |
Who is the publisher of the yearbook?
Have you rec'd any communication from the school directly?
I'd call the school office (local high school involved AND the county/city school board) and confirm all of this.
If it's true, then like others have said, let the "studio" take the yearbook photo, and do the other ones for your friends as you see fit. The senior photos that get hung up on grandma/grandpa's wall are the most important ones anyway. |
But, if you asked a senior.. The most important image is the one that goes in the yearbook.. It's only the parents that feel this way.. And, seriously, what if that picture turns out like crap.. Then this poor senior is stuck with it for the rest of their lives.. I still look back at my parents yearbooks to see how they looked & what the styles were..
I think calling the schools is a great idea.. I'll do that also.. Thank you. |
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03/14/2008 03:47:09 PM · #12 |
My suggestion would be this:
1) Have the parents of the students draft a letter saying they are concerned that only two photographers were consulted and that the parents of children, who clearly have a financial interest, were not remotely involved.
2) Contact a few of the local pro shooters (or ask parents to contact them) and ask if they were aware of these guidelines.
Try to bring some pressure on these two, this sounds like two guys that got a bug up their butt about losing some senior portrait money.
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03/14/2008 04:02:21 PM · #13 |
I'm pretty sure two or more business collaborating (especially with a customer) to set prices/conditions is not allowed ... the Better Business Bureau and/or the local District Attorney and/or the school board/city council may be interested in this "agreement," as it sounds as if it could constitute either price-fixing or restraint of trade or both.
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 16:02:44. |
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03/14/2008 04:17:30 PM · #14 |
Count me in for the "sounds like shit" camp. That sounds like some local yahoo photographers strong-armed some gullible teen members of the Yearbook committee. And I agree with GeneralE on his assessment that this sounds like it's a questionable practice, in legal terms. Clearly the rules were specifically written to suit the interests of a select few.
Our local district has size requirements, and will specify certain constraints about the images (no full-length shots, for example), but those are meant to keep some consistency for the yearbook. That's understandable. The strong-arm stuff is... well... shit. |
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03/14/2008 04:26:49 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by frisca:
sounds like shit to me.
eta: the only reasonable requirement is that the photo you take for inclusion in the yearbook conform to some standard. The rest seems like the photographer and the yearbook committee trying to preserve the cartel they have established. |
I fully agree with this, the whole idea behind a 'Senior' Portrait is so you don't get the same cookie cutter crap the rest of the student body gets. Seriously, you are Graduating HS, its supposed to be a milestone or something.
I say submit this to the BBB and see what they have to say about it. Maybe even check your local business advisor's and such, there should be a SBA center where they can talk to you for free.
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03/14/2008 04:27:29 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'm pretty sure two or more business collaborating (especially with a customer) to set prices/conditions is not allowed ... the Better Business Bureau and/or the local District Attorney and/or the school board/city council may be interested in this "agreement," as it sounds as if it could constitute either price-fixing or restraint of trade or both. |
Didn't see this before I wrote mine, so just add a DittO to this one 6-;
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03/14/2008 04:31:52 PM · #17 |
They are clearly trying to lock up the market.... Unless it was open bid then IMO it's possibly illegal... Unfortunately the lock-up is not illegal but collusion on the prices & photg's should be.... if your put out enough have a suit look at it....
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03/14/2008 04:34:59 PM · #18 |
I don't see how you are being stopped from helping out your friends. You can still shoot as many portraits as you want for their "personal" use and they just go for the free shoot and take the single, free, shot with the contracted one.
They will supply the one which goes in the book which is left in a box, never to be looked at after the initial excitement is over. You get to do the one which hangs on the walls for year and years to come, looked at everyday by their loving families.
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03/14/2008 04:37:32 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Limbo:
I don't see how you are being stopped from helping out your friends. You can still shoot as many portraits as you want for their "personal" use ... |
Probably not on school grounds while they're all dressed up for photo day. |
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03/14/2008 04:41:32 PM · #20 |
I also think that this deal sounds bogus. I would check with the school and/or school board.
As long as a photo meets a set of basic requirements, such as size, resolution, pose, etc, then the photographer shouldn't matter to them.
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03/14/2008 04:57:59 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Limbo:
They will supply the one which goes in the book which is left in a box, never to be looked at after the initial excitement is over. |
Except everytime they open their yearbook to show their family, friends, kids and on and on....
I think it sounds like crap too and that the BBB is probably a good place to start. Good Luck and let us know what comes of this... I'm quite interested. |
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03/14/2008 05:02:42 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Limbo:
I don't see how you are being stopped from helping out your friends. You can still shoot as many portraits as you want for their "personal" use and they just go for the free shoot and take the single, free, shot with the contracted one.
They will supply the one which goes in the book which is left in a box, never to be looked at after the initial excitement is over. You get to do the one which hangs on the walls for year and years to come, looked at everyday by their loving families. |
I agree... I'm NOT BEING STOPPED from doing a free shoot for my friends.. I am however not allowed to include MY IMAGE in the yearbook.. You have to remember what goes on during this time of year.. It's busy busy busy.. How many parents and students want to make appointments to do two senior portrait sessions??
And, the big what if the senior portrait that is put in the yearbook looks like crap.. These photog's are not offering full photo sessions for these kids to chose their "best" imgae from.. And, I do know this for a fact cause I've just done some digging & they offered this same free portrait for the yearbook deal last year.. It was directed though towards the kids who couldn't afford to do senior portraits at all & they used this option & they (only 2 I know of) were treated liked cattle, rushed through the process and sent on their way.. Normally, I would say well, at least you got to have your pictures done by a pro & put in the yearbook.. But, now it's not by choice.. And it's not just the kids who can't afford senior portraits.. The schools are FORCING kids to use these specific photog's for the yearbook picture and most likely, the kids will use these same photog's for their senior portrait packages.. Which is fine.. I'm just not agreeing with the FORCING and REQUIRING that's going on.. That's all..
edit to add: I'm also not ok with requiring a photographer who wants the opportunity to earn a living pay $400 to the school district to simply make that photog eligible to take these portraits.. Does the school make Jack in the Box pay a yearly fee for being built across the street from the local high school therefore profiting off of the students during lunches and breaks??? NO.. In fact, does the school require ANY other business who offers their services to the students to pay them a fee for anything??? Nope..
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 17:07:04. |
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03/14/2008 05:11:30 PM · #23 |
I don't see the problem with having all the cap and gown / team images to look the same by using the same photographer. As has been stated, consistency is what I think they're going for.
The sports and event shots should be open to anyone that can do the job. That's where I think these two photogs are trying to corner the market.
ETA: The school and yearbook committee have probably decided they want a certain look for the book and to make things easier only deal with 1 or 2 studios.
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 17:15:37. |
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03/14/2008 05:23:34 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by secretagent65:
Originally posted by Limbo:
They will supply the one which goes in the book which is left in a box, never to be looked at after the initial excitement is over. |
Except everytime they open their yearbook to show their family, friends, kids and on and on....
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I guess is was different for me growing up. We didn't have a yearbook or anything like that.
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03/14/2008 05:26:00 PM · #25 |
We had a yearbook but no one made a big deal over the pictures being the be all and end all and they'd die if the one that made the yearbook was crap.
Different time and place I guess. |
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