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03/12/2008 11:37:09 AM · #1 |
I'll go ahead and say "Hello" since I haven't been around this site for quite some time.
Anyways, I have always wondered why professional portrait photographers charge a small sitting fee and then sell overpriced prints. Why not just charge a higher sitting fee, and then sell prints at lower prices so that the customer can afford to buy more.
For example...
-Photographer #1
Sitting fee: $50
Typical 8x10 price: $50
Profit from prints sold: $300
-Photographer #2
Sitting fee: $300
Typical 8x10 price: $4
Profits from prints: $50
Almost every phortographer today has someone else do their printing, of course, and they themselves have nothing to do with the process. So why charge so much? Rather than charging absurd prices for prints why not charge higher prices for the actual work you do: taking pictures? This would work better for the customer because they could afford to by many more prints of their photographs, and yet the photographers profit would be about the same.
I'm just curious is all.
Thanks
Caleb
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03/12/2008 11:40:39 AM · #2 |
| Hi Caleb! I have no answers to your questions at all but it was nice to see your name pop up! So hi! |
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03/12/2008 11:41:55 AM · #3 |
| Interesting question. I'm not a pro, so I have not real idea, but just a theory. Perhaps it is a customer perception thing, and people prefer to pay for the physical end product. |
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03/12/2008 11:42:46 AM · #4 |
a studio near me runs it as a free 30 minute shoot, then the prints are outrageously priced. A 5x7 is £10 ($20), 8x10 = £25... i get my 8x12s done for 45p... go figure.
I asked why his prices were such a ripoff and he said it was "company policy", btu I suspect it has something to do with once the parents are through the door for the "free shoot" with their kids, they feel obligated to at least buy 1 print, so even at £25, that's still about £24.50 profit.
So in short, I don't know. People seem to make it up as they go along. I'd charge a sitting fee and throw in 3 8x10s for free (they cost me 35p), then charge £10 for prints after that. But there's no fixed rules to this thing is there really, people will pay what they think something is worth. |
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03/12/2008 11:43:35 AM · #5 |
Good question. It's like charging a "cover" at a club ...
Why charge a small cover and sell expensive drinks - well, once you're in you're in and it's not likely that you will go elsewhere.
Another reason is that this could actually good for the customer - if they don't like the images, they don't pay to have them printed.
The other reason is that the sitting fee is sometimes paid by an organization (like a church)- so they can't charge too much or the customer (the Church or whatever) will go elsewhere - this was the case in an experience I had when getting our church directory photograph.
This is me making assumptions - I've never charged people for sitting ;) |
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03/12/2008 11:56:58 AM · #6 |
Taking it a little further...what about people who don't want prints? Then how will a photographer who charges so little for a sitting fee make money?
I know a lot of models simply want their pictures digitally since most of them have online portfolios these days. They simply don't want or need their pictures in a physical format...
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03/12/2008 11:57:51 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Tez:
a studio near me runs it as a free 30 minute shoot, then the prints are outrageously priced. A 5x7 is £10 ($20), 8x10 = £25... i get my 8x12s done for 45p... go figure. |
What does their gear, electricity, insurance, studio rental, staff wages etc cost ?
How many people do their 'free' sessions and buy one print ? How much does that 30 minute chunk of time cost ?
Spread that over the typical print sales from each session, add in the additional time to organise, print and distribute, schedule sessions, put up with people who never show and so on, and $20 a print isn't much. My friend who does portraits typically does a 2 hour free shoot and usually sells one 20x30 print. The print costs about $5000.
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03/12/2008 11:59:16 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by stare_at_the_sun:
Taking it a little further...what about people who don't want prints? Then how will a photographer who charges so little for a sitting fee make money?
I know a lot of models simply want their pictures digitally since most of them have online portfolios these days. They simply don't want or need their pictures in a physical format... |
You let them buy the digital version for typically a multiple factor of the cost of a single print. Usually digital versions go for about $50 around here
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03/12/2008 12:53:46 PM · #9 |
The customer views the sitting fee as a bet, in the sense that they will be paying this money regardless of what they buy in the end. They are, in essence, risking that fee, betting that the photographer will produce something they will want to purchase.
Now, if you're the customer, would you rather risk $300 or $50 on an uncertain outcome?
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03/12/2008 01:09:31 PM · #10 |
The question I've wondered about... related I think.
Does a low sitting fee=questionable results in a customer's mind? Conversely, does a high fee = high customer confidence in the photogs abilities? I'm speaking about first impressions, where the potential client has only had a chance to take a look at your website.
If I'm the customer, I'd certainly rather risk my $50 rather than $300. Mentally, however, I'd be wondering what I was going to miss by going with the cheaper price. |
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03/12/2008 01:21:09 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
The question I've wondered about... related I think.
Does a low sitting fee=questionable results in a customer's mind? Conversely, does a high fee = high customer confidence in the photogs abilities? I'm speaking about first impressions, where the potential client has only had a chance to take a look at your website.
If I'm the customer, I'd certainly rather risk my $50 rather than $300. Mentally, however, I'd be wondering what I was going to miss by going with the cheaper price. |
Those questions have to go through a customer's mind, asking if a low fee does equal low quality work or not.
That's for the consumer's judgment, hopefully backed up by the photographer's portfolio. Boosting the consumer's confidence in placing that bet is what the photographer's portfolio and other marketing tools need to do. |
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03/12/2008 01:26:33 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by mpeters:
The question I've wondered about... related I think.
Does a low sitting fee=questionable results in a customer's mind? Conversely, does a high fee = high customer confidence in the photogs abilities? I'm speaking about first impressions, where the potential client has only had a chance to take a look at your website.
If I'm the customer, I'd certainly rather risk my $50 rather than $300. Mentally, however, I'd be wondering what I was going to miss by going with the cheaper price. |
Those questions have to go through a customer's mind, asking if a low fee does equal low quality work or not.
That's for the consumer's judgment, hopefully backed up by the photographer's portfolio. Boosting the consumer's confidence in placing that bet is what the photographer's portfolio and other marketing tools need to do. |
On the other hand if the $50 sitting fee guy charges $150 for an 8x10 then the logical conclusion I would make is that he is confident in his finished product. Or, he is looking for a sucker! :) Now someone that doesn't charge a sitting fee but is getting $5000 for a print--I would be confident that he knows his stuff. Can't afford his services though... |
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03/12/2008 02:39:46 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by mpeters:
The question I've wondered about... related I think.
Does a low sitting fee=questionable results in a customer's mind? Conversely, does a high fee = high customer confidence in the photogs abilities? I'm speaking about first impressions, where the potential client has only had a chance to take a look at your website.
If I'm the customer, I'd certainly rather risk my $50 rather than $300. Mentally, however, I'd be wondering what I was going to miss by going with the cheaper price. |
Those questions have to go through a customer's mind, asking if a low fee does equal low quality work or not.
That's for the consumer's judgment, hopefully backed up by the photographer's portfolio. Boosting the consumer's confidence in placing that bet is what the photographer's portfolio and other marketing tools need to do. |
On the other hand if the $50 sitting fee guy charges $150 for an 8x10 then the logical conclusion I would make is that he is confident in his finished product. Or, he is looking for a sucker! :) Now someone that doesn't charge a sitting fee but is getting $5000 for a print--I would be confident that he knows his stuff. Can't afford his services though... |
It's just one part of the puzzle. I'm also sure you've heard anecdotes about the high priced pro that totally failed to deliver the goods and, equally significant, the low priced newcomer who shined. |
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03/12/2008 04:38:48 PM · #14 |
This is how I see it:
You charge £30 sitting fee and you get them through the door.
Once mummy sees GOOD shots of her little darling, she will want prints - lots of them (For Family etc) at what ever you ask for them (Within reason).
You charge £300 sitting fee, and mummy wont even stop to look at your work...
There is obviously a little more to it than that, but it is all about how you sell yourself, how you market your products and whether your portfolio will back you up.
Charging low sitting fees, you may encounter one or two customers that take the "its worth a shot for £30" attitude, thenturn around and say they don't like your shots and don't want any prints. You lose out on a couple of hours shooting/editing. If you are good at what you do, this is unlikely. |
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03/12/2008 05:07:28 PM · #15 |
You have to make a profit to stay in business. As an owner, you pay the bills and the profit is your paycheck. No profit, no paycheck. No paycheck and you have to go get a real job.
Now to make a bigger profit you either need more customers or have each customer spend more money.
So you shoot a session and have 15 images to show the customer. He may buy 1 pose or may buy them all. You don't know. The risk is on the business not the customer when then shoot fee is low - the client doesn't like the pics then he's out $30 not $300. You have a very strong incentive to make good images - to get him to buy more of them!
Any bought image will need some type of edit/retouch/enhance. The more poses bought, the more time required, the fewer poses bought the less time spent.
Alright...so back to your scenario.
$30 session and $50 8x10. Client buys 6 poses. You have a $330 sale and edit 6 images.
$300 session and $4 8x10. Client buys all 15 prints. You have a $360 sale and have to edit 15 images.
Which sounds better to the businessman? Which is actually better for the client? The same one - the $30 session and high per print price.
If you disagree then come on over with your $300 and I'll make such sucky images you won't buy a one. No work for me and lots of money. But you won't be back and will tell everyone how I'm overpriced and a ripoff.
Message edited by author 2008-03-12 17:08:45.
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03/12/2008 05:37:02 PM · #16 |
For me, I mostly do headshots... and actors want a CD of images, not a print. They have special labs for printing headshots that they all go to (like Argentum in Hollywood); so, it's better for me to charge a sitting, or photoshoot, fee and then give them a CD of their images. If they want editing, they pick which ones, and then I charge them for editing by the hour (in 30min increments).
I think it depends on your clientèle's need.
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03/12/2008 05:46:59 PM · #17 |
Pretty much what has been said - i work in such a studio setting and the aim of the game is that most people will think low sitting fee and a free 10x8... cool! They get in and view the images we have done for them, and want more than just a 10x8 and thus spend more. We have had parents weeping in the viewing room... and that is when you know they will spend. It is just a hook and bait system for getting someone to buy something... it isnt brutal salesmanship and forcing people to buy, it is just people dont realise until they see the photos that they actually want them badly enough to spend the money.
High price for a sitting fee is just restrictive and instantly gets rid of a whole swathe of people who are sat on the fence and think "ooo i'll give that a go" and they are the potential customers you want... the person who knows the price and knows what they want and isnt afraid to pay for it has already decided to buy expensive portraiture from a pro photographer so it doesnt matter to them if it is £300 or £30 for a sitting... it does for the "potential" customer. Make sense? |
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03/12/2008 05:50:27 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by inshaala:
We have had parents weeping in the viewing room... and that is when you know they will spend. |
If they're cryin', they're buyin'!
80%+ of photography customers are women, and sales are based on emotion. The more emotion you can get into the image and out of them, the more they want it, and the more they'll pay for it. It's hard to get that emotion before you show them an image.
Message edited by author 2008-03-12 17:51:17.
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