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03/10/2008 09:33:11 AM · #1 |
OK certainly not a completely new topic, but, with a data twist to it.
As shown below, there is no noticeable worsenning - or improvement - of the average # of comments per entry since the creation of DPC, save for short term, challenge to challenge, volatility (graph below are all challenges and last 20 challenges average to see a bit better the trend).
[thumb]656427[/thumb]
Now because comments are a key feature of DPC, I though it would be interesting to find ideas to try to help improve that. There has been in the past suggestions to "force" comments (eg. the previous pop up asking for a comment on low votes). They have not worked. What could work though are "positive" incentive. Nothing very new but what about:
* giving "ranks" to commentors based on number of *useful* comments (to avoid counting worthless comments as rightly noted by Colette below)
* giving more weight in the above high commentors vs others in the votes? it does work in other sites an basically some people have 2 or 3x the weight of the standard voter
* having a more elaborate feedback system than just useful/not useful (by the way this score counts your own replies i n your photo comments as non useful comments)
Also: any idea to try to improve # of comments on avg scorers (it's not the low scores, but the average score pictures that often get the least comments)
Anything else that is not "forcing" people to comment but rather rewarding commentors?
ETA: count *useful* comments
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 11:04:50. |
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03/10/2008 10:26:42 AM · #2 |
| let's have another challenge for people who give more comments than they get. |
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03/10/2008 10:30:02 AM · #3 |
Giving ranks to commenters solely based on number may increase the number of comments however the comments would not show much depth. The benefit of having your vote count more would be an incentive to just add one word comments just to boost numbers.
The best way to get more comments is to post the image in the forums after the voting is over and ask for further feedback. The comments given in this situation would be far better than those given as a way to increase vote weight. |
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03/10/2008 10:31:15 AM · #4 |
commenting a lot improves your ability to take good pictures. You learn what you like and what you don't like.
As a result you tend to take more pictures that you like and that represent the aspects of good photography that you've seen and less of the things that don't work for you. Commenting helps you refine your view and is probably the only really significant avenue for learning that this site provides.
As a result, commenting is its own reward but if people don't want to take advantage of it, it is their loss. the opportunity to improve is there, in front of all of us. It might require time, effort and thought, but then so does any real learning.
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03/10/2008 10:38:46 AM · #5 |
We should be able to check a box to turn off commenting (on your own image) until after the challenge. This will decrease the number of photographs to be commented on, and more people who want comments would get them.
While I don't mind comments, I'd rather they go to people who thrive on them. I'd happily turn mine off. |
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03/10/2008 10:45:09 AM · #6 |
I try to comment on all of the votes I hand out, or least most of them. When I am pressed for time, I may skip some comments and just vote. It's very time consuming getting through 20% of a large challenge if I am trying to provide useful comments on everything.
How about a lower required percentage for your votes to count, if you are commenting on everything? Not sure how tough that would be to implement, though. |
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03/10/2008 10:48:29 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by hopper:
We should be able to check a box to turn off commenting (on your own image) until after the challenge. This will decrease the number of photographs to be commented on, and more people who want comments would get them.
While I don't mind comments, I'd rather they go to people who thrive on them. I'd happily turn mine off. |
I like this idea. Worth1000 has something similar in place. You cannot turn commenting off, but every entry has a option to state under the image whether or not you want critiques/comments, so the voter knows. |
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03/10/2008 10:59:23 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Giving ranks to commenters solely based on number may increase the number of comments however the comments would not show much depth. |
Agree - the idea would be to count helpful comments not all comments. And also, hence my other suggestion to improve the feedback beyond helpful/not helpful. |
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03/10/2008 12:14:18 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by hopper:
We should be able to check a box to turn off commenting (on your own image) until after the challenge. This will decrease the number of photographs to be commented on, and more people who want comments would get them. |
I like this idea. Worth1000 has something similar in place. You cannot turn commenting off, but every entry has a option to state under the image whether or not you want critiques/comments, so the voter knows. |
This idea keeps coming up. I, too, wish it would be implemented. IMHO it would eliminate most of the criticism of the current commenting mechanism.
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03/10/2008 02:36:40 PM · #10 |
| Rather than everyone and the kitchen sink leaving the usual graffiti, I'd rather see more critical, thought-out evidence of someone looking and considering an entry. An increase in numbers alone would be the last thing I'd like to see. |
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03/10/2008 02:40:39 PM · #11 |
good point. One idea could be for example to have some optional fields to invite for more precise comments.
you could have fields like "composition" "technicals" etc.
this would have to be optional on top of the standard grade/generic comment box. |
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03/10/2008 02:50:11 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Rather than everyone and the kitchen sink leaving the usual graffiti, I'd rather see more critical, thought-out evidence of someone looking and considering an entry. An increase in numbers alone would be the last thing I'd like to see. |
To that end, I also think the feedback system needs to be greatly improved, as already originally suggested. |
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03/10/2008 02:51:15 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by mouten:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Giving ranks to commenters solely based on number may increase the number of comments however the comments would not show much depth. |
Agree - the idea would be to count helpful comments not all comments. And also, hence my other suggestion to improve the feedback beyond helpful/not helpful. |
Unfortunately that wouldn't work either as a lot of people use the helpful box to indicate that the comment was read and some don't tick it at all. No control over that so wouldn't be much good for ranking commenters. |
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03/10/2008 02:58:56 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by mouten:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Giving ranks to commenters solely based on number may increase the number of comments however the comments would not show much depth. |
Agree - the idea would be to count helpful comments not all comments. And also, hence my other suggestion to improve the feedback beyond helpful/not helpful. |
Unfortunately that wouldn't work either as a lot of people use the helpful box to indicate that the comment was read and some don't tick it at all. No control over that so wouldn't be much good for ranking commenters. |
You're correct in defining its current use, but the suggestion is to make improvements to a system of "ranking" that is currently simply too vague to be of much use for anything. If it were improved, it would go a long way to making some of the other suggestions possible.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 14:59:04. |
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03/10/2008 03:05:18 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by mouten:
OK certainly not a completely new topic, but, with a data twist to it.
As shown below, there is no noticeable worsenning - or improvement - of the average # of comments per entry since the creation of DPC, save for short term, challenge to challenge, volatility (graph below are all challenges and last 20 challenges average to see a bit better the trend).
[thumb]656427[/thumb]
Now because comments are a key feature of DPC, I though it would be interesting to find ideas to try to help improve that. There has been in the past suggestions to "force" comments (eg. the previous pop up asking for a comment on low votes). They have not worked. What could work though are "positive" incentive. Nothing very new but what about:
* giving "ranks" to commentors based on number of *useful* comments (to avoid counting worthless comments as rightly noted by Colette below)
* giving more weight in the above high commentors vs others in the votes? it does work in other sites an basically some people have 2 or 3x the weight of the standard voter
* having a more elaborate feedback system than just useful/not useful (by the way this score counts your own replies i n your photo comments as non useful comments)
Also: any idea to try to improve # of comments on avg scorers (it's not the low scores, but the average score pictures that often get the least comments)
Anything else that is not "forcing" people to comment but rather rewarding commentors?
ETA: count *useful* comments |
Does your graph take in account the post-challenge comments or these comments during the challenge only. To get a true reading you would need to do a graph only counting the comments that were made during the challenge since most post-challenge comments are congratulatory, not critique style you would see during the challenge and not knowing who the photographer was.
Just my 2 cents.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 15:06:03. |
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03/10/2008 03:10:11 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by mouten:
... One idea could be for example to have some optional fields to invite for more precise comments... |
Additional text fields and/or similar features, I fear, would only encourage potential commentators to stop short of any effort by filling in blanks. The existing format, in its singlular emptiness, is, IMO, less distracting and probably a more effective stimulus.
Instead of adding or manipulating features on the voting page, I'd welcome the idea of conducting occasional challenges that would provide contestants with the opportunity to rate the quality of a comment, and then, have the corresponding stats reflected in the profile pages...
I'd scrap the arbitrary number of (helpful) comments altogether...
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 15:10:58. |
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03/10/2008 03:36:29 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
... provide contestants with the opportunity to rate the quality of a comment, and then, have the corresponding stats reflected in the profile pages...
I'd scrap the arbitrary number of (helpful) comments altogether... |
Seems like it might be possible to adapt the rating system used to rate the helpfulness of the site tutorials. |
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03/10/2008 03:51:03 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
... provide contestants with the opportunity to rate the quality of a comment, and then, have the corresponding stats reflected in the profile pages...
I'd scrap the arbitrary number of (helpful) comments altogether... |
Seems like it might be possible to adapt the rating system used to rate the helpfulness of the site tutorials. |
Yeah, and maybe have a 1-5 range instead of the 1-3 range like in the tutorials? Possible?
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03/10/2008 04:02:20 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Venom:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
... provide contestants with the opportunity to rate the quality of a comment, and then, have the corresponding stats reflected in the profile pages...
I'd scrap the arbitrary number of (helpful) comments altogether... |
Seems like it might be possible to adapt the rating system used to rate the helpfulness of the site tutorials. |
Yeah, and maybe have a 1-5 range instead of the 1-3 range like in the tutorials? Possible? |
And, on the flip side, we should also see stats on how people rate the comments. Same as we have avg rec'd and avg vote cast, there should be avg comment rating rec'd (this is the avg given by others' on the comments left), and the avg comment rating given. If the comment wasn't rated, it should default to an automatic zero (for avg comment cast). |
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03/10/2008 04:03:55 PM · #20 |
Way way confusing to this old broad.
And for those wanting comments:
Past challenge comment requests |
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03/10/2008 04:25:39 PM · #21 |
| you could always offer to pay someone to give you critiques |
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03/10/2008 04:35:00 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
you could always offer to pay someone to give you critiques |
Actually, this could be done, in a sense. The site implemented a system to increase tutorials by giving credit towards membership for writing them. Could this not be done for joining The Critique Club, and X amount of credit given for writing a certain amount of critique club quality comments/critiques? |
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03/10/2008 04:39:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by taterbug:
... X amount of credit given for writing a certain amount of critique club quality comments/critiques? |
The equation between quantity and quality is problematic.
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03/10/2008 04:46:18 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by taterbug:
... X amount of credit given for writing a certain amount of critique club quality comments/critiques? |
The equation between quantity and quality is problematic. |
Well, I certainly agree with you zeus. You are right. It would certainly something that would have to be 'monitered' in someway. I'm just saying, they have done it with tutorials, and I'm sure the same concern applies to some degree, about people just writing some simple quick instruction, and calling it a tutorial for the credit. But, yeah, it very possibly would not work, just a thought :-) |
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03/10/2008 04:51:21 PM · #25 |
Showing who has checked the "I would like an indepth critique on my submission." checkbox might be a good way of showing who is seeking that type of comment. Of course, this is meant for the Critique Club (but that is 'a different thread').
An option for those who do not wish to receive 'criticism' would be good. These people may also wish to have indepth feedback/comments on what people like about their image, but not any criticism. I can understand and respect this. So a way of indicating this in a non 'offensive' way would be good too.
The rating system is a good idea too.
Lastly, a 'flag' post challenge indicating who has received 0 comments (and again, wants them) would help. I'd really like to see this during the challenge, but then the 'unfair' debate sparks up, which of course is no reason to not implement it.
It seems the foundations for a lot of these ideas are already there and some might be fairly 'easy' to implement. However bear in mind that all these 'improvements' are done by one person,  langdon. |
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