The Voting System..Does it work?

01/24/2008 12:07:46 PM · #1

These questions has been on my mind, I have been looking for more feedback out of my Challenge photos. I have had some great people out there help me out, but but getting what I consider low scores for myself and many who are better than I, so lets hear what what you have ti say.
How many people judging our photos have the technical expertise to tell us what we can do better? Maybe a change in the voting system would help people, 1 to 10 with no structure is a very broad and undefined system, especially since very few leave a comment (much less a useful one). there should categorizes like, Focus, composition, creativity, lighting and how publishable it is. It would take that long to fill in four or five dots and it would make the voter look at a picture and think about it longer. Another thing I thought was if you can't vote on your own photo(rightfully so) why should we be able to vote on others in the same challenge? How objective can we be with our own photo in the back of our minds?

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

01/24/2008 12:10:15 PM · #2

Ummm...a politely phrased question here. Have you done a search on this topic? I see you're fairly new to DPC and thought I'd mention it before the dead horse icons insert themselves in here. :-)

01/24/2008 12:11:52 PM · #3

Are you suggesting a DPC challenge that involves taking images of people voting? Or is this in the wrong forum area?

fotomann_forever

01/24/2008 12:12:50 PM · #4

Voters suck, but we love them anyway. :-D

01/24/2008 12:13:39 PM · #5

well, dragging old dead horses out never seems to do much so i shot another one. ;)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/24/2008 12:19:35 PM · #6

Hey Fotoman, I love your work and your right.
Glad2bbad,So if this is a dead issue your telling me this is the best system?
bassbone, Political voters, or DPC voters

ryand

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/24/2008 12:28:06 PM · #7

This may not be the "best" system possible, but if we added more things for voters to do, being the lazy people that voters are, many people would chose not to vote, getting less fair voting.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

01/24/2008 12:29:48 PM · #8

He's telling you that there are a LOT of threads on this issue. In general, it is what it is. In the past, more people commented but there were fewer entries. One of the best ways to improve your own work is to comment a lot on the work of others. By trying to determine what it is you like or don't like about a picture, then trying to explain it, you'll have a better idea (to some extent) of how your own work will be perceived here. And keep in mind "here" isn't everywhere. Some of the stuff I love does very poorly here, but people away from here like it alot. :-)

You might also want to check out one of the new tutorials on "how to vote" - has some excellent ideas.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/24/2008 12:30:05 PM · #9

Yeah, it's an oft-debated topic. No consensus for change has ever been reached.

1. "categorizing" voting elements (so much for composition, so much for technicals, so much for originality, and so forth) has been proposed many times (including by me) and shot down as many times because it is seen as too labor-intensive.

2. Not being allowed to vote on challenges you have entered has been just as often-proposed and also always shot down. The consensus goes something like this: A. people don't enter challenges they are not interested in, and if they aren't interested in them they are unlikely to wade through them and vote on them, so voting statistics would plummet. B. In general, active challenge participants comprise the bulk of the voting pool, so if you couldn't vote on challenges you entered, voting statistics would plummet.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't bring it up, BTW. Discussion is always good. Just to give you a very brief synopsis of "past results" of said discussions...

R.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/24/2008 12:31:30 PM · #10

Hi Thomas,

I see you're new, so welcome!

As others have mentioned, this is an idea that has been discussed extensively in the past. One of the issues with providing 'objective' criteria for voting is that we are judging art, which by its nature is not objective. You might find this recently posted tutorial helpful, as it explains one way those non-objective criteria might apply to voting.

Another issue is that reasonable people often disagree on whether or how heavily various objective criteria should factor into their votes. Some voters consider technicals paramount, while others look at a photo's impact, and give little consideration to those criteria. Even among those who consider technicals important, the relative importance of different items varies.

As to the potential for abuse of the voting system, it is fairly well-known that voting patterns are monitored for signs of abuse. Those who attempt to unfairly sway the results face disqualification and significant suspensions.

~Terry

01/24/2008 12:35:17 PM · #11

Ok, so Laziness seems to be the factor here. On the voter side, is a lazy voter worth having? Did he really look at your work?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/24/2008 12:38:23 PM · #12

thank you for the welcome!

ryand

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/24/2008 12:38:42 PM · #13

Originally posted by Greenman73:

Ok, so Laziness seems to be the factor here. On the voter side, is a lazy voter worth having? Did he really look at your work?

well, most of our voters are lazy, so if it cuts our votes it half to not have them, then yes they are worth having.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

01/24/2008 12:39:03 PM · #14

Originally posted by Greenman73:

Ok, so Laziness seems to be the factor here. On the voter side, is a lazy voter worth having? Did he really look at your work?

Probably not as much as you'd like - but you can't change others. :-)

01/24/2008 12:48:32 PM · #15

Sorry but I cannot agree that quantity is better than quality voting. I would rather have 1/2 the vote with a viable reason. There has to be a solution, with this subject coming up so often. What about my second question of voting in a challenge that you a participating in?

01/24/2008 12:51:27 PM · #16

Originally posted by Greenman73:

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/24/2008 12:51:56 PM · #17

Terry, Lazy people don't typically read tuts. maybe I am beating the "dead Horse" but I like this Site and want the best for and from it.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

01/24/2008 12:55:28 PM · #18

Originally posted by Greenman73:

I think my post should have answered that, as well as offering thoughts on why criteria-based voting hasn't been implemented (in my mind, laziness is not the main reason). If I missed something you want to know, feel free to ask.

~Terry

01/24/2008 12:55:55 PM · #19

Originally posted by bassbone:

Do you have an equitable suggestion as to how to decide who votes in challenges? Currently, all uses can vote on open challenges and all members can vote on member challenges. Who are you going to leave out of voting?

Originally posted by Greenman73:
Sorry but I cannot agree that quantity is better than quality voting. I would rather have 1/2 the vote with a viable reason. There has to be a solution, with this subject coming up so often. What about my second question of voting in a challenge that you a participating in?

I just do not believe people are objective in general when they are in the competition. there are often two challenges you have to choose from compete in one and vote in the other.

01/24/2008 01:03:20 PM · #20

A bit of math to emphasize your proposal to eliminate entrants as voters...I have seen similar studies before and they all show the same thing. A single voter voting down other entries will not have a significant impact on the final score.

Sample
A photo entry has a 7.0 score with 200 votes. An entrant who also votes, gives the top images a low vote to improve their own place...

7.00 x 200 = 1400 voting points (to start).

Say the entrant gives a 1 to a top image - the average score would then be 1401/201 = 6.97
Say the entrant gives a 5 to the top image - the ave score would then be 1405/201 = 6.99
Say the entrant gives a 10 to the top image - the ave score woudl then be 7.01

The difference is almost non-existant. A single voter does not impact the scores much when you have a statistically significant number of votes...

Originally posted by Greenman73:

Originally posted by bassbone:
Do you have an equitable suggestion as to how to decide who votes in challenges? Currently, all uses can vote on open challenges and all members can vote on member challenges. Who are you going to leave out of voting?

Originally posted by Greenman73:
Sorry but I cannot agree that quantity is better than quality voting. I would rather have 1/2 the vote with a viable reason. There has to be a solution, with this subject coming up so often. What about my second question of voting in a challenge that you a participating in?

I just do not believe people are objective in general when they are in the competition. there are often two challenges you have to choose from compete in one and vote in the other.

01/24/2008 01:04:11 PM · #21

Ok what about this (I am new and feel there are far more qualified photographers out there to make the criteria)
1-10 tech
1-10 artistic
1-10 relating challenge subject matter

01/24/2008 01:07:24 PM · #22

I don't care about who wins, I care about WHY we lose. I'm not crying about why i suck, I want to know why and how to be better.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/24/2008 01:09:00 PM · #23

I think the elephant in the room is that voting/ commenting on your images doesn't really constitute a particularly useful way to improve your photography or educate yourself. Applying yourself works:

vote/ comment on other people's images can help
taking a lot of pictures and critically looking at them can help
taking a class can help
reading a lot can help
looking critically at images from the greats can help - if you break down what you like about them
enlisting the help of someone to teach you can help.

Asking 300 randomly selected people if they like or don't like your picture just gives you an average view of the popularity of a particular shot. It is maybe useful to know if you are looking to sell images to that small group, but as an educational tool - not so good.

01/24/2008 01:09:45 PM · #24

BTW Bassbone, you are an excellent photographer!