Moderation is evil. - DPChallenge Forums

06/08/2002 02:29:22 AM · #1

I don't think the new moderation regime in these forums is going to work the way it's intended. We've already seen that locking a discussion thread just creates more new ones on the same subject, and always will. People will find a way to say what they want to say. Those who actually have their comments censored will not go away, nor will they be more polite, they will just get angry and try to be more offensive.

A site like this that brings together people from a wide range of backgrounds, bruises egos with its voting scheme, and involves artistic temperament in a very direct way, is not going to be easily moderated. I suggest that the rant forum be left unmoderated, or perhaps a new one be created, so that people can just run off at the mouth with a clear warning visible at the top of each page so people know that if they go in there they might be offended. Threads in other forums that get too heated could perhaps be moved there instead of closed.

If not this, then something else needs to be done so people can say what they like without being treated in such a heavy handed way. Otherwise, it just seems like an exercise in futility to me. It definitely won't create the right conditions for a healthy discussion about creativity, or any kind of atmosphere where anyone would want their photographs critiqued.

ryano

Casio Exilim EX-Z3

06/08/2002 06:04:36 AM · #2

stfu

06/08/2002 06:34:59 AM · #3

Digipixer

Canon Power Shot SX10 IS

06/08/2002 07:10:47 AM · #4

krtm <..>

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/8/2002 7:11:40 AM.

06/08/2002 08:38:31 AM · #5

hey lisae. i fully agree, with the one caveat: this is drew/lang's site, and they can do whatever they please. if they want to *only* allow posts that contain the f word, thet can. if they want to make this about worshipping their god, they can. if they want it to be about fetish pictures of fat, bearded ladies, they CAN - and we can't say sh_t : ).

again, the problem of classifying a group as homogenous, even though it has rather disparate elements. the group being referred to is 'moderators'. and as you can see, the people chosen definitely run the gamut of personality and background.

first of all, i think 'moderator' is a mis-title. i don't see my role here as 'moderating' *anything.* what happened was that drew/lang (hencforth D/L) asked for help. amongst the things they wanted help with were proposing new features, dealing with ideas like multiple challenges, writing tutorials -- basically, putting together a good creative team.

apparently the other side of it is that as the site has grown, they've realized they can't be everywhere at once. that's all well and good. wrt editing posts: i dont really see myself doing that too much.

i think it's a waste of my time to run around trying to edit every post someone leaves, and afaik, the internet is an adult medium anyway. i know, there are people who disagree with me - there are children reading the site, etc etc but I actually i dont think there's a child alive that hasn't heard the f word, no matter how old.

i know my friends and i were laughing at dirty jokes when we were 6 or 7, even if we didn't completely understand them ; ).

i also think it's a waste of my time to tell people they are having a pointless argument (this is regarding the mandarin elements threads mostly). who am i to tell people not to waste their time? that's their business, not mine - i gots more important stuff to worry about.

so that's what I think. some of the other mods may think differently, and i'm sure they do - we're all just human beings, after all. but no, in know way has there been a 'regime' spelled out. i think we're actually just trying to figure out just where we fit into this great, grand ecosystem. nothing more, nothing less.

MandarinElements

06/08/2002 10:59:22 AM · #6

Relating to...

(this is regarding the mandarin elements threads mostly).

My comment is...

:-D
(I spread across the forums like a weed)

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/8/2002 11:00:29 AM.

06/08/2002 11:10:20 AM · #7

do it, yo. like i said, above, it doesnt matter to me : )

.. i mean, if that's how you or anyone else wants to spend your time, it's your life, right? : ) I can't see that it hurts anyone ..

btw, thanks for the extremely kind comments on my pic. I did respond to you on that page.

..

06/08/2002 11:11:10 AM · #8

I agree that this is Drew and Langdons site in the hardware sense and the general direction sense but because this site is nothing without the contributors I would say we are all a community more than "visitors".

I am very apreciative of the work they put in..but I think they know as well as we all do that running a particiaption site is not the same as running a Webzine.

Webzines are totally owned, operated and content driven by the webmaster/owner. Participation sites are community driven.

So I guess we should say it's more community standards here than "Drew and Langdon can do whatever they please".

That also take some of the heat off D/L as they don't have to bear the brunt of people saying "Drew and Langdon are facist dictators". But now we can say "Drew, Langdon, Shortredneck, Magnetic, JMSetzler and Gordon are facist dictators"...;-)

06/08/2002 11:18:51 AM · #9

sure. but ultimately, no matter what, they could say 'hey, magnetic, we don't need your libertarian forum-malingering self around here - we want this site to spread the Message of the One-Eyed Frozen Siberian Leopard Cult. So away with you! And anyone else who isn't into that: begone also."

In other words, it is truly their choice as to which kind of community they want to even have here.

As for blame and credit - it's true. we cast our lot in with them. we can no longer be seen, I suppose, any longer as independent individuals who just happen to be doing a favor to someone and helping out with a website. now that it says 'moderator' after my name, i'm automatically going to be mentally placed into a category. it's human nature to label and generalize. whatever d/l decide to do now reflects on me.

however, they are pretty righteous dudes, so for the most part, I trust them to do the right thing. and if they don't, then we'll cross that bridge then ..

Originally posted by hokie:
I agree that this is Drew and Langdons site in the hardware sense and the general direction sense but because this site is nothing without the contributors I would say we are all a community more than "visitors".

I am very apreciative of the work they put in..but I think they know as well as we all do that running a particiaption site is not the same as running a Webzine.

Webzines are totally owned, operated and content driven by the webmaster/owner. Participation sites are community driven.

So I guess we should say it's more community standards here than "Drew and Langdon can do whatever they please".

That also take some of the heat off D/L as they don't have to bear the brunt of people saying "Drew and Langdon are facist dictators". But now we can say "Drew, Langdon, Shortredneck, Magnetic, JMSetzler and Gordon are facist dictators"...;-)

06/08/2002 11:21:06 AM · #10

I agree 100% with everything you said Magnetic..and I have vistied enough of Drew and Langdons websites and other endeavours to realize they are pretty smart.

Just saying that when you have a participation site..it's less dictator and more orchestrator :-)

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/08/2002 11:25:01 AM · #11

My point was not about who the new moderators are, but the tactics that are being used. I don''t mind that some really great people now have "Moderator" under their name. I just mind that discussions are being locked and people are being censored. I guess if you take those tactics away, the moderators don''t matter anyway, but anyway... that''s my point of view.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/8/2002 11:26:05 AM.

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

06/08/2002 11:32:34 AM · #12

They really shouldn't be named moderators. Langdon and I finished the feature, and we were too excited about it to think of a good name for them, so we went with a generic user term. Originally, we were going to call them "the jury". Their job is to help us help you on the site. The site is growing so fast, it's quickly becoming impossible for us to listen to everything you want or don't want. So, we invited several of our most active users for the job. Their real purpose, as magnetic pointed out, is to suggest new features we've missed in the forums, give us feedback about new and existing features, and help us determine the direction for the future of the site.

We gave them the ability to edit posts in the forums for the same reason -- we're not able to keep track of everything on the site anymore. Only one post has been edited by a moderator to my knowledge, and I fully back up that edit. I'd put money on some of them never using their ability to edit posts. In regards to the locked posts: it was a silly argument over a bunch of misunderstandings having nothing to do with digital photography or even creativity, and it was only making people mad. I locked the thread so everyone could cool down and let it go, and I didn't understand when people wanted to reignite that. Maybe it just upsets me to see everyone arguing on the site, when all it's here for is fun :)

The "moderators" really need a new name -- this was our fault.

And I also don't really agree with the "this is our site, you will do what we say" idea. The only thing we're trying to do is keep the site moving in a positive direction. I apologize if that intent has become clouded in recent weeks. Langdon and I both love the site, and we're infinitely grateful to all of you who use it and make us feel like it was worth all the hard work.

Drew

shortredneck

Olympus C-3000Z

06/08/2002 11:33:59 AM · #13

Look all I did was edit the word MF when it was directed at someone else. The new rules spell out no slander and no blatant vulgarity. If any of you have anything to say about it, how about private messaging me and we will discuss this privately. Yes, I am a Christian with Christian principals. But I don't believe I have made a practice of preaching and Bible thumping on this site. I have gotten a little tired of the veiled references to "church moms" and people trying to force their beliefs on others.

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/08/2002 11:36:09 AM · #14

Originally posted by lisae:
My point was not about who the new moderators are, but the tactics that are being used. I don''t mind that some really great people now have "Moderator" under their name. I just mind that discussions are being locked and people are being censored. I guess if you take those tactics away, the moderators don''t matter anyway, but anyway... that''s my point of view

The only thread that has been edited by a moderator said something to the effect of "You stupid motherf*ckers" -- on its own line, with no intent but to piss people off. The two users who have been 'censored' are friends of Langdon, and they're trying to mess with the site. The locked threads are also in no way related to the moderators.

Drew

06/08/2002 11:37:12 AM · #15

maybe we shouldn''t have a ''title'' at all?

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/8/2002 11:38:06 AM.

06/08/2002 11:42:44 AM · #16

shortredneck..I can appreciate your opinion and I agree that using the MF word to just add fuel to a pointless fire is a reasonable edit.

I am the biggest user of curse words and use "f this" and "f that" so often I gotta watch it when talking in public but when typing I don't see any reason to curse as typing is more thought out.

I should also point out shortredneck that moderating is the most hated position on the internet and it takes a very hardened person with the patience of Job to handle it. I for instance, while a very tolerant man would get no joy from such a task. Just saying that moderators should expect to have have the dirtiest job on the internet and be prepared to accept the grief :-)

06/08/2002 11:46:31 AM · #17

To reiterate my previous point, I don't have any issues with the people who are now called moderators. I'm not angry about any specific actions that have been taken. I'm not arguing about the particulars of either the threads that have so far been locked or the single post that was censored. It's just that approach in general that I am trying to discuss here. I am predicting that over time it won't create harmony, only division and resentment, which is something I've seen happen in other forums, news groups, mailing lists, etc. It's the act of moderating, ie. actively silencing and censoring users, that bugs me, in general, and I don't think it will lead the site anywhere useful or pleasant.

shortredneck

Olympus C-3000Z

06/08/2002 11:55:02 AM · #18

Yeah it's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

Don't think I'm sitting hear crying about this whole mess. In fact when it started yesterday I was laughing at how it messed with the minds of the instigators. Unless they get out of hand, I find them to be quite amusing and have told them so on several occasions.

I have a thicker skin than you could possibly know. My life has not been all sweet and innocent in the past. I have only made changes in my life in the past year and I don't think this forum is the place to go into them.