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02/23/2004 01:48:12 AM · #1 |
Well, to say that I'm dissapointed with the finish of my Four Elements entry, "Mired," is an understatement (finished 110th with a score of 4.8. I thought it would have done much better and I thought it was my most creative entry to date...but, I guess I have a lot (A LOT) to learn.
Was it the soft focus?; the boring subject matter?; the ugly surroundings?; Was it over-sharpened? Here's what I liked about it: For one, I liked the perspective as the eye is led down from the lower left to the upper right as it provides depth. I also liked the subject matter, as this was a view of the bottom of the bay, and I also liked the dilapidated boat that I thought went very well with the surroundings.
I received 5 comments during voting and found them for the most part helpful, but would like to maximize this learning experience even further. I'd really appreciate it if you could spend just a couple of short minutes providing more input as to why this did as poorly as it did. Be direct and to the point...be harsh, and curse and swear, if you must, I'm man enough to take it...just don't yell and scream :)
Come one and all, see it here  |
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02/23/2004 02:13:16 AM · #2 |
Oly, you of all people deserve a few minutes of everyones time, given the number of comments you've made on other photos.
Here's my take:
Likes - I like the subject, I like the perspective and the angle at which you approached the boat, i like the choice of BW, and I like the fact that the light prominently hits the boat (which identifies it as the subject to me).
Dislikes - there are a number of blown out spots; the boat is overexposed in some places, as are many of the reflections off the water (hard to avoid, but a little creativity with exposures will remedy this if you don't want to or can't do it in Photoshop). There are a number of distracting elements; promarily the tree branches at the top and the twigs etc on the bottom left. A tighter crop would clean the image up and draw your eye to the subject. As it stands, I keep getting pulled away from the boat. Lastly, the crop; as you indicated, the lines tend to lead towards the boat, but you almost left too much space on the right of the boat for my tastes. I'd have left as much space on the right as you did at the top, which would not only take out some more of the distraction i mentioned, but it would also make a cleaner diagonal.
This shot could certainly be improved, but by no means deserved a 4.8 or whatever it got. I think you were a victim of both really stiff competition (yes people DO tend to vote on a curve), and the fact that there were three challenges and 700-ish pictures to vote on at the same time...perhaps people just didn't give it the second look it deserved.
Keep your chin up - there's lots to be learned through ours and the mistakes of others. good luck,
Pedro |
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02/23/2004 02:48:06 AM · #3 |
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02/23/2004 03:41:48 AM · #4 |
| There is one thing I'd like to say about using Photoshop to correct pictures. If it is obvious that you made heavy use of it, people tend to vote you down. They will even do that if they think you used it heavily even if you didn't. My advice is to be subtle about it. |
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02/23/2004 03:45:10 AM · #5 |
I have always said that I don't think they do vote down, perhaps a small minority.
This is photoshoped very heavily and everyone knew it was:  |
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02/23/2004 05:03:01 AM · #6 |
Funny thing is that I gave this one:
(8)
then this one:
(7)
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02/23/2004 07:21:31 AM · #7 |
Left you a comment, hope it is somewhat helpful.
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02/23/2004 10:25:58 AM · #8 |
| I liked your shot a lot Oly. Looked at it more than once. I wouldn't call it soft focus but not "crisp" either. To my eye it looks slightly oversharpened without acheiving a crisp look. What I thought about was how it would look in color. Maybe a bright colored boat would contrast with the drabness of the surface. Maybe a little bit longer perspective so the boat was in a rule of thirds position on a bigger beach, or bay bottom. Also may have lost points for not being more strictly on topic. It doesn't show directly one of the Four Elements, although it is clearly related to water. |
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02/23/2004 11:34:08 AM · #9 |
Thanks to all who have commented and contributed so far, especially to Pedro, for the nice comment which really made me feel good.
The shot, imo, was not heavily post-processed at all: crop, convert to greyscale, levels/contrast adjustments, clone tool and USM (amount 60, radius 0.8, threshold 3).
I guess the reason that I left so much surroundings in the picture was to emphasize the 4 elements theme of the challenge. In this picture, I thought that mud was a good representation of that being a combo of water and earth.
It seems the consensus amoung the commenters in this forum is that a tighter crop would have benefited the picture a great deal, so I redid the picture with a tighter crop and most of the other adjustments the same. Please tell me if this is an improvement. I don't want to take up too much of your time, so a simple yay/nay would suffice.
Thanks again to all. View it here: 
Edit: BTW...this photo was taken hand held at a focal length of 70 (35mm equivalent of 388). This may have accounted for some of the focus issues, even though my camera has image stabilization.
Message edited by author 2004-02-23 11:36:49. |
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02/23/2004 01:15:51 PM · #10 |
What Pedro said, and I'd add that I think it may be over sharpened a bit which makes all the white spots stick out a little more. The soft focus might have worked in your advantage if you didn't sharpen it and made it look like that was your intention.
I really like the compositon and the subject, but the white spots are too distracting for me to score it really high. I'd have probably given it a 6.
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02/23/2004 01:18:48 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
Oly, you of all people deserve a few minutes of everyones time, given the number of comments you've made on other photos.
Here's my take:
Likes - I like the subject, I like the perspective and the angle at which you approached the boat, i like the choice of BW, and I like the fact that the light prominently hits the boat (which identifies it as the subject to me).
Dislikes - there are a number of blown out spots; the boat is overexposed in some places, as are many of the reflections off the water (hard to avoid, but a little creativity with exposures will remedy this if you don't want to or can't do it in Photoshop). There are a number of distracting elements; promarily the tree branches at the top and the twigs etc on the bottom left. A tighter crop would clean the image up and draw your eye to the subject. As it stands, I keep getting pulled away from the boat. Lastly, the crop; as you indicated, the lines tend to lead towards the boat, but you almost left too much space on the right of the boat for my tastes. I'd have left as much space on the right as you did at the top, which would not only take out some more of the distraction i mentioned, but it would also make a cleaner diagonal.
This shot could certainly be improved, but by no means deserved a 4.8 or whatever it got. I think you were a victim of both really stiff competition (yes people DO tend to vote on a curve), and the fact that there were three challenges and 700-ish pictures to vote on at the same time...perhaps people just didn't give it the second look it deserved.
Keep your chin up - there's lots to be learned through ours and the mistakes of others. good luck,
Pedro |
Getting a little long winded in your old age, eh Pedro? *giggles behind hand* tehehehehehehehe
Message edited by author 2004-02-23 13:19:10. |
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02/23/2004 01:59:18 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I guess the reason that I left so much surroundings in the picture was to emphasize the 4 elements theme of the challenge. In this picture, I thought that mud was a good representation of that being a combo of water and earth.
It seems the consensus amoung the commenters in this forum is that a tighter crop would have benefited the picture a great deal, so I redid the picture with a tighter crop and most of the other adjustments the same. Please tell me if this is an improvement. I don't want to take up too much of your time, so a simple yay/nay would suffice.
Thanks again to all. View it here:
Edit: BTW...this photo was taken hand held at a focal length of 70 (35mm equivalent of 388). This may have accounted for some of the focus issues, even though my camera has image stabilization. |
The tighter crop is a more dynamic photo. Whether it represents the 4 elements any better is another question, however as a photo, the 2nd is better.
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02/23/2004 09:03:56 PM · #13 |
This is the way I think I'd try it:
I cropped and used curves to reduce the highlights. It may look a little dark, but that's the only way i could do it within Basic editing rules (otherwise I'd have dodged and burned :)).
Regarding your use of USM: Try it again using a lower radius (.3 - .4 tops) and a higher percentage/amount (start at 300-ish). The higher radius on a lower resolution image tends to add a lot of white, since it affects more pixels around the edges.
I would leave threshold at zero unless it gets really noisy.
I've had good luck sharpening using this method, which i got from this article that Scab-Lab posted a while back.
good luck,
Pedro |
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02/23/2004 09:15:22 PM · #14 |
Olyuzi, your 21st Century Roadside is a prime example of my feeling [expressed in my comment on your Four Elements shot]. 21st Century had a lot going for it...interest, attractive. UGLY rarely gets high numbers, and a beached boat on a mud flat is UGLY. It does not matter that the highlights are just so, etc... PRETTY is IMPORTANT!!!
You have real talent...do not agonize about making a silk purse of a sow's ear. |
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