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11/05/2007 07:30:42 AM · #1 |
| Ok, people, here we go. Does that mean that tri-tones and quadtones are allowed as well? With advanced editing, you can use more than two tones and it still "looks" like a duotone. Are they using the term generally, or do we have to just use TWO colors?? |
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11/05/2007 07:47:17 AM · #2 |
oh my, let's start last years duotone discussion again...
;-P
ETA: i meant this one
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 07:48:53. |
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11/05/2007 01:28:11 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
Ok, people, here we go. Does that mean that tri-tones and quadtones are allowed as well? With advanced editing, you can use more than two tones and it still "looks" like a duotone. Are they using the term generally, or do we have to just use TWO colors?? |
I was wondering the same, given the way the description is written. But then, the description doesn't seem to have changed over the years for this challenge.
How would this photo hold up in a Duotone challenge today I wonder? Technically it has 3 tones doesn't it?
 - by  Jean
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11/05/2007 01:52:00 PM · #4 |
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
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11/05/2007 02:05:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by annpatt:
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
:-P But does that apply to photography vs printing?
What you're saying is white doesn't count as a tone? Hmmm. Could be interesting. :-)
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11/05/2007 02:10:42 PM · #6 |
Don't most people perceived Grayscale as black and white? Since it's varying shades of black?
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11/05/2007 02:22:59 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by annpatt:
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
:-P But does that apply to photography vs printing?
What you're saying is white doesn't count as a tone? Hmmm. Could be interesting. :-) |
Duotone is a printing term. In fact, accurately previewing a duotone digitally is all but impossible. It's been a problem in the print business for years. Issues like spot color, dot angle, dot gain have always been challenges in the digital age.
And yes, white is assumed. Ever seen a white ink in a color printer? Screen printing on t-shirts other than white required a white plate and white ink in the off set printing process.
By definition, duotones are 2 ink colors other than white. In the off set printing world, color printing in magazines, news papers, catalogs, etc. are 4-color printing, All the colors you see are an optical illusion created by cyan, magenta, yellow, and black inks on white paper. The angle and density of the dots give the illusion of full color.
Ink Jet printing is called Stochastic printing, the colors are mixed and sprayed onto the paper in the printing process. This is why we get more photo quality from an ink jet printer than you see in magazines.
I think for the purposes of this challenge, they are going for something other than standard B&W and full color, like sepia toned, blue and white, red and white, etc.
Look in some magazines or do a google search. You'll see several examples. |
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11/05/2007 02:29:01 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by annpatt:
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
I second this, duotones are spot colours in offset printing. White (paper background) is'nt considered a colour, unless we mix maybe reflex blue with an opaque white ink. But duotone as far as i'm concerned is 2 spot colours only. In photoshop there is a clear distinction between duotone, tritone and quadtone. So I would only use the same principle involved in printing which is 2 spot colours.
But i dont see how it would make a difference here, because the images are converted to RGB anyway, so as to be viewed on the screen. And also converted to cmyk to be printed on a printer.
All IMHO
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 14:29:23.
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11/05/2007 02:31:39 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by annpatt:
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
:-P But does that apply to photography vs printing?
What you're saying is white doesn't count as a tone? Hmmm. Could be interesting. :-) |
Duotone is a printing term. ......
And yes, white is assumed. ......
By definition, duotones are 2 ink colors other than white. ......
I think for the purposes of this challenge, they are going for something other than standard B&W and full color, like sepia toned, blue and white, red and white, etc.
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Sorry. Thanks for the info - mostly helpful, but also slightly confusing. If white is assumed and two other ink colors would make the duotone, then wouldn't just red & white be a monotone?
I was thinking more along the lines of something like this (blue/black/white):
 - Yes/No?
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11/05/2007 02:34:06 PM · #10 |
I was gonna reply earlier but got sidetracked.
It's true that "duotone", properly speaking, is a printing/graphic arts term. We don't HAVE true duotones in the Photoshop/screen display world.
That said, Photoshop DOES have "duotones" as an option for image processing, and what this produces is what we old-school photographers would call a "tinted" image. So basically the challenge is asking for tinted B/W images, IMO.
R.
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11/05/2007 02:36:15 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Sorry. Thanks for the info - mostly helpful, but also slightly confusing. If white is assumed and two other ink colors would make the duotone, then wouldn't just red & white be a monotone?
I was thinking more along the lines of something like this (blue/black/white):
- Yes/No? |
Yup, that's basically a blue/black duotone, by Photoshop definition anyway.
R.
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11/05/2007 02:37:13 PM · #12 |
| In PSE2.0 I would convert to b&w and then use the "color variation" tool to tweak it to the color I wanted. I use this method for any sepia type images. Not sure if thats available in all of the PSE versions. |
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11/05/2007 02:39:17 PM · #13 |
Thanks Robert. I was worried someone was going to come back and say that was a tritone. :-)
Think I'm good now. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Please, carry on if so desired. :-D
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11/05/2007 02:41:25 PM · #14 |
My PS (CS2) doesn't have duotones as its own distinct feature for image processing, at least not that I've ever found. But it's easy enough to create them with gradient maps and/or color balance. Hardly any of my b/w photos are true grayscales - they're actually yellow/blue duotones. I usually bump the highlights slightly yellow and the shadows slightly blue, which adds depth to an otherwise flat image.
 
My guess, though, knowing DPC, is that the color will need to be more obvious to avoid the DNMCs.
**Realizing these are actually tritones, with a red bump in the midtones, but the principal still applies.
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 14:43:48.
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11/05/2007 02:45:33 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by annpatt:
In printing, a duotone is something that is printed with two ink colors, usually black and another color. The white in the picture in question is the "paper" color, and isn't an ink color.
The challenge description muddles the issue by listing black/white as a duotone, when it's really a monotone (black ink only). |
:-P But does that apply to photography vs printing?
What you're saying is white doesn't count as a tone? Hmmm. Could be interesting. :-) |
Duotone is a printing term. ......
And yes, white is assumed. ......
By definition, duotones are 2 ink colors other than white. ......
I think for the purposes of this challenge, they are going for something other than standard B&W and full color, like sepia toned, blue and white, red and white, etc.
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Sorry. Thanks for the info - mostly helpful, but also slightly confusing. If white is assumed and two other ink colors would make the duotone, then wouldn't just red & white be a monotone?
I was thinking more along the lines of something like this (blue/black/white):
- Yes/No? |
Technically, you're OK, but I don't think that would pass as a true duotone.
Keep in mind, as you can have many shades of gray in a B&W photo, a duotone can have several shades of the the 2 colors.
Let me correct myself on one thing, Duotone means black and one other color. I didn't mean to imply that you could use any 2 colors.
I did a Google Search and found this
//noahgrey.com/photography/series/seriesview.php?g=duotones
This is what I consider to be duotones. The top image, if printed, would consist of black ink and blue ink, the bottom image would consist of blank ink and an orange or reddish ink. Of course, they would be printed on white stock.
Seems like some are thinking the colors must be solid black and solid blue, for example. I do not see that as the case here.
Look back at Duotones II There are some really nice examples.
You'll see that duotones have a look about them that is different than straight B&W photography. |
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11/05/2007 02:50:14 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Technically, you're OK, but I don't think that would pass as a true duotone. |
Just HAD to do that didn't you. :-P
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11/05/2007 02:58:33 PM · #17 |
I'll ring in here to say that the challenge description specifically mentions B&W, so it's not really fair to ding people for putting in B&W (cue the people who say that grayscale isn't literally B&W, either).
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11/05/2007 03:04:50 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
I'll ring in here to say that the challenge description specifically mentions B&W, so it's not really fair to ding people for putting in B&W (cue the people who say that grayscale isn't literally B&W, either). |
So take your B&W and add a tint to it? This isn't 'real' duotone in the printing sense. Like Bear_Music said, it a tinted B&W.
The difference can be subtle, what may look like a B&W at first may indeed be a duotone on further examination. That said, images simply converted to B&W without a nod to duotones will not score as high from me, but that's just one guys votes.
The description does say B&W, but this is not a B&W challenge.
I recommend to Langdon and/or Drew that they clarify the description, because B&W is not a duotone.
In fact, I'll put in a ticket. |
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11/05/2007 03:22:05 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
My PS (CS2) doesn't have duotones as its own distinct feature for image processing, at least not that I've ever found. |
yes it does. open an image and go to Image > Mode > Grayscale
then go Image > Mode > Duotone and from that dialog box you can use up to 4 other colors to add to your image.
:) |
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11/05/2007 03:25:08 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by Rebecca:
My PS (CS2) doesn't have duotones as its own distinct feature for image processing, at least not that I've ever found. |
yes it does. open an image and go to Image > Mode > Grayscale
then go Image > Mode > Duotone and from that dialog box you can use up to 4 other colors to add to your image.
:) |
Beat me to it :-)
R.
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11/05/2007 03:28:34 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Let me correct myself on one thing, Duotone means black and one other color. I didn't mean to imply that you could use any 2 colors. |
I think you are wrong here -- as you mentioned before, a duotone is an image printed with any two inks.
Duotones in Photoshop are found in the Image > Mode > Duotone menu, which brings up a dialog box allowing you to specify the two colors and the tone curves which affect them.
To make a duotone in PS, you must start with a Grayscale image -- PS then maps those tonal values to varying amounts of the two colors according to those tone curves. You must then convert back to RGB mode in order to save as a JPEG.
If you look at the duotone "presets" which come with PS, you'll see many combinations of colors which don't include black.
As Bear_Music mentioned, the photographic equivalent of a duptone is a toned or tinted photo, so it will usually be black with varying amounts of the second color showing up in the areas which are not pure black.
If the challenge description includes B&W, I don't see where anyone can logically penalize someone who chooses to only use black.
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 15:32:29. |
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11/05/2007 03:48:12 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If the challenge description includes B&W, I don't see where anyone can logically penalize someone who chooses to only use black. |
I hear what you're saying. As I said, the challenge description needs to be corrected, and I put in a ticket.
A B&W is not a duotone, it's a monotone, regardless of the challenge description.
I'm not usually one to nitpick the description, however, when the challenge name is something as definable as this is and the challenge description contradicts the challenge title, we have to choose one over the other.
You have the option of correcting the conflict between the challenge title and the challenge description. I highly recommend you (the SC) does so.
This is the same thing as having a challenge title called Black and White and the description stating "Use Black White and/or Full Color in you image"
I know what a duotone is and I will vote accordingly. Now, I am not a troll voter and never have been. If I see an image that I think deserves less than a 5 or a 4, I generally pass on that entry. I don't vote to punish or embarrass a member like some voters. I try to be positive and constructive.
And if this is a learning process, let's learn what a duotone is and isn't.
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11/05/2007 03:49:59 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If the challenge description includes B&W, I don't see where anyone can logically penalize someone who chooses to only use black. |
I hear what you're saying. As I said, the challenge description needs to be corrected, and I put in a ticket.
A B&W is not a duotone, it's a monotone, regardless of the challenge description.
I'm not usually one to nitpick the description, however, when the challenge name is something as definable as this is and the challenge description contradicts the challenge title, we have to choose one over the other.
You have the option of correcting the conflict between the challenge title and the challenge description. I highly recommend you (the SC) does so.
This is the same thing as having a challenge title called Black and White and the description stating "Use Black White and/or Full Color in you image"
I know what a duotone is and I will vote accordingly. Now, I am not a troll voter and never have been. If I see an image that I think deserves less than a 5 or a 4, I generally pass on that entry. I don't vote to punish or embarrass a member like some voters. I try to be positive and constructive.
And if this is a learning process, let's learn what a duotone is and isn't. |
If you don't vote under four for a photo that, in your opinion deserves it, then you a propping up that image artificially.
Isn't it better to just vote honestly? Voting 1-3 is NOT troll voting in any way shape or form -- unless that it all you vote.
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11/05/2007 03:53:10 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Let me correct myself on one thing, Duotone means black and one other color. I didn't mean to imply that you could use any 2 colors. |
I think you are wrong here -- as you mentioned before, a duotone is an image printed with any two inks.
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OK, I'll give you that one on a technicality, here's a definition I found
"Duotones are made by printing an image with two colors, usually black and a second color. The resulting image has more depth than it would have had with only a monotone color (mostly black ink on white paper)."
In the print world, I've only ever seen black and some other color.
My overall point is, B&W is one ink or color and white, a duotone is two inks or colors and white. |
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11/05/2007 03:53:52 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A B&W is not a duotone, it's a monotone, regardless of the challenge description. |
Technically, a Sepia image is also a monotone image :-) The description REALLY sux big-time...
R.
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