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09/07/2007 03:05:06 PM · #1 |
I did a photo shoot a little over a month ago for a belly dance tribe. The tribe consisted of 11 people, and after speaking with the lady that sat it up, I came up with a price list fair to everyone’s budget. I charged $100 sitting fee (which was split among the 11 people) and sat up print/package prices. I charged $45 per 8x10 print, $30 per 5x7 and $15 per 4x6. I also gave them the option to purchase their post-edited photos for web use only on a CD for $15.
It wasn’t until after they saw the quality of my work that a few people came forward wanting to use the images for business cards, fliers, calendars and so on. From what I was told, they would make no profit off of the things they make – they’re for personal use only.
Since this wasn’t discussed beforehand, I never sat a price range for use other than web and the prints they bought from me and it was never in a contract. A few girls have wanted to have the un-edited photos on the CD, which I am no way going to do. I explained that being a digital photographer, only half of my job is the shoot, while the other half is editing. I spent over a month editing around 150 photos for everyone, and now they are coming up with other ideas for the images.
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around pricing for this, since this is the first time it has ever come up for me. I told them that they could purchase a high-resolution photo for $15 per image to be put on a CD – but is this fair? Also, if I limit their use to it (only used for non-profit ideas and web use and certain types of prints), how will I know if they will do this? Also, giving them the high res photos lets them print them as many times as they want without coming back to me for prints. Sure, in today’s time, there isn’t much use for an actual print – but how do I make my money? I feel like the ones that are wanting more and more want it for the original price (I charged the sitting fee + the minimum package purchase which was $45 for an 8x10, bringing the total to $55 per person – and if they wanted to upgrade their package, they paid the rest when I gave them their prints).
I was just curious as to how you keep your actual photos in check and trust people with high-res files. I am looking at it to get my name out there and have a chance to earn more business, but at the same time it’s a lot of work for me and I want to make sure I get what I deserve all while being fair to those whom want to use my photos for other reasons. In the end I’m making close to $1,000 for a months worth of editing (I’d say about 40 hours total) and a 4 hour photo shoot – but if my photos are out there on file for use for whatever, whenever – I could be losing money in the future. How do you make up for that?
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09/07/2007 03:24:07 PM · #2 |
Did you have a contract that spills out terms of use and pricing for use?
It's up to you what to do from here, since there doesn't seem like any clear guidelines were setup. You might want to treat the new inquires as separate business use/proposal. If you question the price for negatives/CDs just make it high. Since there isn't a good way to limit use I would say at least $250 or more for any full rez stuff on CD. Set a price where if they pay it, you really don't care what they do with the image. Maybe that price is for a $1000. It's up to you. Additional prints of course should be whatever your current rate is.
Me personally, since I am not a pro I would just give them the CD for free, heck even the RAW images if they wanted. But I'm not in the business for selling. Good luck to you.
Message edited by author 2007-09-07 15:25:28. |
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09/07/2007 03:24:24 PM · #3 |
I've not got any experience of this, but reading round DPC and common sense would suggest that once you give away your Hi-Res files, they can do what they want with them. If you don't ever find out, they win. If you do find out, it would be up to you to persue and prove they broke the licensing agreement.
If you are giving away hi-res, make it worth your while by hiking up the price. This may mean allowing them to use the image for promotional material etc, but you will be better of in the short term and will not have to worry about them "Possibly" breaking any agreement, as it sounds like they may very well do that. |
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09/07/2007 03:29:41 PM · #4 |
I personally think for what you are looking to do, you are over thinking this. You are just starting out, there is no need to worry about if they will print more or not come back and ask etc. etc. Your focus should be on producing results for this client that 1. blows away their expectations, and 2. gets them a good price. They need to come away feeling like they scored the deal of a lifetime. You want more work from this? Make them happy and they will pass your name on.
You will not be able to charge what you are worth yet. Your portfolio looks nice, but you have no reputation, very few referalls and there is no "buzz" about you as a photog so you won't get premium prices. Everyone has to start somewhere.
If you nickel and dime this client, although you are entitled to do so, I think it will turn them off and they will think working with you is difficult. I would sell them a high res CD and some prints and be done. 1. You don't want to be responsible for archiving this stuff so they can buy from you in the future and 2. lingering work just makes life difficult, put your energy into finding more clients and improving your skills/equipment.
As for editing... 40 hours on 150 photos is alot. You are probably being very meticulous which is good, but you may be bordering on overkill. Try to work out a workflow that allows you to edit faster, it may be something as simple as how you organize the original files.
I don't know if you did or not, but a contract is your best friend. Contracts protect everyone and you can create the contract. If they don't sign you don't shoot. Contract also explains the scale and scope of the project so they can't start adding stuff they want thinking it falls under the "sitting fee." Example.. $100 for a sitting fee of 3 hours. Any additional time or locations for shooting will be $50/hour.
Good luck and try to drum up some other business from them, they probably know other dance groups.
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09/07/2007 03:33:41 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
I personally think for what you are looking to do, you are over thinking this. You are just starting out, there is no need to worry about if they will print more or not come back and ask etc. etc. Your focus should be on producing results for this client that 1. blows away their expectations, and 2. gets them a good price. They need to come away feeling like they scored the deal of a lifetime. You want more work from this? Make them happy and they will pass your name on. |
Well put - I totally agree... |
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09/07/2007 06:35:43 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
I personally think for what you are looking to do, you are over thinking this. You are just starting out, there is no need to worry about if they will print more or not come back and ask etc. etc. Your focus should be on producing results for this client that 1. blows away their expectations, and 2. gets them a good price. They need to come away feeling like they scored the deal of a lifetime. You want more work from this? Make them happy and they will pass your name on. |
This is good, but then when the next people come along it will be, "they told me you gave them hi res finished images (for dirt) and I want the same deal." Of course you can always refuse or say prices have changed. It seems to be a delicate balance, that you can start tilting your way the more business you get from word of mouth.
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09/07/2007 06:41:02 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
I personally think for what you are looking to do, you are over thinking this. You are just starting out, there is no need to worry about if they will print more or not come back and ask etc. etc. Your focus should be on producing results for this client that 1. blows away their expectations, and 2. gets them a good price. They need to come away feeling like they scored the deal of a lifetime. You want more work from this? Make them happy and they will pass your name on. |
If you do that, just make sure you tell them you are giving them a deal and what your normal rate is for this type of thing. Be firm and let them know you won't give this rate to anyone else. They are special. :) Good luck!! |
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09/07/2007 07:36:23 PM · #8 |
I never told anyone they were getting a deal. This problem of people thinking they are going to get a certain price is non existant. I started booking weddings at $600. I have gotten referals and told them it was $1200. No problem because I tell them the truth. I say that at the time $600 was my rate, now however I have other people requesting my time for the same date so the price is $1200. Its supply and demand and everyone understands that.
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09/08/2007 01:40:20 AM · #9 |
Your pricing is all whacked. Pricing for photography is pretty standardized and it's that way for a reason - it works and is profitable. Go with the flow on this and things will be smoother and more profitable for you.
Your prices for prints is HIGH. Quite high. Perhaps in your area it's normal, not sure. Around here that's high.
Different types of shoots get different prices for prints too - pay me $2000 to shoot a wedding and you get a lower price for an 8x10 than an alacarte family portrait. Events (baseball, racing, santa, etc) and schools are cheaper - $12 to $15 for an 8x10 is common and I've seen less quite often.
Want the hi-res file? Try $30 or $40. The file is always more. Price it at what you want your average per person to be - because they'll buy the file and no prints - they can get an 8x10 at walmart for $2 and know it. Or online at any of 100 labs that don't ask about copyright.
A corporate headshot around here goes for $150-$200 (to an established studio) - that is in reality the sitting, editing and a hi-res file with no restrictions. Biz cards or newletters, corp reports or the newspaper - it's all in there.
How much editing did you do? Get it right in the camera and there is no editing needed - THAT"S how you make your money. And the first time you do something expect it to take longer and cost you more than you had planned. |
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