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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> Company Wants My Photograph
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 08/03/2007 03:33:58 AM · #1
I got a request on one of the photographs in my pbase photo gallery for the right to use one of my photos for the cover of a Denver Metro Street Guide from a company called Mapsco. I looked them up and they are legit and based in Dallas. I am pretty excited. They said they found the photo doing a search and they need to go to the printers in just a couple weeks. Sounds like they are not offering money (I have inquired about that in my reply email- not soon enough for a responce yet) but they do it will include full credit and a link to my gallery if I want. I think it is a great opportunity and exposure. Anybody have any experience with them or any similar experience?

Update: Just a bit more research shows that they sell for over $30 each and come out once a year. A link to the present version of their Denver guide: //www.mapsco.com/detail.aspx?ID=2095

The photo in question:


The page in my gallery is here:
//www.pbase.com/image/81801406
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Message edited by author 2007-08-03 03:43:40.
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 08/03/2007 03:42:04 AM · #2
Yeah they are definitely legit. I've got several Mapsco map books. Good luck. That would be great exposure and a nice credit to have.

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 03:43:10.
 08/03/2007 04:51:33 AM · #3
They make money...why shouldn't you?
 08/03/2007 05:01:21 AM · #4
Originally posted by ericwoo:
They make money...why shouldn't you?


The exposure may have value of its own - advertising costs money, so if this could operate in the nature of advertising, you are effectively receiving consideration for your valuable content.
 08/03/2007 06:32:56 AM · #5
I'd bump this to someone like idnic. She should have some good suggestions for you.
 08/03/2007 06:42:35 AM · #6
Whats a couple of hundred dollars when you are potentially getting nation wide exposure.
that kind of publicity and possible traffic on your web site can and more them likely will bring in a lot more money and credit. If they pay you GREAT if not your still up big time.

good luck and congratulations.

scwalsh
 08/03/2007 07:05:52 AM · #7
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
They make money...why shouldn't you?


The exposure may have value of its own - advertising costs money, so if this could operate in the nature of advertising, you are effectively receiving consideration for your valuable content.


Which, if I remember rightly, was exactly the attitude Skip took when he agreed to one of his photographs appearing on the fron t cover of his regional phone book. Given that the credit and link to your website is easily visible, and not hidden in the 'small print', I would have thought the exposure has the potential of being extremely valuable.
 08/03/2007 07:40:08 AM · #8
First - Congratulations! Very cool to get published and have work that is being recognized.

Now let me play devil's advocate...

Originally posted by JeffryZ:
I got a request on one of the photographs in my pbase photo gallery for the right to use one of my photos ...

Great! Your gallery worked. Someone likes one of your photos and wants to use it commercially.

Originally posted by JeffryZ:
... it will include full credit and a link to my gallery if I want. I think it is a great opportunity and exposure. ...

Exposure for what? To bring in potential clients/business? Your gallery just worked and you're willing to accept credit in the form of your name and a link back to your gallery?!

So what happens the next time someone contacts you and says the same thing? "We saw your photo at ... and would like to use it for ..."

At what point do you draw the line and say "I'm glad you like it, what's your standard usage fee" (or some other statement that says you're happy to sell the rights/etc...)?
 08/03/2007 09:11:31 AM · #9
way cool!

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Now let me play devil's advocate...

Originally posted by JeffryZ:
... it will include full credit and a link to my gallery if I want. I think it is a great opportunity and exposure. ...

Exposure for what? To bring in potential clients/business? Your gallery just worked and you're willing to accept credit in the form of your name and a link back to your gallery?!

absolutely. ad rates can run from $50 to $5000. if you have a front cover with your name and url without having to pay, you are already ahead.

Originally posted by glad2badad:
So what happens the next time someone contacts you and says the same thing? "We saw your photo at ... and would like to use it for ..."

it all depends on what they are going to use it for. if somebody wants to use an image and it's hardly ever going to be seen, charge a few bucks. but, if it's going to get maximum exposure (as opposed to collecting digital dust), then weigh out the cost/benefit of the situation.

Originally posted by glad2badad:
At what point do you draw the line and say "I'm glad you like it, what's your standard usage fee" (or some other statement that says you're happy to sell the rights/etc...)?

you draw the line at the potential return. there's a huge difference between something to be used on a hardly-hit website and something where the print run runs way up in the 1000s (or over a million).

it also depends on what you're after. with something like this, i don't think it matters if you are a hobbyist, semi-pro, or a full-time pro; i'd ask for money and take whatever i could get, even if it was nothing. sure, 'they' have money and are making money, and if you can get some--great! on the other hand, there are two things to consider:

1) bragging rights. large scale is cool. and, if you push too hard and make yourself difficult to work with, they'll just as easily find another pretty picture from someone less concerned about getting a few nickles for their shot.

2) if you are in photography for money, you need to find other ways to capitalize on this type of exposure. write a press release and let everyone know you about your recognition. touch base with your customers and prospects and let them know about it. and, if you make yourself easy to work with, the publisher could possibly have paid assignments for you...
 08/03/2007 09:17:04 AM · #10
The exposure alone is worth far more than they would pay you for the image.

Congratulations.
 08/03/2007 09:22:22 AM · #11
Then they expect it from the next guy, and the next one and the next one, and pretty soon, we all have to get real jobs again. That's my outlook on it.

Originally posted by smbulger:
The exposure alone is worth far more than they would pay you for the image.

Congratulations.

08/03/2007 09:23:10 AM · #12
Originally posted by Skip:
way cool!

I figured you'd pop in on this one sooner or later. :P

Glad you did as your business perspective is always enlightening and encouraging.

I guess my response was from more of a casual photography enthusiast that's makes a nickel or two and once in awhile a quarter comes along. :D
 08/03/2007 09:29:04 AM · #13
Originally posted by glad2badad:
my response was from more of a casual photography enthusiast that's makes a nickel or two and once in awhile a quarter comes along. :D

and there's nothing wrong with asking, especially when you have nothing to lose. if that's the case, by all means, push as far as you can.

Originally posted by ericwoo:
Then they expect [free images] from the next guy, and the next one and the next one, and pretty soon, we all have to get real jobs again. That's my outlook on it.

again, it all depends on the situation. digital has completely changed this aspect of 'print usage'. 15 years ago, the phonebook companies would pay incredible day rates (i've heard as much as $10,000 a day) to pros to shoot just the covers. now, they can take their pick of good enough images for free (or near-dirt). so, you have to decide whether or not the exposure is worth it. for me, it is. i've already gotten calls from verizon to do paid assignments, just because i wasn't pushy about getting paid to have a photo on the cover of 1.1 million phonebooks...

;-)
 08/03/2007 09:52:16 AM · #14
The cheap screws at Mapsco. Heck they sell millions of copies, every taxi driver, real estate agent, repo people, fedex, UPS, and police officer has at least one. I'm amazed at how commercial companies want to use free work to make there profit. Yes people will see your photo on the cover but in reality no one looks to see who took it, some look to see what it is. The cover on the map book is very important, it is what makes the buyer see the book and standout on the shelf. I would not give it to them, they know the value and it's several hundred minimum. Ask them what they would be willing to pay. If you don't like it pass up on the deal. The visibility is all for them and minimal to you. The only people who know it was yours will be the ones you tell about it. Do you think they got all the maps inside the book for free?
.
The news media is getting too cheap. Just look at CNN after the bridge collapse. Everytime they talk about it they ask the public to send them free photos and videos. My suggestion, if you are doing it for a hobby with no intent in paying for your time and gear give it to them. If you plan on making money or at least paying for your time and equipment then it's worth several hundred minimum. Heck the front cover of a Mapsco edition is worth well over a thousand bucks.
.
Best of luck!
 08/03/2007 09:52:21 AM · #15
Don't mean to rain on your parade...but do you need a property release to sell this image?

Here's a link to the Q & A page from the American Society of Media Photographers. Please see "How do I know when I need a property release?"

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 09:53:05.
 08/03/2007 09:58:20 AM · #16
Originally posted by KaDi:
Don't mean to rain on your parade...but do you need a property release to sell this image?

I kind of wondered about that also...

The burden is on the seller (photographer) or publisher (Mapsco)? I think it's on the photographer, isn't it?
 08/03/2007 10:03:43 AM · #17
Originally posted by KaDi:
Don't mean to rain on your parade...but do you need a property release to sell this image?

Here's a link to the Q & A page from the American Society of Media Photographers. Please see "How do I know when I need a property release?"

no, you do not need a property release to sell/license the photo. if you have one, then you can pass it along to your licensee. however, if you don't, it will be up to the publisher to deal with the issue (it is your responsibility to inform your licensee as to whether or not the image has a release).

---

don, as much as your arguments are valid, that horse is out of the barn; times have changed. you say 'no', and the opportunity's gone. you say 'yes', and you have something to use as best you can. for me, it's not that i expect people to call me up just because of the cover shot. but, when people call me up and i can point that out to them, well, that's worth a lot.
 08/03/2007 10:07:02 AM · #18
Originally posted by Skip:
... have a photo on the cover of 1.1 million phonebooks...

;-)

Skip - What photo did they use?
 08/03/2007 10:17:07 AM · #19
Originally posted by Skip:
no, you do not need a property release to sell/license the photo. if you have one, then you can pass it along to your licensee. however, if you don't, it will be up to the publisher to deal with the issue (it is your responsibility to inform your licensee as to whether or not the image has a release).


Thanks for the clarification, Skip, I've often wondered about how this works.
 08/03/2007 10:41:14 AM · #20
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Then they expect it from the next guy, and the next one and the next one, and pretty soon, we all have to get real jobs again. That's my outlook on it.


The companies that pay, will pay. The companies that don't pay, won't pay, because there will always be someone to give them the image for the publicity.

Hollywood movies with 50 million dollar budgets don't pay for artwork on their sets unless they want something by a specific artist of a specific piece. usually, they will approach artists for donated work in exchange for screen credit.
 08/03/2007 01:10:09 PM · #21
Wow! Lots of responces! To update with the latest, I received a reply from the company and they have offered me some money- I will not say how much. At this point I am an amateur hobbyist just happy to share my images and happy if I get any money from it. I have not sold any images to anybody yet (I did have a Kodak Picture of the Day once) and have some prints in local tourist shops but so far no sales there (the shops purchased the prints from me but they have not sold any- if they do not, then they won't buy more from me of course). So I think I am excited about the deal at this time.

I do not know if they would offer more if I tried to ask or if they would just find another photographer who would do it for free. I hope that I am also not undercutting another photographer trying to make money off their shots, but there is no way for me to know that and it will not effect my decision. Thanks for the feedback and I will update when I get more information. Right now I need to get to work on resizing the image for them.
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 08/05/2007 10:46:48 PM · #22
I'm getting in on this late, but do you think it is possible that they heard about your pBase portfolio by seeing some of the other work you have already out. Asking for some amount of money shows that you value your work. I wouldn't try to wring them for every cent but asking for something shows you care about providing a quality product.

An example, I used to operate a Computer Support business. When I started out I was charging 35/hr. What I found is that I could not have people take me seriously unless I was asking at least 50/hr. I was still telling them the same information, just they valued it more because I was charging more. No, this still doesn't make complete sense to me, but I had more business when I charged $50 an hour too.
 08/06/2007 12:52:00 AM · #23
it's good advertising to get your name "known" and it easy to do that by trading publishing rights for photo credit. i did that many times when i was starting out. then i moved up to charging the standard stock fee for photos. now i am paid a substantial day rate plus all expenses for a photo shoot. it takes time and it takes getting your name out there. i think if it's a photo you already have in your portfolio, it can't hurt to let them publish it without charge as long as they give you full credit.
08/06/2007 01:14:54 AM · #24
Yes, would be the publisher's responsibility to make sure there is a property release. So, no worries about that.

As far as giving them the photo: it's definitely a good way to get some advertising and recognition, but that is only as good as you are prepared to use it. Is your web site up to snuff? Are you prepared to have your name "out there"? If not, you are probably better off just asking for money.
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