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07/26/2007 07:08:38 PM · #1 |
I have been asked by a club to cover their corporate functions as they need a photog. and as someone who has never been into taking pictures of people in general - I'm worried.
I'm using a canon 300d, thinking of upgrading but for the meantime:
1) what lens would you recomend?
2) Should I go with a standard canon 430 flash?
3) New tripod necessity?
4) any other eqipment which I may need? Its not challenging work, I could use a point and shoot but I want to make sure I am professional and can provide a quality service, even if it is basic
thanks guys |
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07/26/2007 07:14:13 PM · #2 |
One last thing, im thinking of getting either one of these:
Tamron Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF Macro Autofocus Lens for Canon EOS
OR
Sigma Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DG Macro IF Autofocus Lens for Canon EOS |
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07/26/2007 08:56:36 PM · #3 |
i'd be worried, too!
my advice? forget this. it's not just a matter of equipment--it's also a matter of experience, competence, and attitude. why would you even consider taking a job that requires you doing something you've never really been into? and, contrary to your perception, it *is* challenging work, if you want to do it well, let alone professionally. if you're not really *into* it, the results are going to speak for themselves, regardless of the equipment you use... |
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07/26/2007 09:32:25 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Gareth S.:
One last thing, im thinking of getting either one of these: |
Neither, both are way too slow for your needs. I'd suggest something wider (doesn't need to exceed 70mm on the long end) and faster.
I'd have to agree with Skip. You may want to research this quite a bit more before doing it.
Message edited by author 2007-07-26 21:32:49.
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07/26/2007 11:22:10 PM · #5 |
You would need to know how many people in each pic before you can answer.... although both lenses you mention are not likely the answer.
If it's single head-shots outside then that's one thing but if it's 20 people at a time in a dark room that is quite another :-). The equipment would need to be different.
Make sure you don't under-estimate it... Getting good clean portraits is not as easy as it might appear..... |
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07/27/2007 12:50:37 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Skip:
i'd be worried, too!
my advice? forget this. it's not just a matter of equipment--it's also a matter of experience, competence, and attitude. why would you even consider taking a job that requires you doing something you've never really been into? and, contrary to your perception, it *is* challenging work, if you want to do it well, let alone professionally. if you're not really *into* it, the results are going to speak for themselves, regardless of the equipment you use... |
I agree.
That may not be the case, but I also think you're seriously underestimating the challenge in such work.
FWIW - I'd get the Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS, the 70-200f2.8IS and the 580EX flash with some kind of diffuser (Lightsphere, Lumiquest etc.) also, you should probably consider a 2nd body. I'd buy a 30D and keep the 300D as a backup and replace it with another 30D shortly. |
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07/27/2007 06:30:43 AM · #7 |
Thanks a bunch guys, maybe I am underestimating this, although its very simple stuff they want me to do, its just shots of the people who attend their functions?
I have worked there for a while and I've seen about 15-20 different guys coming in and maybe it is just this unique situation but I really do doubt the difficulty of it all.
I forgot to say I think im upgrading to the 5D anyway...This morning I spoke to a guy who is going to let me work for him as his second shooter so I can learn and gain some experience.
Again my Question still wasn't answered. Im going ot be taking shots of groups of maybe 2-10 and I dont know what lens I should get?? |
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07/27/2007 06:41:18 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Gareth S.:
Again my Question still wasn't answered. Im going ot be taking shots of groups of maybe 2-10 and I dont know what lens I should get?? |
Some suggestions were made, though I agree that the 28-300mm options you listed may not be good enough, unless you are going to be using a couple of flashes set up with brollys or something?
I have the Tamron 28 - 300mm. I am really impressed with this lens when out doors but find it too slow indoors and I am forced to use a flash all of the time.
You would probably be looking at a Cannon 24-70mm F2.8L, or then next best (Cheaper!) option would be the Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 SP AF Xr Di II. Gets rave reviews and is rated as almost as good as the Canon L glass. |
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07/27/2007 07:04:39 AM · #9 |
thanks pix, thats is really helpfull, maybe Ill get the cheaper one while im still helping out and when im out on my own then spend some more on quality equipment.
you rock.... |
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07/27/2007 08:32:34 AM · #10 |
first, as far as equipment goes, i use a Canon 24-70mm F2.8L for this type of work. it is fast, sharp, and does not distort. it works nicely in low-light situations, as well. i also use a Canon 580ex with a Gary Fong PJ Lightsphere II.
as far as doing the job, i work the room(s), looking for candid moments. maybe 15% of what i deliver are posed shots, where people in a group all turn to 'smile at the camera'. my 24-70 also takes excellent group shots.
now, for some rant...
i'll never understand this curious dynamic that makes people assume that just because someone has a camera that the camera-owning-person 1) is capable of shooting any and every thing, from products to portraits to sports to architecture to events, 2) enjoys shooting any and every thing.
i'll also never understand what it is that makes any camera-owning-person feel compelled and obligated to say "yes, i'll do that" when they are asked by a non-camera-operating-person to perform some type of photographic service, especially something they've never done before, especially when it involves money, especially when it involves delivering results.
i can understand the desire to try something new, the thrill of being asked to do something, the tingle that comes with the thought of making some money.
what i can't understand is the compunction to do this without any plans. is it just that it seems so simple, that all you have to do is point and shoot, that anybody--even uncle bob-can do it? or is it that since you are a camera-owning-person, you have to prove that you actually can do something anything with it?
why not just go sky-diving without any lessons? just hook-up-and-jump?
who knows? maybe you get lucky, and whatever they wanted you to do is not that big a deal and you make them happy and you get paid. that would be cool. that would really beat punching a hole in the ground...
[/rant] |
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07/27/2007 08:49:27 AM · #11 |
The 24-70mm f/2.8 is the most flexible option. Add a 50mm f/1.4 or the 85mm f/1.8.
They all work nicely with either 300D or the 5D. A 580EX (mark II is better) will complete your needs. Perhaps a portable stand for flash and umbrella.
And, heck, one has to start somewhere. If you never jump in and try, you'll never know. What's the worst that can happen? Take a point and shoot as an insurance policy if you like.
Message edited by author 2007-07-27 08:50:30. |
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07/27/2007 09:03:37 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by pineapple:
And, heck, one has to start somewhere. If you never jump in and try, you'll never know. What's the worst that can happen? Take a point and shoot as an insurance policy if you like. |
like i said, why not just take up sky-diving without any prior instruction? it's not a matter of not having a place to start, it's a matter of having a plan for starting, a plan that would hopefully include some kind of reality checklist as to what one is capable of doing and then some details about how to handle acquiring the skills and equipment necessary to do the things one is not quite ready for.
my whole rail is against this notion that just because you own a camera you are automatically ready to jump-in-and-try; it just means you own a camera.
"what's the worst that could happen?" you commit to doing something that people are counting on, you aren't able to deliver, and you not only don't get paid, you get sued for the amount of money it takes to recreate what you missed. not likely here, but, all the same, a possibility in many situations.
lastly, i guess it's the point-and-shoot insurance mentality that drives this whole notion that anybody can do it. might as well be giving cameras to monkeys... |
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07/27/2007 09:41:38 AM · #13 |
I'm with Skip on this. I photographed a lot of parties and events while being a guest before even considering being 2nd photographer at the event. During my learing time I made a LOT of mistakes that I learned from.
Make sure YOU are ready, not just your gear.
Nick
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07/27/2007 09:44:47 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Skip:
rant...
is it just that it seems so simple, that all you have to do is point and shoot, that anybody--even uncle bob-can do it? [/rant] |
Is that no-good SOB Uncle Bob shooting other events now too? I thought he was content to screw up weddings. |
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08/01/2007 07:22:22 AM · #15 |
Maybe I didn't make my intentions clear, these arent serious corporate functions, the clinets bring their own photographers. This is snapshots for the club I work at.
Don't know why professional Photogs always get so angry and condescending when a novice wants to learn, especially on online forums. The pro photogs in South Africa at least want to help young people learn about photography and offer assistance...
Skip, I do agree that people who dont know what they are doing should not just accept any offer they get, but the rant in unnecessary, im simply asking for advice because I know people on this site, know what they are doing and are (mostly) professional, if not courteous.
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08/01/2007 03:41:28 PM · #16 |
Your camera is fine, either the 300 or the 5D. If its low key and you can get away with saying my equipment stopped working so I need to leave than don't worry about backup gear.
Lenses. Do not buy cheap stuff and upgrade later. All you are doing is making your upgrade more expensive. there are cheaper alternatives to L series lenses. Go with the Canon primes, get a 28, 50, and an 85mm all f1.8. You could get all three for less than the 24-70 f2.8L. You will need to change lenses often but hey what can you do. Stay clear of Sigma and Tamron. I personally don't care for the 3rd party lenses and I think their quality is quite terrible. The canon flash is fine, just get a diffuser or something similar or bounce it off the ceiling.
----
As for the rant part of this thread. I am really on both sides if that makes any sense. I agree that people shouldn't just jump into photo gigs and I think that you should just go for it.
I booked my first 2 weddings w/o a price guide, proper equipment, any wedding experience whatsoever. My all time favorite photography line I actually used on a client was, "by the time your wedding rolls around, I will have shot 1 wedding." That was the first wedding I was at since I was 15. I got flamed in the forums just like everyone else who has done that.
I knew that when the time came I would be ready and if I wasn't and my results sucked, I would have just started my business and put myself out of business all on the same gig. It went great, I was prepared and I got a stellar recommendation from the couple which helped me land other gigs. My advice is take any gig you want prepared or not, the results will demonstrate one or the other and you will either perpetuate your business in a good way or hit a major obstacle.
I think there is a huge difference between people who book a gig they have no idea how to handle and essentially train for it and those who book a gig they have no idea how to handle and show up having no idea how to handle it.
Good luck.
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08/01/2007 04:37:00 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
Stay clear of Sigma and Tamron. I personally don't care for the 3rd party lenses and I think their quality is quite terrible. |
That's a pretty sweeping statement - sure, their entry level stuff is poor but then so is Canon's entry level stuff. Sigma, at least, has a pretty solid (and justified) reputation for it's pro lenses. |
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08/01/2007 04:41:04 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
Stay clear of Sigma and Tamron. I personally don't care for the 3rd party lenses and I think their quality is quite terrible. |
You're entitled to your opinion, but this is just bad advice.
Sigma, Tamron and all lens manufacturers, including Nikon and Canon, make some real clunkers, but they also make some very capable optics too. |
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08/01/2007 05:33:22 PM · #19 |
Hi there!
I do a lot ot assignements for a magazine to cover club parties and that kind of stuff.
Let me share my experience.
REgarding the lenses: get the fastest prime you can get, and wider too. If you're shooting low light f2.8 won't do the job. 80% of the photos I present to publish are taken with my sigma 30mm f1.4. But keep in mind that a 30mm in your camera will be more like a 50mm, witch is not very wide if you're shooting in a crowded club. So I'm looking foward to buy the 20mm f1.8 know.
Regarding shooting conditions: Buy a good flash, and master it. You'll probably be shooting a lot of times with f1.8 1/15sec with slow sinc to the back curtain.
Practice.
If you go to my smugmug (www.nuno.smugmug.com) you have a galery called "festas da noite", meaning, night parties and you can see the kind of photos I'm talking about. |
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08/01/2007 05:57:14 PM · #20 |
Personally, I like to snipe from the sidelines with my 7-200 at f2.8 and the ISO whacked up to 1600. Avoiding blur is far more important than avoiding noise/grain. 580EX is great bounced.
Message edited by author 2007-08-01 17:57:36.
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08/01/2007 09:42:07 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Gareth S.:
Maybe I didn't make my intentions clear, these arent serious corporate functions, the clinets bring their own photographers. This is snapshots for the club I work at. |
no, you did not make that clear. there is a huge difference between shooting a 'corporate function' and 'taking snapshots'.
Originally posted by Gareth S.:
Don't know why professional Photogs always get so angry and condescending when a novice wants to learn, especially on online forums. The pro photogs in South Africa at least want to help young people learn about photography and offer assistance... |
i would hardly call my responses 'angry and condescending', but if you did, my apologies.
Originally posted by Gareth S.:
Skip, I do agree that people who dont know what they are doing should not just accept any offer they get, but the rant in unnecessary, im simply asking for advice because I know people on this site, know what they are doing and are (mostly) professional, if not courteous. |
well, maybe i shouldn't have called it 'rant'; maybe i should have called it 'head-scratching'. all the same, if you had put it out there that somebody wanted you to shoot a bunch of snapshots of people in a clubhouse, i probably wouldn't have even posted a response. but, when you put it in the 'business of photography' section and you put it out there like it's professional gig, it hits my radar. i'm always curious as to 1) why buyers are so willing to take a risk (unless they don't care about the results), and 2) why camera owner feel compelled to throw themselves into these situations (unless these situations really aren't that big a deal). it's not that i want to rain on your parade--it's more that if you want to work professionally, you can't go about it willy-nilly. that's the only point i've been hammering. believe me, it's not condescencion, anger, scorn, or contempt; it's bemusement that someone would jump into a 'professional' situation without any prior planning for it. again, it's the difference in how you lay it out: are you heading out to 'take some snaps' or are you covering a 'corporate event'...
whatever, good luck.
;-) |
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08/01/2007 11:34:08 PM · #22 |
I respect you, Skip, for the advice you offer here on the business of photography and for earning a living doing it. But I bet you made a few mistakes and learned from them along the road. I am probably poking fun at you if I say that professionals (in all trades) tend to hold newcomers back by making the subject appear difficult. Pro's of course have a territory to protect. But, as said, I am poking fun perhaps. A well thought out plan by the shooter can make this work, IMO. Add in your advice as an insurance policy....
Message edited by author 2007-08-01 23:34:51. |
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08/02/2007 06:39:31 AM · #23 |
of course i've made mistakes--i still do. the point i would hope to get across is something my dad taught me in my early, early teens:
"those who fail to plan, plan to fail."
the odds of the 'accidental professional' succeeding in the long run are astronomical. personally, i'd want to improve my odds. it has nothing to do with turf-protection or making mountains out of molehills. it's all about how you approach anything you do. i'll give gareth points for seeking advice, and would hope this work could lead to bigger and better things. all the same, it's going to require a bit more than going out on a lark just because someone asks you to shoot something.
;-) |
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08/02/2007 09:28:27 AM · #24 |
when I bashed Sigma and other 3rd party lenses, I wasn't talking about their entry level clunkers. Ive owned 1 clunker, the Sigma 70-300 APO macro and sold it quickly. I now have the 24-70 f2.8, that is on their high end of lenses and I think it sucks. f2.8 is essentially unuseable and the color is bad. Great lens at f8+, but thats not why I bought it. Also, the worst part of 3rd party lenses is the resell price. You cannot resell a Sigma to anywhere near the original price, but you can resell a Canon L to within about 90% of the original price. This is why I am still stuck with that 24-70, it cost around $500 and I can't get close to that.
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08/02/2007 10:39:05 AM · #25 |
So you wrote off the whole of Sigma and Tamron off the back of one bad sample?
Well heck, on that basis Canon L glass is useless - I went through about 4 copies of the 70-200 f4 trying to get one to focus right and gave up. That doesn't mean I write off the entire manufacturer though... |
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