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12/17/2003 09:55:51 AM · #1 |
Many of us would like to understand why photos which score a high average have so many one's and two's. So I thought I would make it into a challenge.
Lets start with Simplicity. Look back at any photos you gave a 1 or 2. Did it score an average of 5 or more?
If yes, you have a candidate for discussion. Now, if you would please introspect, be frank, and try to let us know what you were thinking when you scored it? If you are not willing to identify the photo you scored, it will be harder, so please put a link to it here.
I ask all that participate in this thread not to argue your points, or verbally attack you, or even respond (unless you want us to). We just want to hear what you were thinking at the time.
Thanks in advance!
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12/17/2003 09:59:36 AM · #2 |
I really dont know: my only two photos scored many 1's and I do not feel they deserved them. But, honestly: should I really mind? I also probably got many undeservable 10's...
Paolo S. |
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12/17/2003 09:59:53 AM · #3 |
I've not given a 1 or 2 in any of the recent challenges. I'm trying to think if I've given any,, it will take some time to figure that out!
I've recieved plenty though.
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12/17/2003 10:05:42 AM · #4 |
Most of the high scorers would not get a low score from me. One of the last pictures that I gave a score too was:
Message edited by author 2003-12-17 10:05:56.
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12/17/2003 10:13:33 AM · #5 |
| I'd be interested to know about this too - I almost never give a 1 or 2, even to shots that I consider well beneath the quality of my own, yet I got a host of 1s and 2s in the simplicity challenge. |
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12/17/2003 10:15:54 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by kaycee:
I'd be interested to know about this too - I almost never give a 1 or 2, even to shots that I consider well beneath the quality of my own, yet I got a host of 1s and 2s in the simplicity challenge. |
Gave you a "5". Composition was busy, but the picture itself was not bad so the "5".
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12/17/2003 10:20:12 AM · #7 |
Look at the ribbon winners for the week.
Member challenge almost no 1's,2's,or 3's. User challenge a few 1's,2's, and 3's buy still more then the member challenges.
The member challenges would get the more honest scores.
Pretty sure I'm getting 1's in the "car challenge" but still no comments telling me why my photo sucks.
Message edited by author 2003-12-17 10:42:46.
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12/17/2003 11:57:08 AM · #8 |
I'm new here, and I'm confused about the rules. I suspect that others have similar questions, and this may explain some very low scores.
The site rules strictly limit post-shot adjustments (//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_rules.php). The original poster (from a separate thread) was unclear why this photo got low scores 
To me it has clearly been manipulated with selective desaturation. Why was this photo not just disqualified? I see that the site says to vote on images as though they do not break the rules, but I suspect many people vote down an obviously manipulated photo.
I do see that *member* challenges in December have modified rules, but Simplicity was an *open* challenge. As a new participant, I would have thought that the photo in question would be completely disqualified, and the votes wouldn't be relevant. BTW, there's an entry in the "vehicles" challenge of a freeway where everything except two cars has been desaturated. I like the photo, but again it seems to me to be obviously in violation of the rules.
Perhaps I'm not quite understanding how the challenges work yet...
Message edited by author 2003-12-17 11:59:14. |
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12/17/2003 12:04:10 PM · #9 |
1
Snapshot and photographic integrity is very weak.
2
Nothing simplistic about this image to me. Not a particularly interesting image either.
2
Poor image quality and not particularly inspiring in any way.
2
Poor image quality and I coulnd't see whatever was being shown.
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12/17/2003 12:05:56 PM · #10 |
saalwaecter,
See thread. There are ways to desatuarate without selecting a particular item if you shoot it correctly.
Remember to give a photo a score as if nothing was wrong and ask for a DQ (Disqualification) if the picture is in violation of the rules then the scores will be removed. If the picture is not in violation then the score you gave stays as all scores it was given.
Message edited by author 2003-12-17 12:08:20.
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12/17/2003 01:02:59 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by faidoi:
The member challenges would get the more honest scores.
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Why? Does paying $25 somehow infer the trait of honesty on members?
I'd agree that the average vote in a members challenge is higher (kinder?) but I'm not convinced that it's just a straightforward case of all votes cast being more "honest".
I'd accept that it is less likely that people who have paid to be members will "troll" vote, as it were. But that's as big an assumption as I'd be willing to make, without something to back it up with.
Is it just member-awe/ member-envy ;) to assume members vote more honestly?
:o) |
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12/17/2003 01:08:07 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by faidoi:
The member challenges would get the more honest scores.
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Why? Does paying $25 somehow infer the trait of honesty on members?
I'd agree that the average vote in a members challenge is higher (kinder?) but I'm not convinced that it's just a straightforward case of all votes cast being more "honest".
I'd accept that it is less likely that people who have paid to be members will "troll" vote, as it were. But that's as big an assumption as I'd be willing to make, without something to back it up with.
Is it just member-awe/ member-envy ;) to assume members vote more honestly?
:o) |
Maybe "honest" wasn't the right word. "Constant" might be a better one.
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12/17/2003 01:44:34 PM · #13 |
I had gave some 3 or 4. But the most low scores that I gave were to that same shots! Many people posted bad focused images to simplicity. |
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12/17/2003 01:47:09 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by saalwaechter:
I'm new here, and I'm confused about the rules. I suspect that others have similar questions, and this may explain some very low scores.
The site rules strictly limit post-shot adjustments (//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_rules.php). The original poster (from a separate thread) was unclear why this photo got low scores
To me it has clearly been manipulated with selective desaturation. Why was this photo not just disqualified? I see that the site says to vote on images as though they do not break the rules, but I suspect many people vote down an obviously manipulated photo.
I do see that *member* challenges in December have modified rules, but Simplicity was an *open* challenge. As a new participant, I would have thought that the photo in question would be completely disqualified, and the votes wouldn't be relevant. BTW, there's an entry in the "vehicles" challenge of a freeway where everything except two cars has been desaturated. I like the photo, but again it seems to me to be obviously in violation of the rules.
Perhaps I'm not quite understanding how the challenges work yet... |
If you saw some suspicious photo in disagree with challenge rules, you are free to request a DQ. |
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12/17/2003 02:35:31 PM · #15 |
Your nicer than I am. I would of gave those all 1's.
I'm just naturally very picky. A photo has to WOW! me to get a high score. I'm the same with my photos. When I go out on a shoot whether it's digital or film. If it's not at least an 8 in my mind it goes in the trash. Most of the time I only keep what I would consider a 9 or above. Evrything else is trash, because that's how a photo editor is going to see it if I send in junk. Then your name is associated with junk images and a few good ones. I would rather my name be associated with excellent images.
Remember, It's quality not quantity that will have people remember your name. Well unless you shoot stock, then it's the quantity of quality images that will make you the cash. ;D |
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12/17/2003 03:01:02 PM · #16 |
Just to refresh the original question, I was looking for people to show why they voted 1's and 2's on images which scored 5 or more overall. The 5 was arbitrary here, if you insist you can use 4, but so far, we are seeing pictures which consistently scored low being used. I don't think there's much question why when the scoring is consistent.
Again, we promise to understand it is your honest opinion, or even might have been a misunderstanding. We won't argue. We (or at least I) want to just know what the thought process and voting logic might have been.
And of course, the conversation is to ethereal unless you point to specific examples. I recommended the recently completed simplicity challenge as the base. |
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12/17/2003 03:13:36 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Just to refresh the original question, I was looking for people to show why they voted 1's and 2's on images which scored 5 or more overall. The 5 was arbitrary here, if you insist you can use 4, but so far, we are seeing pictures which consistently scored low being used. I don't think there's much question why when the scoring is consistent.
Again, we promise to understand it is your honest opinion, or even might have been a misunderstanding. We won't argue. We (or at least I) want to just know what the thought process and voting logic might have been.
And of course, the conversation is to ethereal unless you point to specific examples. I recommended the recently completed simplicity challenge as the base. |
If you are looking for an answer to why this happens, good luck. There are lots of possibilities. Some people just look at things differently. What appeals to one won't appeal to another, and vice versa. If you look at the low scoring photos, you will see a few high scores on them. If you look at the high scoring photos, you will see a few low scores on them.
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12/17/2003 03:16:42 PM · #18 |
I think we need guidelines for voting. I usually vote based on "Is this photo POSTER worthy?" "Would I frame this and put this above my mantle?" I look for 1. does this photo follow the rules. (I was told by other posters in the boards here to vote low on photos that don't follow the rules, and leave comments... not to bother DQing them because the site hardly does anything about DQs for open challenges). 2. Are the composition, lighting, clarity & color/contrast good? 3. Does the subject of the photo capture the theme? 4. The overall look and feel of the photo.
I always vote 10 for photos I'd buy or want to hang up on my wall, framed, poster-size. I vote 9 for photos almost there, but lacking something (usually the OVERALL feel). I vote down accordingly. I vote 5 for borderline photos with the right intentions (really tried hard, but failed to capture the subject or has an edge that is cut off or something). I vote 6 or 4 based on how borderline the photos are (photo quality over subject gets a 6, subject over photo quality gets a 4). I vote 3 for photos with the subject as their goal, but have little quality (lighting, composition, color/contrast). I vote 2 for photos that hardly try (snapshots with messy backgrounds or low lighting). I vote 1 for photos you can't tell the subject or the quality (blurry, messy, confusing, no artistic form, no identifiable subject or theme, no composition, photographer's that just didn't try at all).
I am curious to know how you all vote... :)
Mirdonamy |
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12/17/2003 03:17:58 PM · #19 |
If you look at the vote distribution curves in the vast majority of images you will see that it is a nice even curve with both high and low scores on the wings.
You would expect this given the wide range of voters that participate at this site. The opinions of the voters that give a 1 is just as valid as the voters that give a 10 on the same image.
Although occasionally there are anomalous spikes in the curve this is more the exception than the rule.
Spikes of low scores do occur, but far more frequently you will find a spike up at 10 where there are more 10s given for an image than 9s.
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12/17/2003 04:12:19 PM · #20 |
I wonder about the way 'we' vote and its been covered in a multitude of threads on here. I have not done any digging but I seem to notice that when people put their vote figure down it appears to me, and I emphasise appears, that females score photos higher than males?
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12/17/2003 05:19:48 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by mirdonamy:
1. does this photo follow the rules. (I was told by other posters in the boards here to vote low on photos that don't follow the rules, and leave comments... not to bother DQing them because the site hardly does anything about DQs for open challenges). |
Always vote as if the entry was legal, and if you think it is illegal, recommend it for DQ and tell why. As far as "doing" anything, each shot is looked at and most originals are requested, if needed. And that goes for open challenges as well, though there haven't been many. Sorry, but the person who offered this advice is, well, I think, wrong.
If you mean "follow the rules" as in meeting the challenge, then yes, the advice you received is correct. We do not dq for not meeting the challenge. |
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12/17/2003 05:21:19 PM · #22 |
I really dont know: my only two photos scored many 1's and I do not feel they deserved them. But, honestly: should I really mind? I also probably got many undeservable 10's...
Paolo S
The All Alone challenge photo is gorgeous, I can't see any obvious short comings, it's quite moving and mystical. I'm scoring quite low on my own entry for Vehicles [without comments] which surprised since I feel it has alot of integrity..
I saw a comment on a quite good photograph reprimanding the photographer for the 'crazy angle' when there's nothing crazy about it, quite normal I thought while still being creative. ... some minds need to be set free. |
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