free study critique please! - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/08/2007 02:43:02 AM · #1

I really don't get my score, as usual. This, I thought was one of the better images I have taken. I hardly received any comments and I'd like to know why this was thought to be so very average.

I understand it was a large challenge with many people in it but I found my image to be up to par with the images in the low six range at least...

Thanks in advance. Outtakes will be posted soon, I'm starting to think another one of them might have done better, but this I found to be my favorite image of the bunch.

RPvanderHilst

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

05/08/2007 04:47:29 AM · #2

Let me start out to say that I didn't vote on the free study challenge (free member..), nor did I see the majority of the entries.

Apart from the fact that I think this is a nice picture and think it should've scored higher than it did, the major thing that I do not like about this image is the detail in the background. Especially the white cylinder right next to the eyes distracts me, also giving me the feeling that the model is actually looking to that (although that of course is physically untrue). I think this image would've benefited from a shallower DOF, although not necessarily a very shallow DOF. Just enough to make the background slightly blurred.

In hindsight, as this was an expert editing challenge, you might've created the blur manually in your favorite digital image processing software ;-).

Secondly, you might choose the position of the model slightly different next time to ensure that no distracting objects are positioned next to the face (if that is the main object of attention). Again, a radial gradient mask working on the background only might darken the area around his face in this image, though I think it's better to prevent this part during the shooting itself.

Nonetheless, I look forward to see more images from you, as this one is very promising.

angelfire

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

05/08/2007 09:24:20 AM · #3

I wasn't able to vote on the free study either, out of town, but I agree with RPvanderHilst. The image is a good image, however I may have only voted a 5 or 6 because the background is too busy with the cyllanders, it distracts from the subject of the photo. Hope it helps!!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/08/2007 09:48:08 AM · #4

I see what you are saying BUT that was the point. They were meant to be there otherwise I would have chosen a blank background like everyone else. I didn't just happen to shoot on a "distracting background."

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/08/2007 09:49:28 AM · #5

Very 80s `neopunk` feel to it. The lighting isn't very strong and doesnt add or subtract from the image, its functional at best. Makeup is interesting, but generally the image has little punch or life to it. I would of voted a 6. (which is on par with what you expected). As with other images in the challenge (mine imcluded), god knows why anyone gave it 3 or below..

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

05/08/2007 10:00:35 AM · #6

Other favorties from the shoot. I wish I had more the shots with the pannels in the back edited, I thought they had a really cool look and it's suprising me that there are seen as a distraction. I'm trying to explore the world as if it is more than white and black backgrounds... and hey, it is.

Comments appreciated.

As for the lighting, I have a modest flash on a chord that I could only do so much with. The ones on the stairs use natural light from a skylight although some i used my regular camera flash for fill.

dragonlady

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

05/08/2007 01:00:41 PM · #7

I liked this image with the exception of the makeup...I wonder if more contrast would have helped; the background seems to give a sense of place and I like it...it needs a little more grunge like Joey Lawrence's images, that's the solution I think to this problem.

Message edited by author 2007-05-08 13:01:14.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

05/08/2007 05:12:03 PM · #8

lol I can't win. "I liked it but..." this site is turning into a bunch of nit pickers. Myself included. Guess you develop peeves when you see thousands of images a month.

As for the Joey Lawrence comment, I really like his work but it is HIS work and I'm not trying to be like him. I am trying to learn to develop my own style which is as of now apparently mediocre.

I feel like this site is all about... be like the top scorers but not TOO much or else you are copying. Like how I got some comments about my "Life" entry because it was reminiscant of a recent winner, one I hadn't consciously copied or seen and was not in itself the first of its kind (though undoubtedly fra superior to mine).

mikephotomike

Canon EOS-1D Mark IIn

05/08/2007 05:15:58 PM · #9

people have differing opinions.
don't let it bug you.
do you're own thing.
get over it.

ChikaZAWa

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

05/08/2007 05:18:04 PM · #10

Mike's right.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

05/08/2007 05:28:15 PM · #11

Originally posted by escapetooz:

lol I can't win. "I liked it but..." this site is turning into a bunch of nit pickers.

Monica, it seems to me very unfair to ask people to provide a critique of your photograph and then denegrate their views. You have some excellent work in your portfolio, but you have done a disservice to yourself and to the site with your remarks.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/08/2007 05:55:57 PM · #12

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
lol I can't win. "I liked it but..." this site is turning into a bunch of nit pickers.

Monica, it seems to me very unfair to ask people to provide a critique of your photograph and then denegrate their views. You have some excellent work in your portfolio, but you have done a disservice to yourself and to the site with your remarks.

Sara, I take offense to this comment. I don't feel like I have done a disservice to myself, and saying to site is a far stretch. I didn't denegrate anyone or their comments! I said many of us, including myself nitpick... you find this to be untrue? Because I'll have to dissagree.

This is the internet. You can't feel tone on here. I added the lol hoping to convey I was being lighthearted about it. I asked for a critique, yes. I assume that means pointing out strong points AS WELL AS nitpicks and downsides. Everyone has their personal opinions, of course, and their own way of critiquing but it blows my mind how many comments only say very little about the ACTUAL photograph (expression, cropping, lighting, etc.)

Furthermore I was not picking on anyone in particular, I was giving my general thoughts about the site. And I don't mean to say as the site is directed towards only myself. I am becoming more an more jaded with the way things go on here. SO MANY amazing photographs go underated from all different photographers because they aren not what is popular at the time.

Basically I welcome comments and critiques, I DID ask for it. And I don't feel like I was attacking anyone for what they said, I was replying to their thoughts with my explanations and own thought.

Message edited by author 2007-05-08 17:58:06.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

05/08/2007 05:59:14 PM · #13

I gave you a 7, I thought it was good punk/road movie shot. It didn't hit me with a hammer, yet it was good enough for such a vote. I liked it, and think it should have scored a little higher.

edit, plus I liked the background!

Message edited by author 2007-05-08 18:00:21.

jaysonmc

Nikon D200

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

05/08/2007 06:05:05 PM · #14

2 cents. I think your work is great. I didn't find the background too busy. All your shots in this thread are very 80's pop music sort of style. It is a very neat perspective, good use of lighting, and nice control of the frame.

People can give you different reason "why", sure there are little tidbits on how to make the photo better, but it isn't why it scored low. Really let's be honest if you had the "SAME" shot but with a half dressed lady it would have scored higher. Not being sexiest or anything, but like anything in life there is a market. These photos are not that mainstream market here. If you want high scores give the voters what they want. If you want to contribute to the site and show others new perspectives keep doing what you are doing.

Nonetheless the are terrific photos. Keep up the good work and plug along.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

05/08/2007 06:30:10 PM · #15

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

Thank you. That is honest. Little tidbits and saying "well that's their opinion" are not REAL reasons most of the time. It's so funny on an amateur learning site that there is a "market".

I had the same thought actually... about if he had been a hot she and I think I would have done loads better. I want to do what I want to do and I need to start getting over the scoring thing, but I'm very competitive by nature... I know scoring SHOULDN'T matter that much but it's hard to ignore. I mean, that's why people come here instead of other photo sites. What really got me about this one was HOW off I was on my estimations of how it would do and how FEW comments I originally had before asking for some. If I am expecting a score it's less likely I will be as frustrated.

I hate the "get over it" mentality. I understand whinning is no solution BUT I am here to learn and compete, and when I do poorly in the competition AND get no comments to LEARN from what am I (or anyone else) gaining by posting here but a kick to the ego? Might as well not join the site and keep my photos to portfolio.

bassbone

Nikon Df

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

05/08/2007 06:41:39 PM · #16

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I understand whinning is no solution BUT I am here to learn and compete, and when I do poorly in the competition AND get no comments to LEARN from what am I (or anyone else) gaining by posting here but a kick to the ego? Might as well not join the site and keep my photos to portfolio.

I have sure found the side challenges to be the best tool to get comments and honest critiques. The voting challenges are clearly much more competitive and the shear number of entries really makes it difficult to take the time to comment as you wish. I have found that the comments in the side challenges are much more helpful and have better critique than the 'nice image, 8' or 'beautiful colors' comments we all give on scoring challenges.

I liked the work you have done on with the model - great color and feel - but somehow needs just a little more punch for a challenge - but unfortunately don't have any really good insight on where to give it the punch as I am not real solid with people shots.

efren

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/08/2007 06:51:23 PM · #17

i do not believe this shot to be under-rated. it is what is is.

you have not mentioned what your intent was with this shot. enviromental portrait? if it was he is too close to the panel.and the background is very distracting.

i'll diagree about the gender qualities of the model. if the model is your subject , then proper emphasis must be maintained on him.

i do not belive you have achieved the separation of your model from the background. overall the image is a bit flat.

i would suggest a little dogde/burn

disclaimer: i do not take pictures, only snap-shots

aerogurl

Nikon D300

05/08/2007 07:49:45 PM · #18

I havent read the whole thread, so excuse me if I repeat someone elses comments..

I gave you a 6. I give a 5 for just a infocus, meets the challenge, techinically sound image, a 6 for a shot that has potential, and 7+ for degrees of WOW. I thought the shot lacked a spark, it had no WOW. You had a good model with interesting hair and makeup, but there seemed to be no interaction with the camera, no theme to the shot. The lit background doesnt tell me what the shot is about, it just adds to the confusion. You have a great example of how a shoot should look, its called Hang, your last outtake posted.. there is something to that shot, there is eye contact with the camera, a background I understand, an interesting perspective, good lighting, dof, etc.. it looks like a photo shoot photo is supposed to look.

I didnt have time to comment on all entries, so I don't mind throwing my .02 in when I am asked. Hope that helps..

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

05/11/2007 11:11:18 PM · #19

Originally posted by efren:

i do not believe this shot to be under-rated. it is what is is.

Sorry to drudge up an old thread but I just noticed this and had to say... If my image (as well as MANY images I find underrated on every challenge) is under-rated and is what it is. Then I would have to say that there are many images that are over-rated and are what they aren't. There are usually a ton of dissapointing images scoring very well is see in most every challenge. Why? I have no idea, I think it's the familiarity and the "pop" to the images, regardless of if they are at all truely impressive.

A lot of people commented that my image didn't have enough "pop", but since when was that the judge of a good photo?

levyj413

Nikon D7100

05/11/2007 11:32:19 PM · #20

Originally posted by escapetooz:

A lot of people commented that my image didn't have enough "pop", but since when was that the judge of a good photo?

Ummm. Always? Every time? This subject doesn't grab me. Does that make me wrong?

Look, did YOU like the shot? Did he? Does it fit a style or experiment you're trying out? Then great.

But yes, this is a market. If you're going for score, you're going for the highest average vote, across all voters, not just the ones who happen to like what you like.

I'm editing this to contrast it with another of your shots that I've liked since the first time I saw it:

Now THAT shot grabs me. Who is she? Why are her shoes off? Is she resting after a long day? What's behind that look? What time of day is it, and does that play into the emotional feel?

Message edited by author 2007-05-11 23:34:35.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/11/2007 11:33:26 PM · #21

In a free study that generates anywhere from 400-500 entries you really need to do something different to stand out. It could be as little has choosing a unique subject, composition or bold processing but whatever it is it can't look too much like everything else otherwise voters will give you a 5 or 6 and move on to something else. In short you need to make the voter stop and really look at it.

Here's a few things I believe would have helped your score with this particular photo:

1. Maintain detail - Smoothing the skin can be a big turn off for many voters especially when it's done to a male model. Females not so much.

2. Add more sharpening - DPC loves it's super sharp images. Unless the shot is deemed "moody" as in a b/w white candid shot the voter will expect you to sharpen it to the max. I tend to oversharpen my images as I believe that's better than undersharpening them when it comes to these challenges.

3. More pop - You've got good contrast already but something needs to "pop" from the image so I would have probably added more contrast and do some other things to make the guy's makeup and hair stand out more. That would give this a more bold look for what is already a bold subject.

I think if you had done those three things you would have scored over 6 easily as it would have stood out from the sea of other portrait shots that were entered.

ETA: I didn't read your other responses to this thread so forgive me if some of these things have already been stated.

Message edited by author 2007-05-11 23:36:38.

05/11/2007 11:44:01 PM · #22

Originally posted by yanko:

Thanks for the tips. I didn't smooth the skin actually, he had full makeup (even on his torso) and naturally smooth skin anyhow. As for sharpening, I did. And I hate the overdone "outline" look so I try not to push it, but I know what you mean.