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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Seriously, who's giving out the 1's?
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05/04/2007 01:02:51 PM · #1
Not too long ago, I entered my first challenge - kitchenware. Yeah, ok, I'm no Paul Strand, but I was surprised to see more than one '1' in the voting breakdown. 3 I can understand - even if I don't agree - maybe somebody just didn't like the subject matter, but seriously, 1? Technically and compositionally it was good, it was clear, and maybe it was no Aurora Borealis in Iceland, but I have a theory. Could this be people in the same challenge trying to drop the scores of their competitors? That would be pretty low, but this is the internet after all. I also found this to be a common theme, even among ribbon winners. Show yourselves!
05/04/2007 01:05:37 PM · #2
Since the subject was kitchen ware, and you gave the voters a photo of store shelves (read: not in a kitchen), there were probably several that felt it was bordering on not meeting the challenge. You admit it it's not a technically fantastic photo. You have a very normal voting distribution, and the photo scored right about where it should. Forming lynch mobs are just unnecessary. It's something you'll either get used to as you become part of the community here or it will drive you away from the site.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 13:07:14.
05/04/2007 01:07:16 PM · #3
Some people vote on a curve and use the whole scale 1-10, so that dictates a few ones at least.

There is likely some attempts at troll voting, but the scrubber usually removes the majority of those.

It's just a fact of life...
05/04/2007 01:12:32 PM · #4
These are both very logical explanations - and no, I'm not trying to form a lynch mob - I guess I'm just still pretty new at this, and I'm trying to understand why, especially on the ribbon winners, why people are dishing out 1's, but of course, it's a free country(ies) and the the 1 button is there...
05/04/2007 01:20:09 PM · #5
"Dead horse, meet Stick. You will be beaten."
05/04/2007 01:20:44 PM · #6
Its your first submission and you are new to DPC. I reviewed and even critiqued your image. Now I will comment on it's scoring distribution...

Basically you got 2 1s out of 176 votes when it appears, without analysis, that you probably should have got zero 1s based on a normal bell curve distribution.

That is what you are concerned about.

I might also point out that you got some high scores that also defy a normal bell curve distribution. You will likely have responders to this discussion tell you that the higher "undeserved" scores balance out the 1s. They are right. It does.

In this case it is likely that the 1s were from voters who felt that your image did not meet the challenge and that justified a vote of 1. It is just an opinion from two fringe voters, not a fact. Though you or I might disagree with it does not make it an invalid opinion.

It is wrong to pay much attention to low votes. They are just fringe opinions that are legitimate within their own context. You are better served to ignore them than anything else, otherwise you need to ask yourself why people gave top end "undeserved" scores. I doubt you are gonna do that.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 13:26:01.
05/04/2007 01:26:40 PM · #7
Originally posted by stdavidson:

otherwise you need to ask yourself why people gave top end "undeserved" scores. I doubt you are gonna do that.


Hah, you're right - I neglected to mention those ones
05/04/2007 01:31:29 PM · #8
i use the whole scale in order to sort thru all the images as accurately as i can

try not to think of your final score as a grade in school, but rather see where you placed in the challenge. I've scored 7's and not won a ribbon ... but I've also ribboned with a 6.7.

Some challenges don't pull high scores like other challenges ... no big deal. I don't care if I pull a 4, as long as everyone else gets a 3.9 or lower :)
05/04/2007 01:36:20 PM · #9
If a photograph doesn't meet the challenge in the slightest it can't get more than a four using my voting method, of which everyone's differs. Yours may have escaped with a 2 but I wouldn't have hesitated too much over giving it a 1 as even on it's own merit it doesn't stand too well. Everyone votes differently. By the way I didn't vote on that challenge.

You've got some good kit and some good portfolio shots, I'm sure you'll do better next time.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 13:37:00.
05/04/2007 01:45:15 PM · #10
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Some people vote on a curve and use the whole scale 1-10, so that dictates a few ones at least.

There is likely some attempts at troll voting, but the scrubber usually removes the majority of those.

It's just a fact of life...


There's a scrubber?? What's the scrubber?
05/04/2007 01:45:39 PM · #11
Originally posted by Rankles:

If a photograph doesn't meet the challenge in the slightest it can't get more than a four using my voting method, of which everyone's differs. Yours may have escaped with a 2 but I wouldn't have hesitated too much over giving it a 1 as even on it's own merit it doesn't stand too well. Everyone votes differently. By the way I didn't vote on that challenge.

You've got some good kit and some good portfolio shots, I'm sure you'll do better next time.

It saddens me to read something like this.

Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 13:46:19.
05/04/2007 01:52:59 PM · #12
Originally posted by stdavidson:

Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures.

That's what the forums are for. The challenges are topic based and should be voted on in that context using whatever criteria each voter chooses, IMO.
05/04/2007 02:05:16 PM · #13
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

... The challenges are topic based and should be voted on in that context using whatever criteria each voter chooses, IMO.

I agree. A BIG part of doing well in a challenge is being able to MEET the challenge in a one week period.

Sure, definitions of what meets the challenge and what doesn't is subjective per individual - as is what constitues a good photograph and what doesn't.

It's a two part process.
1) Identify a suitable subject for the challenge theme.
2) Take a (technically sound, interesting, emotive, etc... pick one) photograph of the subject.
05/04/2007 02:05:41 PM · #14
Originally posted by Redjulep:

There's a scrubber?? What's the scrubber?


There are algorithms present which remove votes which seem to have been cast in non-random ways. Nobody knows exactly what they do, but they can remove votes along with votes from voters who didn't reach 20% of the total.

It's generally believed the scrubbers concentrate on the lower end of the voting scale.
05/04/2007 02:06:16 PM · #15
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures.

That's what the forums are for. The challenges are topic based and should be voted on in that context using whatever criteria each voter chooses, IMO.

I agree... just think that topical criticism does little to improve a photographer's skill.
05/04/2007 02:12:54 PM · #16
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Redjulep:

There's a scrubber?? What's the scrubber?


There are algorithms present which remove votes which seem to have been cast in non-random ways. Nobody knows exactly what they do, but they can remove votes along with votes from voters who didn't reach 20% of the total.

It's generally believed the scrubbers concentrate on the lower end of the voting scale.

I can assure you that if you vote to 'high' that the scrubber will get you to. At least in some circumstances, such as giving all 10s, it will and it shouldn't, but it does. :)
05/04/2007 02:14:55 PM · #17
Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures.

That's what the forums are for. The challenges are topic based and should be voted on in that context using whatever criteria each voter chooses, IMO.

I agree... just think that topical criticism does little to improve a photographer's skill.

But it's all part of the package IMO. Topical criticism, done discreetly, can be helpful. If you have a bird challenge and someone enters a photo of a rubber duck the challenge has been met marginally at best.

Part of the skill set for a photographer IS finding a suitable subject whether it's for a challenge on DPC or for some other pursuit.
05/04/2007 02:18:26 PM · #18
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures.

That's what the forums are for. The challenges are topic based and should be voted on in that context using whatever criteria each voter chooses, IMO.

I agree... just think that topical criticism does little to improve a photographer's skill.

But it's all part of the package IMO. Topical criticism, done discreetly, can be helpful. If you have a bird challenge and someone enters a photo of a rubber duck the challenge has been met marginally at best.

Part of the skill set for a photographer IS finding a suitable subject whether it's for a challenge on DPC or for some other pursuit.

I agree with this opinion as well. I would disagree that a 1 is either "discreet" or "helpful".
05/04/2007 02:19:57 PM · #19
For what is worth I scored your photograph a 5 using my votecard.
Here is the vote card I go by


I ask myself four question:

1. Did your photograph meet the challenge [somewhat] =5
2. Photograph quality [good] +0
Did not think the quality was good enough to justify a +1 because of composition and distracting isles on each side and the photograph was very busy.
3. Photograph Creativity [good] +0
Did not think your photograph had enough creativity to justify a +1
4. Does the photograph have the "WOW" factor [no] +0
I did not see a wow factor in your photograph

As you can see my voting system works (for me) as I scored your photograph within .2000 of your final score.

I hope this helps you see how I vote on challenges. And I feel it is a fair way of voting, atleast for me.

SDW

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 14:22:24.
05/04/2007 02:22:22 PM · #20
Originally posted by swhiddon:





05/04/2007 02:24:30 PM · #21
Originally posted by swhiddon:

For what is worth I scored your photograph a 5 using my votecard....

Whoa! Careful, Scott! I tried revealing my thoughtful breakdown of how I vote awhile back and generally got slammed for posting the breakdown in the comments. Apparently many people think it is more helpful for me to just click a number and move on or to leave a comment like "Great Job!" rather than a categorized rating that I used.

Pfft. I am weary of this whole endless debate anyway. Shoulda kept my nose out of it. :/
05/04/2007 02:26:38 PM · #22
Lawl its only a virtual ribbon~
05/04/2007 02:39:41 PM · #23
Hey swhiddon I think that your voting card is great. I am going to consider using it because Occasionally I'll come across a photo that I don't know what score to give it. This is a good guideline for casting a vote. Everything is about averages.
05/04/2007 03:01:22 PM · #24
I am one of those voters who use the whole scale. It isn't necessarily that the photo is "bad" but I do compare to the other images and come up with a score as far as the quality of the other images. I did not give this a 1. I will admit, I did give it a 2, and I was the only one, but it isn't because it was technically horrible, but as compared to all the others I rated it where I think it belonged on the scale. I also gave out few 9 or 10's. I did not enter this challenge, I simply voted. That is generally what I do. So, you may tar and feather me, but please let me get cleaned up by tomorrow so I can get another black and white shot for the 30 day challenge.
In addition, my top 3 scores did not even place in the top 10 overall. I am a weird voter who can't get it. That is why my images get more than most others in 1 and 2's. I take photos as I see them, but in comparison to all the other folks at dp, they are not worthy of much more than 3 and 4's.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 15:03:20.
05/04/2007 03:06:24 PM · #25
Junie, a photograph of you tarred and feathered would already be pretty much black and white...
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