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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> WHEN do you go pro?
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 04/30/2007 08:45:37 PM · #1
So I got an email last night and just didn't know how to answer it. Basically it asks the question WHEN do you go pro?
HOW do you go pro is a huge and complicated question by itself, but WHEN is the right time? That's another animal all together.

For me, I took it in baby steps. I kept the day job and slowly worked up a book of business until I was beginning to meet my sales goals.

So when did it click for you that you should go out as a full-time photographer? Or, if you're working that direction, at what point do you believe you will be ready to go full-time? How will you know when its time?


04/30/2007 08:46:53 PM · #2
The right time is now.

Trust me.
 04/30/2007 08:51:30 PM · #3
Great question Cindi! I'm hoping to "go pro" soon. How soon? Hmmm...still have to support family and pay the mortgage. My wife has the same earning potential I do in nursing, so when she goes back to work full time, I'll probably switch to photography. At this point, it's looking like close to school starting this fall. In the mean time, I'm continuing to grow my business and contact list. Any suggestions are welcome!
 04/30/2007 08:53:30 PM · #4
When you know enough about the business to write the Business Proposal?
 04/30/2007 08:53:36 PM · #5
My sister does wedding photography in a small town. She loves the work she does but it is by no means an income. Her husband is a panel beater and the photography is a side line. Last weekend she wanted to put some photos into the local show. She has never entered photos into any photo comp. and was stunned to learn that she could not enter as she was a professional. She has never considered it as such. She ended up being able to enter on section that professionals could enter - where photos wer expected to be PS'd and she won grand champion.

So when do you actually cross the line, as photography is definately a side line for her at the moment. She would only do a wedding every couple of months.
 04/30/2007 08:55:05 PM · #6
Questions to ponder:

What does it mean to go pro? Does it mean you make "some money" at what you are doing? Does it mean you at least take the responsibility for what you are doing seriously, even if you've not yet turned a profit? Does it mean you're livelyhood currently depends upon the income you make from your work as a photographer?


04/30/2007 09:02:03 PM · #7
Youre talking about actually working for a living, aren't you? Go wash your mouth out with soap!
 04/30/2007 09:07:53 PM · #8
Originally posted by dwterry:
Questions to ponder:

What does it mean to go pro? Does it mean you make "some money" at what you are doing? Does it mean you at least take the responsibility for what you are doing seriously, even if you've not yet turned a profit? Does it mean you're livelyhood currently depends upon the income you make from your work as a photographer?


David - that's precisely why I didn't have a good answer to the question. Where do you draw the line between hobby and profession? Is it the money that makes the difference? Is it the time committed to it? Is it a frame of mind? In my case one thing kinda blobby morphed into another thing and then another. I never set out to have my business begin on "XXX" date. Instead its as if the business just 'always was' and I got better and better at managing it.
04/30/2007 09:13:25 PM · #9
when the kids finish school and the house is paid off.
 04/30/2007 09:28:19 PM · #10
Never!

I'll never go pro.

I love photography! It's what I do to get away from the daily grind. It's my passion and my creative outlet. If I go pro, then I'll be required to shoot and required to make money at it. At that point I'm no longer shooting what I want or how I want to shoot it.

:(

Then I'd need a new hobby.
 04/30/2007 10:26:22 PM · #11
Originally posted by Gringo:
Never!

I'll never go pro.

I love photography! It's what I do to get away from the daily grind. It's my passion and my creative outlet. If I go pro, then I'll be required to shoot and required to make money at it. At that point I'm no longer shooting what I want or how I want to shoot it.

:(

Then I'd need a new hobby.


That's EXACTLY the way I feel about it too. I charge enough to help pay for my "hardware addiction", but not enough to pay the mortgage. I really enjoy my day job, and I really enjoy my photography. I want to keep them that way. :-)

04/30/2007 10:30:47 PM · #12
Isn't going Pro (as defined by the IRS) when your income from Photography is 51% of your total gross.

The upside Pro is easier to spell then Enthusiast , downside as Gringo stated "would have to find another hobby"

Seriously, I think it is all about how important a title is to the person and their clients. I think in the Studio/Wedding environments one would have to use the title to ease the clients fears.

I have seen of lots of great photogs that would not come forward and say (admit) they were Professionals. On the other hand I've seen some advertised (self or otherwise) professionals that produce some less than desireable results.

My official title is Senior Network Engineer/System Architect, I have to believe if you called me a technician that I would have a hissy fit. A title puts you somewhere on the food chain of the ladder of life... and it is no fun saying that you are on the bottom.

Just my thoughts

Message edited by author 2007-04-30 22:34:42.
 04/30/2007 10:34:04 PM · #13
Originally posted by _eug:
When you know enough about the business to write the Business Proposal?


Absolutely.

If you don't have a guide to your biz plan, than it doesn't matter if you call yourself a pro or not.

You can all the gear, and biz cards, and portfolios you want, but if your losing money something is wrong.

If your losing money because of lack of disipline to the plan, than I don't think you were ever serious enough to be a pro.

ALSO...

In my profession, getting a call back is everything. Call backs kind of make you a pro in itself.
04/30/2007 11:10:45 PM · #14
I found myself unemployed almost 70 days ago now. I've been trying to scrape together some assignements to get the ball rolling for an income, and just haven't gotten that start yet. If photography gets going before I land a job, then great, but otherwise, I'll wait until something comes together enough to replace my income.

As far as the hobby vs. job, I think that depends on your goal. If photography is a stress relief, then yeah, try to avoid going pro, but if it's something that you absolutley love doing, then by all means, go pro.

Thanks for the timing on this question, I just had to do this thinking in my head too.
 04/30/2007 11:18:58 PM · #15
I think the question is When to go full time, not when to go pro. Consider yourself a pro the moment you MIGHT be able to convince the IRS you are trying to make a profit.
 04/30/2007 11:24:48 PM · #16
when?

well, i guess it depends on what you mean by 'going pro'. when does a doctor or lawyer or architect or accountant 'go pro'? if you look at professional photography in the same light as you look at other professionals, 'going pro' happens at the time you make a commitment to earning a living at what you've trained yourself (or have been trained) to do.

the thing is, those other professions require a degree and some certification. you can't legally practice law or medicine as a hobby, can you?

with photography, all you have to do is get a business card with the word 'photography' added to your name, and voila, you're a professional photographer...

seriously, though, when you are ready to make the same commitment to the profession that other professionals make to theirs, that's when you 'go pro'. more than anything else, it's commitment. otherwise, it's just something to throw money at...
 05/01/2007 10:03:53 AM · #17
The day that your decsion to buy (or not buy) a piece of equipment is based on the profit/savings you can earn/gain from it and not on the sexiness of the piece of kit.

The day that you print a picture that you dislike because the customer loves it.

The day that the perfect picture is not the Holy Grail. But rather a collection of good pictures that make the customer comfortable.

The day that the customer pays for your experimentation with lighting, effects, etc.
 05/01/2007 04:46:40 PM · #18
As soon as you get paid to make a photo, you are a pro.
When you work at it full time (or have no other source of income) then you are a full time pro.
If you can make a living at it, then you are an established pro.

The decision? Can happen at 3am or the next time your boss pisses you off.

Deciding something and accomplishing it are two different things. If you are serious about it then you need a plan - preferably a written plan. With a plan you have a path to follow and a destination. Without a plan you are wandering aimlessly and won't know when you've arrived, or even if you've arrived.
 05/01/2007 05:05:51 PM · #19
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
As soon as you get paid to make a photo, you are a pro.

c'mon, chris...only an idiot who got paid a couple bucks from aunt marge would walk around calling themselves a pro ;-)
 05/01/2007 05:39:10 PM · #20
I agree with Skip, I'm a graphic designer & i work for a very small advertising company here in Egypt & i do all the photography work for the company but i don't consider myself a pro at all cause i don't know that much about photography & cameras though i studied art & graphic and some classes included photography

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 19:18:18.
 05/06/2007 10:27:33 PM · #21
while so many refer only to the income, thats definitely not the entire story. Sure, income plays a major part in where you should consider yourself on the "professional ladder", I think its more about how you conduct business and the value that you provide.

Its about responsibility and attitude - towards your work, your clients, and yourself. A professional has ethics (or maybe I should say "should have ethics"). A professional has respect for his or her profession and conducts business as a member of that profession. In other words, as a professional, you are ultimately responsible directly to your customers to provide value for their money. While value itself is a difficult to define, thats what its about. This is why the top level pros can charge so much money and pull in the big clients - they have a perceived value to the client and are known to get the job done.

I'd take a wild guess and say that probably 95% of the people that hang around DPC have no real idea about the amount of pressure that high income photographers and designers work under. If you are not ready to handle the stresses of business and the responsibilities that being a pro requires, then stick to being playing on a different level.

To give you a more concrete example, I work as a commercial photographer and designer. Currently I am under contract for several projects for a Japanese media conglomerate. In my contract it specifies timelines for each individual project, an agreed upon sum of money for each project, and both parties responsibilities. .... read the fine print - IF I blow a deadline, I have to pay a huge amount of money. How huge? Lets just say that you could easily buy a house in most parts of the US. Whats NOT written is that if I blow the contract, then I wont see any more work from this client or other companies in the same market. Deadlines are deadlines, and they dont care if I have a car wreck and end up in the hospital. If the deadline is the 30th of the month it literally means the 30th at 12:00:00 am. One second late IS late. That is the reality of the job. Responsibility is paramount. And that is why I am a professional. I expect to be held accountable, and I expect to be well paid in exchange.

In the end it is up to you as the photographer to position yourself accurately in a market and make sure that you are able to fulfill your clients expectations in that market. Each market of course is unique and requires its own way of doing business.

I realize that my comments here dont really directly address the original question in this post. However, I think it is important to address the meaning of professional as it does come up regularly.

05/07/2007 10:35:02 AM · #22
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
As soon as you get paid to make a photo, you are a pro.

c'mon, chris...only an idiot who got paid a couple bucks from aunt marge would walk around calling themselves a pro ;-)


Legal definition.
Others define it as making more than 50% of the money needed to support yourself from photography.

Reality? It's the customer's perception.
Got a website? Business cards? Charge money for the work you do? Then you're a professional - in ANY field, not just photography.

If I pay you $20 to cut my grass does than make you a 'lawn car professional'? Get hurt and we go to court, and yes, it does. There are legal and financial responsibilities that go with charging money for work. Not considering yourself a pro has nothing to do with it.

I come to your house for dinner. You cook it and serve me. You are not a professional cook or waiter. NO big deal. Now go get a job at McDonalds doing the same thing for $6 an hour, and yes, you are now a 'professional' in the food service industry and certain things change - all kinds of food safety, hygenine, insurance, and liability now apply.

It's not the pay or often your attitude that determines if you are a professional. If you are charging money for work you are a defacto pro.

If can't make a living at it, well that just makes you a bad business man.
 05/08/2007 06:16:45 AM · #23
Originally posted by idnic:
So I got an email last night and just didn't know how to answer it. Basically it asks the question WHEN do you go pro?
HOW do you go pro is a huge and complicated question by itself, but WHEN is the right time? That's another animal all together.

For me, I took it in baby steps. I kept the day job and slowly worked up a book of business until I was beginning to meet my sales goals.

So when did it click for you that you should go out as a full-time photographer? Or, if you're working that direction, at what point do you believe you will be ready to go full-time? How will you know when its time?


When you say, "I am now a photographer"..

It is as simple as that!

Ben
 05/09/2007 12:30:18 PM · #24
i have a plan. I have it in my bio but i will copy and paste it here..

Next year in my grade 12 year I'll be graduating in only half the year. In the last half of the year I plan on working full time to save up enough money to support me and my girlfriend living in Vancouver. By September of 2008 me and Fiona(my girlfriend) will be in Vancouver, we are going to find a little apartment for us, She is going to be going to Vancouver Film school for special effects makeup(she's already an amazing makeup artist, PM for a link to some of her work)and I will be there to try and get my photography career started. I will either find a little job on the side while i try and get my name out in Vancouver area and get gigs, or to try and find a photographer in the Vancouver area that would be willing to take me in as an assistant. Then eventully i will own my own studio in the heart of Vancouver shooting for large magazines and taking photos of famous people, and be known as a successful glamor/portrait photographer.
There is my plan in life, my future.
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