Please don't go for the worst score

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

04/30/2007 12:51:19 AM · #1

To all the people who think it's funny to shoot a bad picture, please stop.

You just waste the time of a couple hundred people who have to come up with a score, plus even more time of those helpful souls who comment on the incorrect basis that you were trying your best.

At a minimum, I think anyone who does this owes all commenters at least 5 comments on shots in their portfolios in repayment for wasting their time. Whether you actually get the lowest score or not.

Now, if you're taking a far-out-of-the-box shot to make some point, fine. But please don't aim for bad shots.

Thanks.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

04/30/2007 01:03:51 AM · #2

I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it.

Folks are always struggling to get helpful comments on low-scoring shots, and too often now commenters find that the photographer intentionally entered a poor shot.

Those commenters are going to think twice about possibly getting burned again. Rather, they just won't bother, and those who really are trying and do want help miss out.

Spitfyr

Nikon D3300

04/30/2007 01:06:52 AM · #3

When I find a shot that was obviously taken as a "bad" picture, I skip it and don't vote on it. Maybe if these "bad" picture takers recieved no votes they would get a clue?

04/30/2007 01:35:52 AM · #4

are people actually entering intentionally "bad" images or is it just different tastes?
for example

finished 141/149

hell, its not even in focus!

not having a go, i am asking the question.
nick

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

04/30/2007 01:41:25 AM · #5

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

are people actually entering intentionally "bad" images or is it just different tastes?
for example

finished 141/149

hell, its not even in focus!

not having a go, i am asking the question.
nick

Yes, they are. Look at comments from the people who take the lowest-scoring shots and you'll see that some specifically attempt it. There are also threads where people discuss how to get low-scoring shots.

That one from Xion might well be artsy study of light and texture, as opposed to a deliberately bad shot. In other words, it might be an abstract as opposed to a recognizable photo of a thing.

That's the problem with just skipping things that "look" like they're deliberately bad - you just never know when someone is deliberately doing it, deliberately choosing a take on the challenge that might not go over well with the average voter, or just doesn't know yet how to use their camera to achieve what they want.

Message edited by author 2007-04-30 01:41:57.

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/30/2007 01:51:09 AM · #6

If it bothers you just skip over images you think are submitted purposely to get a low score. There is no law you have to vote every image and that way you would not contribute to giving it a low score. And should you be wrong and it was a serious entry it still would hardly matter.

Contrary to site suggestion, I rarely comment on images I score 3 or below. Fortunately there aren't many of those but the ones there are are generally so bad that the submitter needs more assistance than a few off handed remarks can provide.

04/30/2007 01:52:09 AM · #7

Originally posted by levyj413:

fair enough, i must have just not seen these thread topic's/comments that you are refering too.
i just hope that by posting comments like this you are not deterring people from entering images that they like knowing they will score low.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/30/2007 01:52:58 AM · #8

Originally posted by Spitfyr:

When I find a shot that was obviously taken as a "bad" picture, I skip it and don't vote on it. Maybe if these "bad" picture takers recieved no votes they would get a clue?

I do the same, but the trouble is that some that seem obvious might NOT be trying for brown, and those people miss out on helpful comments, and THAT is a shame.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

04/30/2007 01:54:41 AM · #9

I have to agree with Steve and actually it applies to pretty much any image. If I don't feel I can provide a useful, constructive comment there's no point in leaving one. Even if I leave a 10, a comment like "I like it" isn't going to do anything other boost their ego. If I really like it and believe it deserves a 10, I should say why. One thing to consider (and I just thought of this now), other people besides the photographer read the comments on a shot. If someone ribbons and all I see is "wow!" and "great shot!" I am not going to learn anything. If someone names something specific, good or bad about a photo, I can learn from that photographer's experience.

addendum: So even if a shot is really poor and someone does take the time to comment on it there is still value in the comment if it is constructive no matter what the motives of the photographer happen to be

Message edited by author 2007-04-30 01:55:54.

04/30/2007 01:54:49 AM · #10

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by levyj413:

Yes, they are. Look at comments from the people who take the lowest-scoring shots and you'll see that some specifically attempt it. There are also threads where people discuss how to get low-scoring shots.

That one from Xion might well be artsy study of light and texture, as opposed to a deliberately bad shot. In other words, it might be an abstract as opposed to a recognizable photo of a thing.

That's the problem with just skipping things that "look" like they're deliberately bad - you just never know when someone is deliberately doing it, deliberately choosing a take on the challenge that might not go over well with the average voter, or just doesn't know yet how to use their camera to achieve what they want.

fair enough, i must have just not seen these thread topic's/comments that you are refering too.
i just hope that by posting comments like this you are not deterring people from entering images that they like knowing they will score low.

Not our intention at all, and hopefully nobody will misunderstand that. But have a look at the last place in "kitchenware" and you'll see what we're referring to :)

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

04/30/2007 01:58:11 AM · #11

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

i just hope that by posting comments like this you are not deterring people from entering images that they like knowing they will score low.

Then to be clear, I'm talking SOLELY about people who put comments on their photos like "This was my attempt at the brown ribbon."

By all means, outside of that, people should experiment and try whatever they like, as long as it's an honest attempt to get feedback via scores or comments. Some of my favorite photographers routinely enter stuff that doesn't fit the mold of high-scoring shots here.

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/30/2007 02:00:04 AM · #12

Originally posted by BeeCee:

have a look at the last place in "kitchenware" and you'll see what we're referring to :)

:)
understood,
nick

mist

Canon EOS-60D

04/30/2007 02:04:02 AM · #13

I don't think it matters that much.

I mean, I find it a bit odd that someone would shoot for brown, but if that's how they get their kicks, so be it.

As for the comments left, well. The original photog may not find a comment telling them how to improve their brown shot useful, but other people reading the comments could. Other people can look at the results of the challenge, see that shot, read your comment and think "hmm, yeah, that's useful advice". So it's not wasted time.

Monique64

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

04/30/2007 02:12:54 AM · #14

Not our intention at all, and hopefully nobody will misunderstand that. But have a look at the last place in "kitchenware" and you'll see what we're referring to :) [/quote]

What I cant believe is that someone gave it a 10!!

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/30/2007 02:16:34 AM · #15

Originally posted by Monique64:

Not our intention at all, and hopefully nobody will misunderstand that. But have a look at the last place in "kitchenware" and you'll see what we're referring to :)

What I cant believe is that someone gave it a 10!! [/quote]

That's likely somebody trying to prevent his obvious attempt at brown from succeeding.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

04/30/2007 07:10:50 AM · #16

trust me, people like aznym only enter shots they like.

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by levyj413:

That one from Xion might well be artsy study of light and texture, as opposed to a deliberately bad shot. In other words, it might be an abstract as opposed to a recognizable photo of a thing.

That's the problem with just skipping things that "look" like they're deliberately bad - you just never know when someone is deliberately doing it, deliberately choosing a take on the challenge that might not go over well with the average voter, or just doesn't know yet how to use their camera to achieve what they want.

i just hope that by posting comments like this you are not deterring people from entering images that they like knowing they will score low.

so what do we do...get art to torch the village of anyone submitting something that comes in a point less than their overall average?

Canon FD 70-210mm �4.0 MF

04/30/2007 07:23:43 AM · #17

Originally posted by Skip:

trust me, people like aznym only enter shots they like.

so what do we do...get art to torch the village of anyone submitting something that comes in a point less than their overall average?

my point exactly

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

04/30/2007 07:49:05 AM · #18

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Spitfyr:
When I find a shot that was obviously taken as a "bad" picture, I skip it and don't vote on it. Maybe if these "bad" picture takers recieved no votes they would get a clue?

I do the same, but the trouble is that some that seem obvious might NOT be trying for brown, and those people miss out on helpful comments, and THAT is a shame.

Just give those shots the vote they deserve; 1, 2, 3, 4.

If many people would skip a photo like that and not give it the low rating your run into the chance that the few who vote on it might give it a 6, 7, 8, 9 or even a 10. By not giving the low vote it deserves you are basically helping the photo to be overrated, leaving others clueless why such a piece of crap could outperform their own lower scoring photo.

In the unlikely worst case scenario, when everyone who thinks it is an intentional brown ribbon photo, and skips it in voting and the photo gets a 10 from a joker, three 8's from out extreme of the box appreciators and five 7's for all kinds of reasons than you end up with an average of 7.667 and will most likely ribbon.
That was an extreme example, but that is what you are doing when you skip votes on bad photos.

shutterpuppy

Sony Alpha a7

04/30/2007 01:09:58 PM · #19

I'll admit that the "intentional brown attempt" effect has caused me to stop leaving comments on images on most of the ones I score the lowest. This is a combination of 1) being a little angry at "intentional browns" as I think it shows a kind of disrespect for the site, the challenges, and the people who take the challenges seriously and always try their best. And, similar to what stdavidson and citadel have already said below, 2) feeling that I can't really provide a constructive comment to the (rare) photo that I would score in the 1-3 range. I find that I most leave comments during the voting on images in the middle range of my scoring (4-8) because there are a lot of shots in there that I have a really good idea of what would have made me score it higher if it had been done differently.

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/30/2007 01:27:57 PM · #20

Originally posted by Skip:

trust me, people like aznym only enter shots they like.

Yup, but I can't imagine why people thought that was a brown attempt. No, really, I'm serious. I never would have thought this beautiful abstract was anything other than art.

Message edited by author 2007-04-30 13:28:13.

04/30/2007 01:34:46 PM · #21

I liked it in a quirky way, and didn't even imagine it an attempt at brown, which I don't believe it was. But then again, I like OOB, as long as it's not off the planet too :)