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12/04/2003 02:57:25 AM · #1 |
First, don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, I am very happy with my 3rd place and thank you all for appreciating my picture. It was an exciting week to see the score move between 7.15 and 6.85, knowing it is close to a ribbon.
Also congratulations to all others, top 3 or not, this was a great scents and aroma challenge with tight competition and wonderful images. I enjoyed participating and voting, great to be confronted with such beautiful images each time.
And I am not after an explanation why people give a certain score, I don't need an explanation, everybody has its own right to use the criteria fit to him/her.
I am just wondering how it is possible that such a large number of images show a relative high number of "3" ratings (so people giving a rating of 3 to a picture). I see it on my own, but I see it on many others, just have a look 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th place for example.
One would expect a certain statistical normal distribution, but many images have a high number of 3-ratings. Is the group to small for a statistical even distribution ? What if all votes of a challenge are added together, is then the same pattern visible ?
It would only be really worrying if those people who give those 3-ratings all together have the same high rating, and if that is a recurring pattern in other challenges.
Are such patterns ever checked by the site admins ?
Are these pattern just a coincidence ?
Anyone wants to share some thoughts ? Any statistics experts out there ?
Message edited by author 2003-12-04 03:26:57. |
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12/04/2003 05:06:15 AM · #2 |
| I don't know if I would consider just a couple more votes of three over four statistically significant. Certainly not some sort of conspiracy. I would think there is something psychologically satisfying in marking a photo a 3 instead of a 1 or 2 if you don't like it that appeals to people. That would be my guess if 3 does statistically come up more often than 4. |
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12/04/2003 07:37:51 AM · #3 |
I rated your picture with a 10, willem. I really like the picture. But if I don't like a photo and if it doesn't even meet the challenge.... I never give it a 1 or a 2. I give it a 3 or a 4.
I see that first place have 10 3's. Some people might not be fond of dark photos. Second place has 5. It seems that this happens on all the challenges. I thought that if I meet the challenge, if I am in focus, if the picture is not noisy and not disgusting to look at, I won't get 1's and 2's and 3's. Dreams... Six voters gave me 1's. Five voters gave me 2's. Twentyfive voters gave me 3. I am perfectly all right with the 4's. They just didn't like it. But 36 people told me through the votes that I was totally wrong, totally beside the challenge and that my picture was hurting their eyes. Should I give up for this? Maybe I can still became a better photographer... Maybe they just had a bad day and my photo was at least acceptable. Your image have 15 of 3's. Next after you have 5 marks of 3. Maybe some voters don't like the effect you created there. I find it wonderful... but why can't you believe that some might not liked it and considered a mistake to add it to the picture?
Just a thought.
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12/04/2003 08:01:11 AM · #4 |
I have no problem if people don't like my picture and give it a 3, for whatever reasons, thats up to them. This was not to discuss my picture.
I just thought it was striking to see a peak of 3's at so many pictures.
But the explanations of Technoschroom and yourself make sense. People rather give a 3 instead of 1 and 2, which they consider exceptionally hard.
Message edited by author 2003-12-04 08:01:28. |
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12/04/2003 09:23:47 AM · #5 |
| For the results to be valid by conventional statistical methodology, voters like Techno and amazoneea would have to be convinced to give about the same number of 1's and 2's as they do 9's and 10's. I wish they would but not to the extent of forcing the issue. After all, to quote the General "there is No requirement to evaluate a photo with any form of objectivity. People are free to use any vote from 1 to 10 on any photo, based solely on their own, personal, subjective likes or dislikes". I think we have to accept the voting results with all there statistical flaws and idiosyncrasies. |
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12/04/2003 09:35:27 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
For the results to be valid by conventional statistical methodology, voters like Techno..... |
Actually, I didn't indicate how I voted. I merely guessed at why there might be a spike in the "3" votes. For me at least to create a normal distribution I would have to vote a lot more 9's and 10's. |
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12/04/2003 09:41:52 AM · #7 |
| For myself, I voted "creativity" on this chalange higher than image quality. If someone posted a Flower, I voted lower, mostly becase that was such a cop out choice. I am pleased to see that my two personal vavorites of the whole chalange came in 2nd and 3rd. |
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12/04/2003 09:49:05 AM · #8 |
| Maybe the unexplainable increase of 3 votes is part of a subliminal Vatican propaganda to imprint the concept of the Trinity into the members of DPC. |
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12/04/2003 10:36:27 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
Maybe the unexplainable increase of 3 votes is part of a subliminal Vatican propaganda to imprint the concept of the Trinity into the members of DPC. |
Is this how the Trinch stole Christmas? |
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12/04/2003 11:14:37 AM · #10 |
The reason I am not giving 1's and 2's is exactly my ignorance. I can tell I like a picture and I can stick to it no matter what someone would tell me. If it gives me a nice feeling, than it achieved the purpose. So I can give it a 10 without regrets. But it might happen to hate a photo. To be more precise, it happened. I hated the look of "Escape" from All alone challenge. All that blood made me feel horible. And I thought that I would never agree to let my kids see such a photo and be impressed by the "beauty" of it. I gave it a 2. If I would have given it a 1, the score was going to be lower. I read every comment that was made on the picture and I was surprised to see that so many people find it excellent. I forced myself to look again at it and leave out all the prejudices I had about blood and taking one's life. And I had to admit the the photo is very well realized. I still don't like it and I will never do... but I can accept that I was wrong giving it a 2. The picture was well planed... the photographer worked really hard to get that effect and succeded. It impressed me. Negatively, but it impressed me... it shocked me. So... I decided that until I don't learn more about the values of photography, I should not give more 1's and 2's.
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12/04/2003 11:15:14 AM · #11 |
This it is about if I like the picture or not. I have another mistake to be ashamed of... regarding meeting the subject of the competition.
I rated with a 5 somebody that had a very good picture. I left him a note, asking to send me a private message to explain me how did it met the challenge and he answered that he won't explain but after the competition is over. I did not changed my mark and after the competition I read the explanation. It was perfectly meeting the challenge. It was just my ignorance that didn't see it. I am talking about "Cross into the blue" from Propaganda challenge. I had no idea that the name he gave it was the recruitment slogan for the U.S. Air Force. |
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12/04/2003 12:11:08 PM · #12 |
| amazoneea, you are underestimating yourself. The feelings you call "my ignorance", and the "prejudices I had", are important and legitimate parts of the collective mindset of the voting group that challenge entrants are required to appeal to. If you don't understand how a photo fits the theme, then it is the photographer who has failed, not you. No one should ever feel "ashamed" because they don't understand how an image fits a challenge. It's OK to dislike a picture even if it is technically correct, and even if the photographer has put a lot of time and effort into. And if you don't like it, it is OK to give it a 1 or a 2. |
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12/04/2003 12:36:33 PM · #13 |
Willem,
I have two comments...
1-High numbers of 3 scores is not the norm.
The top images in most other challeges and my own images seem to have a more normal distribution. The pattern I see more often is an underabundance of scores in the 9s. That is, it is common for an image to get fewer 9s than 10s.
2-Your aromas entry should be DQed!
Then my 4th place entry would get the ribbon! :)
(Just kidding on #2. Yours is a very deserving winner.)
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