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04/15/2007 12:17:55 AM · #1 |
| Will try to be really careful here as I don't wish to violate any challenge rules. The thing is I'm just curious as to why the photographer's comments about their submissions aren't displayed during voting. Is it that it may interfere with objective voting of the image? I can appreciate this view but can't help but wonder if maybe a little better understanding of the intentions of the photographer would help avoid confusion.Of course maybe I'm just being dumb and the picture should be able to speak for itself. |
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04/15/2007 12:21:50 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by canary:
...the picture should be able to speak for itself. |
You nailed it! :-) |
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04/15/2007 12:22:36 AM · #3 |
* If you can't get the photographer's intentions from the photograph, then the photographer hasn't taken an effective photograph.
* Too easy to breach the anonymity of the submission.
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04/15/2007 12:22:48 AM · #4 |
No, it's not a dumb question at all. I've wished for the same sometimes. I am not entirely sure what the reason is why the photographer's comments are not displayed during voting, but I think it is because it could give away (even more) who the photographer is, and it might be used to try and influence voters in ways in which it would be better they were not influenced. The entries are supposed to be annonymous, and voting is supposed to be impartial, on the merits of the image as seen by the person voting.
But it sure would be nice sometimes to have the photographer's comments available :) |
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04/15/2007 12:24:03 AM · #5 |
I generally just want access to my photographer's comments during voting. Irksome sometimes that they're taken away from me for a week, especially if I stashed my editing notes there and there's a validation request.
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04/15/2007 12:24:58 AM · #6 |
How they edited it, where they were, what they were thinking, how many cousins they have.... none of that should have any impact on how you view and respond to the image you're voting on. You see the challenge description, the image and the title. Its up to the photographer to make that work and up to the voter to decide if they did it.
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04/15/2007 12:26:16 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
I generally just want access to my photographer's comments during voting. Irksome sometimes that they're taken away from me for a week, especially if I stashed my editing notes there and there's a validation request. |
If you know that you have your editing steps listed in your notes, and a validation request is sent out, you can just say: "PP steps as listed in the notes." If more information is needed, SC will contact you for further detail.
Actually, something to remember, images are less likely to receive validation requests if they have good pp notes with them. |
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04/15/2007 12:27:34 AM · #8 |
| I know. Just think a little background wouldn't necessarily interfere. Forgot about the anonymity rule.Anyway thanks for replies. Better go and try to be better prepared for next challenge. |
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04/15/2007 12:29:00 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by idnic:
How they edited it, where they were, what they were thinking, how many cousins they have.... none of that should have any impact on how you view and respond to the image you're voting on. You see the challenge description, the image and the title. Its up to the photographer to make that work and up to the voter to decide if they did it. |
IMVHO, overall I think you're right. I also know though that occasionally, just occasionally, I'd like to know what the photographer was thinking when he/she posted the image (and I don't mean, "What WAS she thinking?!?!?", I mean a serious, "What were they thinking here?") |
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05/10/2007 10:06:47 AM · #10 |
| I just voted on a challenge piece which clearly (and very effectively)represented a crash scene. Since I find this genre personally upsetting, I left comments based upon the face value of the shot (and justifying my low score vote!) Little did I know at the time it was a "staged" activity set at a local high school for educational purposes. I re-wrote my review, however I must say that I find the policy of NOT including the photographer's description with the contest photo an irresponsible one. I think the spirit of the challenge has been diminished by limiting that freedom. |
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05/10/2007 10:38:35 AM · #11 |
It would be interesting to see how many people who currently don't put anything in their comments would suddenly start writing long emotive essays because it could benefit *them*.
Another reason for not allowing it is the language barrier. Some people don't speak English as a first or even second language. Some who speak English as their first language are far more fluent than others. Some can write with a great deal of emotion, guaranteed to gain a point or two.
Too many ways to unlink the score from the photography.
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05/10/2007 10:57:45 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by onejumpjohnny:
I just voted on a challenge piece which clearly (and very effectively)represented a crash scene. Since I find this genre personally upsetting, I left comments based upon the face value of the shot (and justifying my low score vote!) Little did I know at the time it was a "staged" activity set at a local high school for educational purposes. I re-wrote my review, however I must say that I find the policy of NOT including the photographer's description with the contest photo an irresponsible one. I think the spirit of the challenge has been diminished by limiting that freedom. |
Actually I read this and I entirely disagree.
What you experienced was a valid reaction to the scene presented to you in the photograph. Reading the notes (before or afterwards) gives you a completely different reaction and, in my opinion, shows entirely why the notes should not be shown during voting. You're meant to vote on the image. If the photog wanted you to know it was staged there could have been a chap in the photo with a sign saying "this is a mock up". |
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05/10/2007 11:08:08 AM · #13 |
For anyone who wants to see their own notes during the challenge: open the page with your image and comments. Look at the lower right corner of your image, and you'll see a little icon that looks like a small document.
Point your mouse at that and don't click (clicking will open a page with a bunch of info about the challenge). A box will pop up with your notes.
Just learned that trick myself (thanks to whoever taught it to me, and sorry I can't remember!).
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05/11/2007 07:48:09 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
* If you can't get the photographer's intentions from the photograph, then the photographer hasn't taken an effective photograph.
* Too easy to breach the anonymity of the submission. |
Every photo is an island.........?
I just watched grigrigirls photo montages posted in this thread and realized that one: she's beyond amazing and two: she breaks the rules at a constant. At least the rules according to the general DPC voter....keeping things in context.
Now, seeing some of those rule breaking images in a Challenge, any number of them would get slammed but knowing who she is, what she does...or what she is trying to accomplish with her art, lends totally different meaning and perspective to the images on the whole.
I'm not pushing photographers comments, mind you but I do see a benefit from such knowledge. There are genius photo's that get easily passed by here at DPC for the more flashy....easy to digest lot, where a little help or education about the image or the photographer would be in order.
Museums and galleries offer information about the work they show...bios, lists of materials used....quotes from the artist, quotes from the critics, quotes from newpapers etc. to help lookers or even perspective buyers gain perspective.
For example, if you knew before you voted that an image was taken by xion, jjbeguin or grigrigirl would you not give it different consideration (and I don't mean preferentially) or time to sink in? That perhaps, would give you a greater understanding of the image...or at least key you in on the intent of the photographer, whether you like the photo or not.
How can anyone here say that they know just by looking at an image anonymously, whether or not the photographer made a bold artistic choice or a mistake (again, by the sites standards)? You really can't. I can't, anyway and I feel like I'm always at a loss as I go through the images and vote. Some people are good at this but I have no idea sometimes what I'm doing.
Just to clarify, this response was to those here that posted that a photo needs to stand on it's own. That might be the case in some instances but not as a blanket way to be looking.
Cheers
Message edited by author 2007-05-11 08:13:03. |
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05/11/2007 08:55:52 AM · #15 |
Steve - I think in the context of this thread it's about the challenges and what's available during voting.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
... There are genius photo's that get easily passed by here at DPC... |
During voting, a quick look is all that's given in many cases when there are hundreds of images to vote on. Subtlety in presentation is quite easily overlooked. The true genius photographers of challenge shooting/presentation are people like Shannon ( scalvert) that know how to address the specific viewing audience of DPChallenge voters.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Museums and galleries offer information about the work they show...bios, lists of materials used....quotes from the artist, quotes from the critics, ... |
DPChallenge profiles and portfolios offer this. Different ballgame than contest/challenge voting.
Lasting impressions of a photographer/artist can be had by browsing a portfolio and profile, as musuems/galleries entice a viewer to decide whether they will remember an individual photographer/artist in the days and years to come.
Challenges are targeting a subject and fast-paced audience rather than a general impression obtained via a casual stroll.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
... That perhaps, would give you a greater understanding of the image...or at least key you in on the intent of the photographer, whether you like the photo or not. |
The intent in a challenge entry is to impress and score highly in a very limited window of time with a specific theme. Hit or miss.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Just to clarify, this response was to those here that posted that a photo needs to stand on it's own. That might be the case in some instances but not as a blanket way to be looking. |
When a subject/topic/theme has been issued as part of the critiquing process, then the photo shouldn't need further clarification for the limited scope of challenge competiton. The photo, with slight aid from titling, should tell a story to the viewer based on the challenge theme. Either it connects or it doesn't.
edit for clarification on one point.
Message edited by author 2007-05-11 08:58:31. |
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