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 05/13/2002 03:29:53 AM · #1
it's hard for me to understand the voting methods on DP.
I thought that photography was NOT just about reproducing reality, but instead, to add to, alter, or to comment on reality.
I can't help noticing that maybe most of the voters are not out for creativity or originality, but for sheer technical perfection.
(example: personally, I thought that the winning photo of the advertisment challenge was just too much of a reproduction.. sorry. just a bit boring in my oppinion.)

another thing - how come SO MANY photographers used the subject of alcohol+beverages for their advertisments? ? ?


promote creative photography
 05/13/2002 03:41:41 AM · #2
What were you advertising in your photo? Yeah, artsy and creative is nice once in a while, but when a company tells you to sell a bottle of perfume for them and you come back with a photo of some pins and a test tube, they're gonna fire your ass.

There are challenges where creativity is more of a factor. I don't think this challenge was one of them.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/13/2002 3:49:01 AM.
 05/13/2002 03:50:45 AM · #3
ritaard, I had pretty much the same feeling last week. Even still, I decided to enter this week, and I'm interested in how I'll score. It seems to me that there are a handful of people here who want to do creative and exciting things with their photography, mixed in among a majority of people who care more about the technical side and are more appreciative of an ordinary or simple subject that is photographed well. Of course, both these camps encompass people of a wide range of abilities, and those who don't know much about photography vote according to their own knowledge. As a result, I think that people who do anything non-conformist are rated low because they aren't understood or appreciated by the majority of people on the site.

I've seen other posts on here in the past week or so saying the same thing in different words. I think lots of people have this feeling. This is in general a conservative site, but I think that there are enough interesting things going on at its fringes to stick around :) Oh, and I really liked your advertisement photo :). I gave it 9, even though I didn't 'get' it, because to me being difficult to understand or challenging does not make a photo 'bad'. Unfortunately, to most people it does.
 05/13/2002 03:53:21 AM · #4
I gave it 9, even though I didn't 'get' it, because to me being difficult to understand or challenging does not make a photo 'bad'. Unfortunately, to most people it does.

Remember people, this is a contest site with SPECIFIC challenges each week. It's not the standard "who can come up with the most obscure artsy pic" general pic-of-the-day joint..

 05/13/2002 04:02:01 AM · #5
Yeah, artsy and creative is nice once in a while, but when a company tells you to sell a bottle of perfume for them and you come back with a photo of some pins and a test tube, they're gonna fire your ass.


hhmmm I thought photography was supposed to be a form of art.
art is for free
 05/13/2002 04:06:20 AM · #6
joebar, every challenge that I have seen here (and I've looked through some archives as well) has included photos that interpreted it literally, those who went for a humorous twist, those who went creative, those who went subversive, those who went for shock value, etc. Who is to say that any of these are the 'wrong' way to participate in the challenge? People do photography for different reasons, for some it's to create images that reflect their own warped or unique view of the world, and if they participate in a challenge they'll interpret that challenge their own way as well. The literalists dominate, but that doesn't make them right.

Oh, and I gave you a 10, and expected you would win.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/13/2002 4:08:11 AM.
 05/13/2002 04:09:21 AM · #7
Your photo was one of my favorites last round, although it really didn't work as a product shot. If you want to submit to sites where the emphasis is more on photography and less on challenge guidelines, message me and I'll send you some URLs. You do very fine work.
 05/13/2002 04:20:40 AM · #8
If you want to submit to sites where the emphasis is more on photography and less on challenge guidelines, message me and I'll send you some URLs.
that would be perfect!!!
thanks! =)
05/13/2002 04:29:42 AM · #9
i too ama little dissapointed that on a site where there is obviously so much cretivity, a relatively dull picture won.

Don't get me wrong, its beautifuly taken but it lacks the imagination that so many others show.


Also, i still find it a little concerning that so many images used other peoples pictures (presumably without permission). I know it was agreed on the forums that you could ignore copyright rules when using products but I that as we all use the site it would have been pretty easy to ask permission for using images.
 05/13/2002 04:53:48 AM · #10
Originally posted by irae:
Your photo was one of my favorites last round, although it really didn't work as a product shot. If you want to submit to sites where the emphasis is more on photography and less on challenge guidelines, message me and I'll send you some URLs. You do very fine work.


dear Irae,
Would you mind help me to find some url, for some sites ? thank in advance "Robbie " Sebastien.
gesell@noos.fr
 05/13/2002 05:07:33 AM · #11
i claim to be creative
 05/13/2002 05:24:43 AM · #12
I'm more creative when I'm getting paid.
 05/13/2002 05:57:35 AM · #13
i kinda agree with joebar. there was a specific 'assignment' this week, for the purpose of teaching you about a specific aspect or niche of photography. it's like being told to write a 5 paragraph essay about the revolutionary war, but you turn in a haiku about public transportation; just doesn't work.

also, you can't generalize about the site like that. there have been some challenges that are more creatively interperable (sp?), like 'transitions' or 'curves', and others that are more literal, or technical. just my 2 cents.

congrats joe!
 05/13/2002 06:35:07 AM · #14
First, congratulations joebar! I knew what your photo was selling. It looked like it came right out of a magazine ad. Well done:)

*Some* photos there wasn't a clue as to what you were selling. The title can't save a photo..right? The salt was one of those. It was a creative photo and well done but salt wasn't the main focus. I would have to say the pins were. It was well done, yes but it was given a 9 because it was well done? ok

I'll just say....the voters voted...the numbers don't lie:)


 05/13/2002 11:48:30 AM · #15
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i kinda agree with joebar. there was a specific 'assignment' this week, for the purpose of teaching you about a specific aspect or niche of photography. it's like being told to write a 5 paragraph essay about the revolutionary war, but you turn in a haiku about public transportation; just doesn't work.

also, you can't generalize about the site like that. there have been some challenges that are more creatively interperable (sp?), like 'transitions' or 'curves', and others that are more literal, or technical. just my 2 cents.

congrats joe!


Thanks Mag & Shizzam


* This message has been edited by the author on 5/13/2002 11:52:39 AM.
 05/13/2002 11:50:56 AM · #16
Originally posted by irae:
Your photo was one of my favorites last round, although it really didn't work as a product shot. If you want to submit to sites where the emphasis is more on photography and less on challenge guidelines, message me and I'll send you some URLs. You do very fine work.


Exactly, it was a well composed beautiful photo but the challenge was to advertise something, and nobody had a damn clue what she was trying to advertise.

 05/13/2002 12:21:31 PM · #17
ritaard, I see your point. I really liked your photo (gave it an 8 i think). In general, I only loosly adhere to the challenge parameters when rating photos. Who am I to say that someone's interpretaion of a challenge is incorrect? But to some small degree, the success of a photo must be measured against the conditions of the challenge as best as the individual reviewer can see it . This challenge involved creating an image which sells something to someone. As far as the image itself, I think your photo came up a bit short in that arena. Certainly if it were being run as an ad in a magazine, you could slap on some text which wouie better tie in the photo to the product, but that wasn't an option here, so the photo had to be a bit more obvious in it's pitch, i.e. appealing to the lowest common comprehension denominator.

Also, while I place a premium on creativity in imagery, there are also other aspects of a photo which merit recognition. Taking a technically perfect photo can be as - if not more - challenging than taking a really unique and creative photo. So any rating of a photo must take into account both technical AND creative merit (as well as others).

Frankly, jobars photo was as damn near technically perfect as I have seen, and it fit the challenge criteria to a tee. I gave it a 10, and would have been shocked if it did not win.

In the end though, I really enjoy all of the wildly creative shots which are submitted, often knowing there is no chance in hell they will win anything. So dont worry so much about them damn ribbons, and just keep doing what you do best. Sure this site may not always 'get it', but then, i think the people and opinions here are a pretty sound reflection of the diversity found in society.

"Can't we all just get along???"
 05/13/2002 12:39:13 PM · #18
Well said, Moondoggie. My latest entry is my most creative and it may get my lowest scores. I think a lot of people are thinking it is faked but it is definitely not, I even made sure to take pictures of how I did it. It's difficult to be creative and mainstream at the same time. It's fun to see what people think but unfortunately the worse your picture does the less comments there are on it. Oh well, I'm really happy about it and considering I just made the deadline by 10 minutes. There was no way that I wanted to sit on the sidelines this week. I think I am obseesed with this site, thanks to Drew and Langdon. You guys made too good of a site.

Tim

 05/13/2002 01:27:58 PM · #19
Do you really want those of us on the site who are only voters and not photographers ourselves? Creativity is in the beholder and I do admire your abilities---I cannot even figure out how to use a throw a way camera from Wal Mart however when I vote and judge your work I do so not just based on creativity but on the criteria. I am harsh when I feel it is outside of the stated criteria but I think some of you may miss part of the objectivity of the site. My vote went for the JR beer because it represented to me a red neck cowboy coming in from work, sit down in his favor chair, tossed his hat on the table covered with a doilly made by his Mom or Grandma and to hell with fashion, it still goes on the table because they loved him enough to make it. Pours his beer and kicks back after a hard day. When I walked into a store that picture in my mind would cause me to remember the name of the product. Isn't that what advertisement is all about--to cause a customer to pick up the product and buy it? The winning picture was good but I do not remember the brand name of the watch and I have seen that picture at least three times. Look at it this way, if I give you a high vote you are going to lose.
 05/13/2002 01:29:05 PM · #20
ditto tim. my submission this week was also (re)posted at the last hour, and while the creative side of it is pretty weak, at least the technical part sucks. I got that goin' for me. ;?) But I'm just glad to have gotten something in for this week. Always interesting to see the variety of opinions generated by an image.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/13/2002 1:29:24 PM.
 05/13/2002 01:39:41 PM · #21
Originally posted by Ruth Skidmore:
Look at it this way, if I give you a high vote you are going to lose.

Please give all my photos a one from now on. ;-)
 05/13/2002 02:49:53 PM · #22
Originally posted by ritaard:
it's hard for me to understand the voting methods on DP.
I thought that photography was NOT just about reproducing reality, but instead, to add to, alter, or to comment on reality.


I really liked your photo. I thought it was very well done, and I had a suspicion it was a good advertisement shot for *something*, but I could not figure it out. I rated you pretty high, especially considering I had no way to decide whether or not it could be used to sell anything.

I think I would have done a couple of things differently if I were you. First, I would not have used the word "salt" in the title if the product was, in your mind, to be some sort of candy. Second, I probably would have used something colored rather than white, and would have tried to indicate better that it came from the test tube. I have never seen this sort of candy uncolored (but hey, I'm in America... I know in Germany the cotton candy is white, which is completely unheard of here).


I can't help noticing that maybe most of the voters are not out for creativity or originality, but for sheer technical perfection.
(example: personally, I thought that the winning photo of the advertisment challenge was just too much of a reproduction.. sorry. just a bit boring in my oppinion.)

another thing - how come SO MANY photographers used the subject of alcohol+beverages for their advertisments? ? ?


Some of us aren't at the level of technical expertise that you are, and we would like to concentrate on mastering the technical side of photography before we get carried away with anything artistic.


05/13/2002 02:55:29 PM · #23
That's an interesting point Ruth, and I totally understand your perspective : ) . The J.R. beer was definitely very unique, and had some non-generic 'brand' appeal.

So from that perspective that picture was a winner.

From a photographic perspective, though there may have been other pictures that had more visual pizazz.

So I guess it boils down to whether the majority of people are primarily judging based on visual attributes, or on creative interpretation.


Originally posted by Ruth Skidmore:
 05/13/2002 03:06:18 PM · #24
Originally posted by Ruth Skidmore:
Do you really want those of us on the site who are only voters and not photographers ourselves? Creativity is in the beholder and I do admire your abilities---I cannot even figure out how to use a throw a way camera from Wal Mart however when I vote and judge your work I do so not just based on creativity but on the criteria. I am harsh when I feel it is outside of the stated criteria but I think some of you may miss part of the objectivity of the site. My vote went for the JR beer because it represented to me a red neck cowboy coming in from work, sit down in his favor chair, tossed his hat on the table covered with a doilly made by his Mom or Grandma and to hell with fashion, it still goes on the table because they loved him enough to make it. Pours his beer and kicks back after a hard day. When I walked into a store that picture in my mind would cause me to remember the name of the product. Isn't that what advertisement is all about--to cause a customer to pick up the product and buy it? The winning picture was good but I do not remember the brand name of the watch and I have seen that picture at least three times. Look at it this way, if I give you a high vote you are going to lose.

Thanks Ruth for your vote (and vote of confidence). I really had fun doing that one, because I had my wife (Ruth) pouring the beer to get the head, then I would take a shot, drink the top off of the beer and wait for her to pour more beer. This process went on til the camera man was too happy to take more pictures (actually, I ran out of beer first!) BTW, my wife made the doilly, so it was just about as you said in your comments. I didn't have as much fun this week, but maybe I'll get a higher score!
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