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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Help with washed colors in DPC!!!
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01/19/2007 02:04:47 PM · #1
Hi, I have noticed lately that the image that I upload here doesn't look the same as in photoshop after I am done with it. After uploading it looks a bit washed.

Do you have any idea why?? Does it has to do with rezising? do you do more adjustments to your images after saving for web?

Thanks again.

Ivan
01/19/2007 02:06:04 PM · #2
Make sure you use the SRGB color space for editing and saving.
01/19/2007 02:10:48 PM · #3
View, Proof Setup, Custom, Select sRGB IEC6 1966-2.1, check the preserve RGB numbers box, hit Ok.
Now see if View, Proof colors is selected in the second drop-down. If so, you're all set.
01/19/2007 02:32:10 PM · #4
Originally posted by BradP:

View, Proof Setup, Custom, Select sRGB IEC6 1966-2.1, check the preserve RGB numbers box, hit Ok.
Now see if View, Proof colors is selected in the second drop-down. If so, you're all set.


Purely, purely out of curiousity, why? What does this do?
01/19/2007 02:58:08 PM · #5
It makes sure what you see on the screen is the same as what the web uses.
I think.
Dunno.
That's my story anyway, and seeing as it works, I'mma keep doing it.

01/19/2007 03:08:38 PM · #6
you pretty much just need to be sure the working color space is sRGB.

click 'edit' scroll down to 'color settings' and be sure the 'working space' is set to 'sRGB'.

as long as the color space on the camera is set to sRGB you shouldn't have any issues besides the gamma being different on MAC vs PC monitors.

this isn't neccessarily what you want if you're going to be proofing files for print though ( you need to know what color space the printer uses and proof for that ).

i'm no expert but i think the above is the setting you need to worry about when preparing web images or images that will be printed on a printer using the sRGB color space.
01/19/2007 03:21:31 PM · #7
OK.

I haven't figured out this colour-space thing. Need to do that.
01/19/2007 04:31:58 PM · #8
Thanks a lot. I will check those settings and come back to this thread later. I never had this problem before, maybe I made some changes without noticing.

Thanks for the advice
01/19/2007 06:12:36 PM · #9
if you're going to try to learn the color space thing - you'd better get a LARGE cup of coffee ;}

it's a pretty complicated subject - outside of the 'for web' stuff anyhow...

Originally posted by ursula:

OK.

I haven't figured out this colour-space thing. Need to do that.

01/19/2007 07:02:07 PM · #10
Originally posted by soup:

if you're going to try to learn the color space thing - you'd better get a LARGE cup of coffee ;}

it's a pretty complicated subject - outside of the 'for web' stuff anyhow...

Originally posted by ursula:

OK.

I haven't figured out this colour-space thing. Need to do that.


Ah, OK. Large coffee, comfy chair, learn colour-space :)
01/19/2007 08:55:14 PM · #11
Everyone here is right that you need to output your image to sRGB to prevent the web output from looking "washed out". The reason for that is that if you output an image to the web from a color space, like Adobe RGB (1998), that supports more colors than web graphics support then the additional colors will not be included, hence you get a "washed out" image.

Some folks say you need to do all your work in sRGB including capturing the image in sRGB in your camera and/or that you need to have proof setup set to sRGB throughout. Neither is required or desired.

What distinction that is not clearly made in this discussion is that you do not need to do that until the end when you produce the actual output image from a post processed master file.

That is an important distinction. That is because the post processed master file is to be used for ALL output files, print and web. The post processed master file should always be saved in a color space with the most colors and tones possible, much higher than just sRGB which is for web output only.

Even for images targeted for web output only will benefit from this approach because doing all post processing in high toned color spaces and in 16-bit color will convert to sRGB and look better than an image that was post processed for just sRGB and 8-bit processing from the beginning.

Here is the deal...

You want and should post process your image in a 'robust' color space and bit depth, like Adobe RGB (1998) and 16-bit in a lossless format like .tiff and save that as a post processed master file. Then, when making your web output graphic you convert to 8-bit, sRGB for a lossy .jpg for a DPC submission. The converted results will be better than if you did all processing in 8-bit, sRGB and .jpg from the start. It reduces tone related pixelation considerably for web graphics, you will not have .jpg artifacting added with each save and your prints still look great.
01/20/2007 03:36:30 AM · #12
Originally posted by stdavidson:


Here is the deal...

You want and should post process your image in a 'robust' color space and bit depth, like Adobe RGB (1998) and 16-bit in a lossless format like .tiff and save that as a post processed master file. Then, when making your web output graphic you convert to 8-bit, sRGB for a lossy .jpg for a DPC submission. The converted results will be better than if you did all processing in 8-bit, sRGB and .jpg from the start. It reduces tone related pixelation considerably for web graphics, you will not have .jpg artifacting added with each save and your prints still look great.


I process in 16-bit Adobe RGB or (more recently) ProPhoto RGB, but I never change the file format from RAW to .jpg, .tiff. or .psd until the end.

I do this because I've noticed that if I just click Save during the processing, it chooses .psd automatically, so it doesn't seem like there's a risk of copying over the original RAW file. Is there a disadvantage to keeping RAW format while postprocessing?

Message edited by author 2007-01-20 03:37:56.
01/20/2007 03:42:02 AM · #13
Originally posted by puzzled:


I do this because I've noticed that if I just click Save during the processing, it chooses .psd automatically, so it doesn't seem like there's a risk of copying over the original RAW file. Is there a disadvantage to keeping RAW format while postprocessing?


There is no way to save over the RAW file in Photoshop. It can't write RAW files. Saving to PSD is perfectly fine and will not lose any data, color or otherwise.

The only time you are working with RAW data is in the ACR part of Photoshop.

Message edited by author 2007-01-20 03:43:26.
01/20/2007 03:47:57 AM · #14
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:


There is no way to save over the RAW file in Photoshop. It can't write RAW files. Saving to PSD is perfectly fine and will not lose any data, color or otherwise.

The only time you are working with RAW data is in the ACR part of Photoshop.


Good to know! I've always suspected that when you process a RAW file after leaving ACR, you're really working on a .psd file (if you're using Photoshop), so that's when I stopped converting the file type early in the processing - 'cause it didn't seem to cause any problems. But if it's better for some reason to convert to .tiff for processing, I'd like to hear more about it.
01/20/2007 03:59:53 AM · #15
Originally posted by puzzled:

But if it's better for some reason to convert to .tiff for processing, I'd like to hear more about it.


No reason to go to TIFF, you're not gaining anything but more files. PSD can hold all the information a TIFF file can, plus some.
01/20/2007 12:48:25 PM · #16
Originally posted by stdavidson:

Everyone here is right that you need to output your image to sRGB to prevent the web output from looking "washed out". The reason for that is that if you output an image to the web from a color space, like Adobe RGB (1998), that supports more colors than web graphics support then the additional colors will not be included, hence you get a "washed out" image.

Some folks say you need to do all your work in sRGB including capturing the image in sRGB in your camera and/or that you need to have proof setup set to sRGB throughout. Neither is required or desired.

What distinction that is not clearly made in this discussion is that you do not need to do that until the end when you produce the actual output image from a post processed master file.

That is an important distinction. That is because the post processed master file is to be used for ALL output files, print and web. The post processed master file should always be saved in a color space with the most colors and tones possible, much higher than just sRGB which is for web output only.

Even for images targeted for web output only will benefit from this approach because doing all post processing in high toned color spaces and in 16-bit color will convert to sRGB and look better than an image that was post processed for just sRGB and 8-bit processing from the beginning.

Here is the deal...

You want and should post process your image in a 'robust' color space and bit depth, like Adobe RGB (1998) and 16-bit in a lossless format like .tiff and save that as a post processed master file. Then, when making your web output graphic you convert to 8-bit, sRGB for a lossy .jpg for a DPC submission. The converted results will be better than if you did all processing in 8-bit, sRGB and .jpg from the start. It reduces tone related pixelation considerably for web graphics, you will not have .jpg artifacting added with each save and your prints still look great.


Steve, thanks for the help and good explanation. I will try that from now on.
01/20/2007 12:49:21 PM · #17
Amy and Leroy, thanks for your inputs to this thread.
02/23/2007 06:43:40 PM · #18
I'm having a similar type problem: Dull colors ...

Anyone else? I've tried about five different color spaces and none seem to work.
02/23/2007 07:30:00 PM · #19
Using Photoshop to Prepare Images for DPC

This covers all of the sRGB/Adobe stuff in a method that's easy to follow.
02/24/2007 12:34:06 AM · #20
Well, I've pretty much come to the conclusion it's a bug in CS3. I've tried countless conversion methods, color profiles, etc. and none have worked. I don't have a problem on CS2. Hopefully this is something they can correct. Anyone else having any luck with the Save for Web in CS3?
02/24/2007 01:34:14 AM · #21
OK ... think I finally figured it out. It seems that the traditional sRGB IEC61966-2.1 cannot be used on CS3 beta, at least not for me. I got RGB - Color LCD to reproduce the colors the most accurate. Every other color space gave me washed out results. I'm working on a MacBook by the way.

Thanks for putting up with this :)
02/24/2007 05:14:10 PM · #22
I'm having a similar problem with RAW files only. If I shoot in jpg my colors are fine. But when I import a RAW image from either the PS CS2 RAW pluggin or Lightroom, I get extreme color screwup like you can see here.


When I use Nikon Capture for my RAWs I don't have that problem.

I didn't bother with this b4. I would just adjust my RAWs in Capture, save as jpg or tiff and do my pp in PS CS2.

But now I would love to use Lightroom for my workflow. But only if I can solve this problem. Lightroom is the coolest software and I would hate not solving this issue.

Thanks for your imput!
02/24/2007 05:25:47 PM · #23
post this in the lightroom discussion. i'm curious to know the cause as i'm about to DL LR ASAP.. keeping with the acronyms theme of course :}

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=550220

Message edited by author 2007-02-24 17:28:01.
02/24/2007 07:31:59 PM · #24
Thanks for this thread. I just switched to Mac from Windows last week and I use CS3 and as soon as I pressed Save for Web the colors immediately became washed out. I tried everything I could think of. Now at least I know it wasn't me.
02/25/2007 07:57:40 PM · #25
Julie,
Did the RGB - Color LCD color space work for you?
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