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01/15/2007 02:12:57 PM · #1
2 things...

I am reopening the troll voting case...

I feel that 1, you cannot vote in a challeng that you have entered, I personally make it a point not to vote in challenges that I have entered due to bias.

Also, 2, I feel that you should have to enter a challenge before you are givin voting privlages.

Let me know your thoughts on this. I may just be stupid for bringing this up.
01/15/2007 02:15:06 PM · #2
Originally posted by GueDesigns:

I may just be stupid for bringing this up.


Nah... but this thread is likely to get stupid soon... good luck :-)
01/15/2007 02:19:49 PM · #3
I was just wondering when the next thread on this subject would appear - but I didn't have to wonder long it seems :)
01/15/2007 02:24:41 PM · #4
::sigh:: If people expressed as much concern over the undeserved 10s they get as they do 1s we wouldn't be having these discussions.

Human nature is so amusing sometimes. Retorically speaking, if you want to know where the trolls are then look no further than your own voting patterns.
01/15/2007 02:25:28 PM · #5
1. Limiting voting rights will discourage voters. There are no outlier votes that don't even out in the end. People will vote how they feel, as a participent in the challenge or not. And anyone voting others down to increase their own score either won't have a huge effect amid the multi-hundreds of other votes, or will be caught by the SC and removed.

2. Some people prefer to vote and view and learn instead of enter. I don't have a problem with this. They are just as likely to vote you higher than someone who has entered as they are to vote you lower.

Finally, not directed at the OP so much as the whole issue in general: people vote and you may not always like how. If someone thinks that your entry deserves a 1, for reasons right, wrong, or indifferent, then deal with it. It won't have that huge an effect, and it's just an online challenge in any case. Furthermore, if everyone spent as much time voting or shooting as they do worrying about how everyone else votes, a lot more good would be accomplished around here. I'm saying this as nicely as I can - this isn't kindergarten, people; stop worrying about what your neighbor is doing, and just enjoy your time on site.
01/15/2007 02:26:30 PM · #6
show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.

01/15/2007 02:31:47 PM · #7
Originally posted by Megatherian:

show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.


If there were no "trolls", there would be no need for the "scrubbing" program cleaning out erratic voting patterns at the end of each challenge. The question would be why there is such reluctance to try to improve the integrity of the voting process when it is apparently flawed enough to generate threads like this with such frequency?
01/15/2007 02:35:15 PM · #8
I really appreciate the feedback, Other people have different views on how to vote. I am not complaining on the votes I am receiving, only concerned with the talk about the extreme low scores in the start, only to move its way up at the end.
01/15/2007 02:38:58 PM · #9
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by Megatherian:

show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.


If there were no "trolls", there would be no need for the "scrubbing" program cleaning out erratic voting patterns at the end of each challenge. The question would be why there is such reluctance to try to improve the integrity of the voting process when it is apparently flawed enough to generate threads like this with such frequency?


I'm not convinced there is a way to "improve the integrity of the voting process." Even after the scrubbing program removes the obvious erratic votes (I'd be curious to know how many users are caught on average per challenge - probably a rare event), there are still votes that people don't like. And that's what it comes down to; they don't like them. And because of that, all sort of alteration is suggested, which in the end has more of an impact on the frequent, honest user than it will ever have on the "trolls."
01/15/2007 02:39:42 PM · #10
I don't really care how many trolls and pixies there are. (Pixies would be those who vote high on everything). Whatever way people vote is up to them...so long as its consistent.
01/15/2007 02:42:06 PM · #11
Originally posted by GueDesigns:

I really appreciate the feedback, Other people have different views on how to vote. I am not complaining on the votes I am receiving, only concerned with the talk about the extreme low scores in the start, only to move its way up at the end.

This has been addressed before, too. :-) Many voters use systems where the lump images into catagories in their first passes. For example, and image might be assigned either a 3, a 5, or a 7 on the first pass, then when the voter has lumped them all like that, they go back and revaluate each image and adjust it's score to lie somewhere in it's range, for a more even distribution. In this way, images originally lumped as 3s or 5s can end up as 4s, 5s, 6s, etc.
01/15/2007 02:42:54 PM · #12
I see it as my right as a paid member to vote on any challenge whether I've entered it or not. I also feel it is my right to use the whole range from 1 to 10 as I see fit on any photo in a challenge.

I have never voted lower than a 3 in all the challenges I have voted on. However, should I wish to do so, I will, maybe that would make me a troll. My average vote cast is 5 and votes range from 3 to 10. I revisit photos in challenges and alter scores two or three times if I possibly can, but even then I usually bump scores rather than taking them down.

So, perhaps I could be called a troll, but if I vote lots of 10s, does this make me a 'Supertroll'? I think this topic has been raised more times than the Titanic. Can we now let it drop?

Steve

Message edited by author 2007-01-15 14:43:39.
01/15/2007 02:43:28 PM · #13
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by Megatherian:

show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.


If there were no "trolls", there would be no need for the "scrubbing" program cleaning out erratic voting patterns at the end of each challenge. The question would be why there is such reluctance to try to improve the integrity of the voting process when it is apparently flawed enough to generate threads like this with such frequency?


Exactly, the system looks for pattern voting and those people get suspended / banned.

If they are so rampant on the site as to make a statistically significant difference in the votes on this site then show me 5. With all the members on this site how hard could that be. If you want me to support making changes to the site to fix a "problem" then I need proof there is a problem in the first place.
01/15/2007 02:48:51 PM · #14
It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't! It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!It does! It doesn't!

GO TO YOUR ROOM!
01/15/2007 02:48:59 PM · #15
OK, OK, :) Forget I brought it up, everyone brings up a great point :)
01/15/2007 02:53:45 PM · #16
That's easy. Just find some folks with a average vote given well under 4 and you got your trolls. You'll also notice those folks have a much higher received average. Not going to point fingers, but they are out there........Lol

Originally posted by Megatherian:

show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.
01/15/2007 03:04:25 PM · #17
Originally posted by GueDesigns:

Also, 2, I feel that you should have to enter a challenge before you are givin voting privlages.


I never understood why this hasn't already been in practice. I think it should be a requirement for newbies to have entered at least a couple of challenges before they can vote. That would at least make whatever cheating is going on a bit more difficult.
01/15/2007 03:09:22 PM · #18
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by GueDesigns:

Also, 2, I feel that you should have to enter a challenge before you are givin voting privlages.


I never understood why this hasn't already been in practice. I think it should be a requirement for newbies to have entered at least a couple of challenges before they can vote. That would at least make whatever cheating is going on a bit more difficult.

My wife likes to vote sometimes, but has never entered a challenge. She used to vote using my account, but that nearly gave the SC a heart attack over rules violations, so I bought her an account so she wouldn't be limited as to what challenges she could vote on. The SC also get pretty rank if you want to cut off sources of DPC revenue.
:-)
01/15/2007 03:10:30 PM · #19
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by GueDesigns:

Also, 2, I feel that you should have to enter a challenge before you are givin voting privlages.


I never understood why this hasn't already been in practice. I think it should be a requirement for newbies to have entered at least a couple of challenges before they can vote. That would at least make whatever cheating is going on a bit more difficult.

My wife likes to vote sometimes, but has never entered a challenge. She used to vote using my account, but that nearly gave the SC a heart attack over rules violations, so I bought her an account so she wouldn't be limited as to what challenges she could vote on. The SC also get pretty rank if you want to cut off sources of DPC revenue.
:-)


Ok ok then make it a requirement that you must purchase 5 prints from Mr. yanko. Would that be a fair compromise?
01/15/2007 03:10:34 PM · #20
Originally posted by ace flyman:

That's easy. Just find some folks with a average vote given well under 4 and you got your trolls. You'll also notice those folks have a much higher received average. Not going to point fingers, but they are out there........Lol

Originally posted by Megatherian:

show me PROOF of 5 trolls and I'll discuss this thread with you.

I contend there are no trolls, only differences of opinion.


Really? Where? Every profile I click has an average vote >4. The only one's I've seen much lower than that in the last 2 years are from people who hardly vote.

In order to be a Troll not only do you have to have a low average, you also have make a difference in the total which means you have to vote A LOT. Even then if "the troll" gave all 1's their single vote wouldn't affect very much at all in the final outcome. You'd need Troll gangs of 10-15 people at least to make much difference and even then they'd need to vote in A LOT of challenges to make much difference in the site.

From the challenges on the front page look through them and find me 5 trolls (I'm not even talking the 10-15 needed to make a tiny difference - just 5).
01/15/2007 03:16:37 PM · #21
A vote is an opinion -- it can be different, but not wrong.
01/15/2007 03:18:16 PM · #22
As a newbie (and apparently as my name suggests a pixie!! lol)I wouldn't have been at all offended by a rule stating that you need to have done a couple of challenges before you can vote. To be honest I have voted on a couple of challenges and not given anything below a 5. That is because I am not a confident photographer and quite new to photography and all the photo's look pretty good to me. The more I am on the site the more I come to understand the lower scores and the reasons for them, looking at the flaws in the photo that I might not of noticed before. One of the reasons I voted was because I felt a need to contribute a little bit to the DPC community, not to feel so much of a hanger on with no real opinions or input.
01/15/2007 03:22:19 PM · #23
Originally posted by David.C:

A vote is an opinion -- it can be different, but not wrong.


What if it's a monkey slapping on the keyboard?
01/15/2007 03:22:56 PM · #24
Originally posted by yanko:



What if it's a monkey slapping on the keyboard?


Quit talking about me!

:-P
01/15/2007 03:23:46 PM · #25
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by David.C:

A vote is an opinion -- it can be different, but not wrong.


What if it's a monkey slapping on the keyboard?


As long as it is a paid up member, it can slap as hard as it likes!
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