1''s and 10''s..revisited - DPChallenge Forums

05/11/2002 10:02:08 AM · #1

Considering we have a 10 point scale it would be very helpful if folks who vote on the extremes would make a comment to go with their vote of a 1 or a 10.

That at least identifies the voter so we can view their contributions and guage our technique and style to theirs.

I mean..This is a learning site and knowing what was it about your photograph that caused such a strong reaction either positive or negative from a voter (and maybe their stylistic preferences as reflected in their contributions) would go a long way in helping us in technique.

I make it a habit to at least comment on my top 10 photos (whatever numerical score I gave them) and other photos that struck a chord with me.

I have even seen it discussed here that a vote of 1 or 10 would require a comment before being posted.

It just goes a long way in helping us do what were here to do..learn to photograph with digital cameras.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/11/2002 10:03:21 AM.

05/11/2002 10:23:30 AM · #2

I think this is the last thing I would want to do... I post my photos here in hopes of doing well, but I don't think I would want to modify my style much to suit other's tastes...

Originally posted by hokie:

That at least identifies the voter so we can view their contributions and guage our technique and style to theirs.

05/11/2002 10:35:14 AM · #3

What I mean is that I could see if their style of photography is more black and white oriented, action, oversaturated..whatever.

I just think I like knowing what motivates people to feel the way they do. It helps me to see how my images are being received.

We obviously take photos because we like an idea but we obviously post here to see what that image does to other folks.

If someone votes a 5 then that probably has mediocre response but if I see a 1's or 10's that means there is an element that made that person react and I want to know.

That is, if the voter has the guts to speak his mind ;-)
Ori
ginally posted by jmsetzler:
I think this is the last thing I would want to do... I post my photos here in hopes of doing well, but I don't think I would want to modify my style much to suit other's tastes...

Originally posted by hokie:
[i]
That at least identifies the voter so we can view their contributions and guage our technique and style to theirs.

[/i]

05/11/2002 10:41:42 AM · #4

I partially agree with you but I believe that there are other motivations here behind low votes...

05/11/2002 11:22:17 AM · #5

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I partially agree with you but I believe that there are other motivations here behind low votes...

Well, that is what got me started. I see so many great sites that start with such potential get mired in mediocrity when they turn into nothing but a surfer site.

Surfer sites are where people have little invested of themselves other than a casual point and click.

I applaud the "how did they do that" part of the site but really don't trust the "anonymous brickthrower" aspect of the site.

That's just my peronality. I like the back and forth of opinions as much as the creation of an image.

05/11/2002 11:52:23 AM · #6

I'm not too worried about the vote here. All I look for is constructive comments. I usually get two or three constructive comments each week. I would like to get more of those and maybe I will one day. I don't care about winning or losing on this site. Sure, winning would be nice, but my objective is to consistently post photos that are in the top 20% of the totals. I have done that so far with the exception of my current advertisement photo. I don't think it's gonna make that level in the vote this week. After I look at everything that is here, I think my own photo is mediocre. I would rate it a 5 compared to the rest.

I am learning things here though. I'm learning how to critique a photo. One of the things that pulls my chain worse than the one votes is the critical nature of some of the comments I see and receive. I really believe some photographers and voters are digging pretty deep to find something to be critical about on these photos. A large majority of the comments are coming from photographers. I don't believe the voters spend much time making comments at all.

joebar

05/11/2002 11:55:09 AM · #7

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I partially agree with you but I believe that there are other motivations here behind low votes...

I think jmsetzler is right on track... I just got a one-word comment, "blurry", after receiving several comments on how sharp and clean my image was.. Pretty sure it was a 1 or 2 vote as my average jumped down a good amount. Some people are just a-holes :)

joebar

05/11/2002 11:57:15 AM · #8

I think all votes of 1 or 2, and 9 or 10 must require a comment. Problem with this is a lot of people will be putting in "aldskfasldkfjkl" for their comment if it's mandatory.

05/11/2002 12:07:38 PM · #9

Originally posted by joebar:
I think all votes of 1 or 2, and 9 or 10 must require a comment. Problem with this is a lot of people will be putting in "aldskfasldkfjkl" for their comment if it's mandatory.

Joebar...I agree.

But..even if they put a "blah, blah, blah" beside their vote we get to see the who the voter was and determine if its just an anonymous surfer/brick thrower who bashes everybody or somebody who contributes and has a style we just differ on and we might get soemthing from the exchange.

I am just getting to be an old geezer I guess but I teach my daughter that if you're gonna feel strongly about something, stand up for it. You'll help your thinking by forming concise reasoning behind your opinions, you'll help others by showing you care enough to participate and you'll help the process by contributing in a constructive manner.

I do not encourage her to be anonymous, espcially if she has strongly held beliefs.

As far as winning or losing..thats not why I am here. I am here for comments and exchange of technique and ideas.
That doesn't mean I take the typcial anonymous internet behaviour any better though ;-)

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/11/2002 12:08:08 PM.

lisae

Olympus C-720UZ

05/11/2002 12:13:19 PM · #10

Well, I've voted on 2 challenges now, and I've submitted a photo for the upside down one (I expect to score low for the fact that I have a really low end camera though :/).

What I've found with my voting is that I really wanted to comment on the first 40 or so photos, regardless of what I thought, but after that ended up feeling like I was saying the same things over and over again. If I felt like there was something that bothered me, I pointed it out. If I thought it was a really cool photo, I said so. I can really gush praise when I feel like it :). But after I got tired of commenting, both times, it took me a lot of effort to even comment on the ones I gave 10s, let alone the ones I disliked enough to rate low.

Commenting is difficult enough for enthusiastic people like me... I don't think people should be pressured to do it.

05/11/2002 12:14:10 PM · #11

Nothing should be mandatory... I would not care to see a forced comment. If someone doens't feel compelled to comment on my photo, I would just rather them leave that blank...

Originally posted by joebar:
I think all votes of 1 or 2, and 9 or 10 must require a comment. Problem with this is a lot of people will be putting in "aldskfasldkfjkl" for their comment if it's mandatory.

shortredneck

Olympus C-3000Z

05/11/2002 12:25:00 PM · #12

I too do not like mandatory rules on comments.

irae

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 I

05/11/2002 12:28:45 PM · #13

I dunno... I think requiring a comment that justifies a score of 1, 2, 9 or 10 might make people pause and think a little before giving them out. Votes in that range with comments like 'sux' could be neutralized. Votes from 3 - 8 could still be anonymous. Everybody wins except Our Two Young Heroes, who'd have to read and judge all the required comments.

05/11/2002 12:53:05 PM · #14

Originally posted by irae:
I dunno... I think requiring a comment that [i]justifies a score of 1, 2, 9 or 10 might make people pause and think a little before giving them out. Votes in that range with comments like 'sux' could be neutralized. Votes from 3 - 8 could still be anonymous. Everybody wins except Our Two Young Heroes, who'd have to read and judge all the required comments.
[/i]

Irae...that's exactly what I think.

I don't want to turn my pet peeve into some kind of crusade. Ultimately if I feel the challenges and this site provide no worthwhile exchange beyond a vote of 1-10 I'll end up not contributing as much. Numbers mean nothing to me without some context behind them. There are many other sites that offer that kind of limited feedback.

I have always viewed this site as a digital photo classroom more than a pop photo contest. That may be my own misinterpretation

But thats my take and mine alone. But, true to my previous words. I'll comment openly :-)

05/11/2002 01:00:14 PM · #15

I guess i'm just not as worried about my score.. If you force a comment, I feel that you will get garbage. Do you really think that forcing a comment will eliminate the number of low votes you get?

irae

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 I

05/11/2002 01:11:46 PM · #16

The idea is that if the comment doesn't justify a score of 1, 2, 9 or 10, then the score won't count. Garbage won't cut it. Really not after a change in the votes - just want to hear from the people with extremely positive or negative reactions to a photo.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I guess i'm just not as worried about my score.. If you force a comment, I feel that you will get garbage. Do you really think that forcing a comment will eliminate the number of low votes you get?

Amphian

Nikon Coolpix 880

05/11/2002 01:15:50 PM · #17

I'd rather not have forced comments either. I have probably been very lucky, but the comments I have gotten have mostly been positive or constructive criticism. With the jumps my score has taken, I have got to have been given some ones, and I don't really want to have the people who do that for kicks commenting "lame, sux, & U R uglie".

For my part, I'd never DQ a photo that was poorly shot and totally lacking any connection to the challenge, I'd simply give it a one. I don't want to have to run down a list of what is wrong with it to vote.

Amphian

Nikon Coolpix 880

05/11/2002 01:17:41 PM · #18

Originally posted by irae:
The idea is that if the comment doesn't justify a score of 1, 2, 9 or 10, then the score won't count. Garbage won't cut it. Really not after a change in the votes - just want to hear from the people with extremely positive or negative reactions to a photo.

Who is going to read through all these comments and decide whether or not to let the vote count? I'd really like to see the results of a challenge in less than a month's time. :-)

05/11/2002 01:36:48 PM · #19

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I guess i'm just not as worried about my score.. If you force a comment, I feel that you will get garbage. Do you really think that forcing a comment will eliminate the number of low votes you get?

jmstzler...I think you are missing my point.

It's not about getting low or high votes. I take a heck of a lot of photos every week that have nothing to do with this site or even displaying them. I do it for my own fun of experimentation with my digital camera.

This site is only a part of my photographic experiences and I take time to particpate here to get feedback, a sense that there are others out there struggling over the same ideas.

Actually, If I had my way, I'd be more strict about participation, limiting it to contributors so we could compare and share more info openly contributiong to a more classroom environment. But I am just one person with one opinion. But that opinion is what drives my motivation here.

If you are right and there are ulterior motives like being an a$$hole or they are ignorant about the site or whatever then I don't have any hesitation to making them jump through a hoop to satisfy their urges ;-)

05/11/2002 01:54:28 PM · #20

Originally posted by Amphian:
I'd rather not have forced comments either. I have probably been very lucky, but the comments I have gotten have mostly been positive or constructive criticism. With the jumps my score has taken, I have got to have been given some ones, and I don't really want to have the people who do that for kicks commenting "lame, sux, & U R uglie".

For my part, I'd never DQ a photo that was poorly shot and totally lacking any connection to the challenge, I'd simply give it a one. I don't want to have to run down a list of what is wrong with it to vote.

I guess what it boils down to Amphian is I don't participate here to hear from folks who don't care enough to give a thought out vote or particpate with a photo. That may not sit well with everybody here but it's just one mans opinion.

There are lots of sites on the net that allow that kind of photo pop contest voting.

For instance, If I saw Irae vote a 1 and he said "boring" and I went to his profile and saw his photos that alone would give me a lot of information on why he thought the photo was boring.

He has a certain style. His style is not mine (even though I plan on stealing a few of his ideas ) but I like it very much and can understand where he is coming from.

That is helpful.

jmsetzler has a certain style and if he voted a 3 and said "I like the idea here but the lighting seemed way off" and I went to his profile and saw his photos I could surmise where he was coming from. I mention him because he has a unique style that I like.

That helps me. It allows me to feel a certain community.

But having some anonymous, non-contributing web surfers who just like to wander the net voting 1's or even 10's on sites like this adds nothing to my experience and I feel detracts from the site.

Like this discussion. I come here for this. If I could not get this exchange I would more than likely move on to somewhere else. I am even thinking about starting a local digital photo club where we have a monthly challenge so I can get some face to face discussions.

Thats the kind of thing I am talking about.

05/11/2002 02:50:09 PM · #21

Hokie,

I'm not missing your point.. I know what you are saying.. I'm just saying that forcing a comment isn't gonna change anything, IMHO. If you KNOW where your low vote came from and you don't think you deserved it, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna send emails? It's water under the bridge at that point... Are you gonna ask that a voter be banned from the site? I'm just curious about where you would go with that information if you had it...

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/11/2002 03:18:40 PM · #22

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Hokie,

I'm not missing your point.. I know what you are saying.. I'm just saying that forcing a comment isn't gonna change anything, IMHO. If you KNOW where your low vote came from and you don't think you deserved it, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna send emails? It's water under the bridge at that point... Are you gonna ask that a voter be banned from the site? I'm just curious about where you would go with that information if you had it...

I wouldn't go anywhere with it.

What is interesting is that when you ask people to do more than a drive by vote they will just keep driving.

There are lots of drive-by-vote-for-your-favorite-photo sites on the net and they don't appeal to me. I know they appeal to many other folks but I am looking for interaction.

This may be my whole problem in this discussion. That the anonymous pop vote stuff doesn't meet enough of what I am looking for.

Just because I have some dfferent opnion doesn't mean it isn't great for other folks and I know that.

Anybody know of sites where contributors who participate are the the only voters and anonymity is not so important?

That may be what I am looking for and I am unfairly asking this site to be soemthing different.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/11/2002 3:19:23 PM.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

05/11/2002 03:21:41 PM · #23

I think I only want comments from those who have something to say, hopefully constructive.

But if we're going to use a numerical ranking system, I'd hope there's some statistics guru out there who could devise a valid method of discounting (by either lopping them off or underweighting) isolated 1's and 10's to eliminate being penalized by abberant, random, fraudulent, or vindictive votes, especially those unsupported by a relevant comment.

That's what I do in my mind anyway. I've not given any photo here a 1 (completely devoid of any meaning, interest, or artistic merit). I can't remember if I've given any 10's (perfect), although I vote a LOT of 7-8 and a few 9's. I try to comment a lot, but put the most into those I score 6-8, to let them know what bothered me enough not not give them an 8-9.

I think most folks I score 2-3 would surmise I just didn't like their photo much -- I'll put a comment if I find it completely offensive or inappropriate. One's I score 4-5 are the hardest to comment on, because it usually requires a more detailed explanation, and if I'm tired or rushed I often skip those.

Unfortunately, the way the voting is structured, it's most important to register a numerical vote on every entry (for fairness), and the educational exchange suffers somewhat.

05/11/2002 03:26:53 PM · #24

try www.digitalphotocontest.com

pnicholls