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10/02/2006 03:08:49 PM · #1
Well my last two pictures have been shellacked pretty bad. Some people seem to love them, but most hate them. =/

Heres from Abstract Macro, which I really spent a long time chosing, composing and processing.



And here was from the Zen Challenge:



Now both of these got sub 5's, and in the Abstract Macro I was only in the 3rd percentile. =.( I would desperately like to improve - it kind of well makes me not want to enter more competitions - the only thing saving me is the nice comments I've gotten, because I feel like I've connected with at least some people. However, the nice comments haven't really helped me identify what other people that obviously don't like my pictures think about them.

Here is kind of a weird split:
Avg (commenters): 8.0000
Avg (camera): 4.4841

And my other one had 1 favorite, and a sub 5 score.

Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:16:27.
10/02/2006 03:12:16 PM · #2
Your links aren't working.


Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:13:16.
10/02/2006 03:12:35 PM · #3
Doh!

Missing the pictures

<edit>: Thanks for the help! Only saw the image and hyperlink, so I really linked it to the thumbnail. ;)

Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:17:08.
10/02/2006 03:13:55 PM · #4
They are not clickable. Use the second icon from the right in your message window and enter just the image number.
10/02/2006 03:20:41 PM · #5
Originally posted by Julolidine:

I would desperately like to improve - it kind of well makes me not want to enter more competitions - the only thing saving me is the nice comments I've gotten, because I feel like I've connected with at least some people. However, the nice comments haven't really helped me identify what other people that obviously don't like my pictures think about them.


There's the rub. While the nice comments will keep you going, you need to pay attention to the negative comments -- that's how you will learn.

And don't worry. I've had several entries I felt were my best, only to get shot down in the scoring. The voting isn't objective, and you need to play to the masses to get the best score. Look at previous challenge results (especially when the topic is being re-used) to see what makes a winner.
10/02/2006 03:22:49 PM · #6
If some people love your pictures, you are doing something right. Appealing to everyone is not an important goal.
10/02/2006 03:24:28 PM · #7
Keep shooting what you want, the way you want to. Decide what it is you like, and stick to working on that by shooting it.

PS - I like your pictures, but it doesn't matter what I think.
10/02/2006 03:27:17 PM · #8
The question that has remained unasked is:

Do you want to be a better photographer, or do you want better scores here?

Those at times can be completely different beasts.
10/02/2006 03:32:44 PM · #9
For me, the zen challenge was not about photographing a quiet place but about simplicity and peace within the shot. While this is an abandoned site, the playground equipment makes me think of children and activity not peace. The composition is OK, but there nothing that makes it special. Maybe early morning/late evening or a different angle would have added interest.

The abstract macro met the challenge, but I think using a tripod and getting sharper focus would have helped.

Don't give up now--it may not seem like it, but practice does lead to improvement. Look at photos you like, see if you can tell how they did it, read the comments and see if they give you ideas on how to improve. Experiment and try some new technique every week (different f-stop, shutter speed, angle, lighting, etc.) Also remember to develop a style YOU enjoy. This may or may not be what wins on DPC, but will give you a sense of satisfaction. Even voting and commenting on challenges will help you learn what you like and don't like. It may be a long road (for me it is, anyway) but I am enjoying the process.
10/02/2006 03:35:45 PM · #10
i agree with fotomann forever, figure out what you want , i personally go with the better photographer, but i learn as i go from the website and from the comments i am given, slowly and steadily i will hopefully get there , i don't know myabe after 1000 challenges:P:)
10/02/2006 03:38:55 PM · #11
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

The question that has remained unasked is:

Do you want to be a better photographer, or do you want better scores here?

Those at times can be completely different beasts.


But you can try to do both :)

I guess, seriously, what I'm trying to say is that even though at times these two (being a better photographer/getting better scores at DPC) are completely different beasts, they do not need to be exclusive.

Another way to say the same thing (or something similar at least) is, working on getting better scores can help to improve your photography. Getting good scores here doesn't make you a bad photographer.



Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:42:32.
10/02/2006 03:42:03 PM · #12
It has taken me a long time to improve my average but that does not mean I have improved my photography skill, even though I think I have. A few things I have learned are that you can’t rely on the photograph and editing alone, they must go hand-in-hand to bring a raw picture to life. I also have learned that when editing there is a fine line between making and breaking the photograph.

The best I can offer you is this; plan you shot (composition, point of view, lighting, etc.) as if you will not be able to post process it at all. Then only use post processing to enhance you photographs to give them the look you wanted to convey. Do go overboard and don’t be afraid of going to the limit. But one thing has become very clear to me, no amount of processing will fix a foiled shot.

10/02/2006 03:46:11 PM · #13
Originally posted by ursula:


Another way to say the same thing (or something similar at least) is, working on getting better scores can help to improve your photography. Getting good scores here doesn't make you a bad photographer.


No, indeed not... I hope I didn't imply that.
10/02/2006 03:51:02 PM · #14
I also suggest that you make comments. This forces you to put into words what you like or dislike about a photo, which in turn will help develop your own sense of style, your own vision. Without a vision, you have no direction in which to "improve."
10/02/2006 03:51:35 PM · #15
Well, I have little to no room to talk as I just got my first SLR camera a month ago and am just learning. But as this site will attest, everyone has an opinion (which does not make anyone right btw).

So, even though my two first submissions after joining last week are both getting beaten down badly (mid-upper 4's), I will give one (my) viewer's opinion on the photos above as to what I would have like to have seen:

The abstrack macro looks nice in its thumbnail size, but when it is blown to presentation size, the entire photo appears to be out of focus. I'm not sure if it is due to the photo or the resolution of enlarging it, but regardless, I think if it had been a sharper image, the image would have been received much better by the viewer.

For the Zen picture. Zen to me says that I should be in a state of calm, pleasantness (word?), or tranquility. Even a state of Euphoria may apply. When I view this picture, it appears as what I believe you or another poster described, abandoned. It feels desolate to me which conveys a sense of sorrow or longing for contact with someone/something. It is a nice shot, nothing that I can really see wrong with it. it just, to me , does not make me move towards a state of "Zen".

Once again, just my opinion, and based on my entry scores, I've got a lot of room for improvement (but that's why I joined).

Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:52:38.
10/02/2006 03:54:12 PM · #16
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by ursula:


Another way to say the same thing (or something similar at least) is, working on getting better scores can help to improve your photography. Getting good scores here doesn't make you a bad photographer.


No, indeed not... I hope I didn't imply that.


No, you didn't.

I get a bit touchy about this subject. Good scores at DPC are often put down as not meaning much, which is true, they don't mean much, it's essentially a popularity contest. Yet, what also comes along with that (not always, but sometimes) is the hint that lower scoring photos that are what someone wants to do are "more artistic" somehow, because they are what the photographer wants to do.

I guess, what I'm getting at is that just doing what you want to do isn't going to make your images more artistic or better by any other definition. As with anything visual, acceptance and approval of others is very important. Your good photo, to be good has to be perceived as "good" by more than just yourself, at least sometimes. I mean, that wouldn't be the only qualifier for what makes a photo "good", but it is important.

Does that make sense?

Edited spelling.

Message edited by author 2006-10-02 15:58:25.
10/02/2006 04:07:27 PM · #17
Thanks all for the words of encouragement and advice. I guess it comes down to me misunderstanding the meaning of "zen" and "abstract". When I think of Zen, I think of silence. I guess maybe my experience of the shot jaded my opinion of the picture. That place was literally one of the most silent places I've ever been in my whole life. So silent, literally your ears rang.

Here was the original that I was working with for the abstract macro:

or
Link to large size

You can see it is in focus - it was my post processing that makes it appear not sharp, but I figured it was not abstract enough. I guess I was wrong.

Shiny photos that pop from now on! Candy canes and unicorns! j/k I do feel like I'd rather evoke emotions with my pictures than actually have nice pop on a tac sharp picture of a tree at sunset.

I guess I'm not really that fond of "cool" or "how'd he do that" types of pictures.
10/02/2006 04:13:06 PM · #18
Originally posted by Julolidine:

I do feel like I'd rather evoke emotions with my pictures than actually have nice pop on a tac sharp picture of a tree at sunset.


Do both ;-) Well, maybe not the tree at sunset part ... hehe
10/02/2006 04:14:14 PM · #19
Originally posted by Julolidine:

Thanks all for the words of encouragement and advice. I guess it comes down to me misunderstanding the meaning of "zen" and "abstract". When I think of Zen, I think of silence. I guess maybe my experience of the shot jaded my opinion of the picture. That place was literally one of the most silent places I've ever been in my whole life. So silent, literally your ears rang.


You know what, you're probably right, that place may have been one of the most silent places in the world. The problem is that your photo doesn't give that impression. The picture really doesn't say much about sound or lack of sound. It does, however, leave an impression of peaceful beauty, the pink slide in front of the vine covered building is really quite nice. But you gave too much information, there's also all the empty space to the right, and the other toy in front. So I don't think it's so much a misreading of the assignment as that the photograph doesn't really get the idea across.

The macro shot, again, it's a macro, few would dispute that. It's abstract (at least by defining abstract as you can't readily tell what it is). But it doesn't evoke emotion. It's somewhat interesting to look at, but what emotion?

I mean, I think it's fantastic to go for emotion rather than candy canes and sunsets, but emotion has to be present, you can't just say that it is there. Emotion doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Message edited by author 2006-10-02 16:19:51.
10/02/2006 04:14:26 PM · #20
Originally posted by Julolidine:

...You can see it is in focus - it was my post processing that makes it appear not sharp ...

It may be in focus, but the focal point is in the wrong spot. The top left third looks fine but the eye is drawn to the larger spots/bubbles in the lower left area. Those are fuzzy and unfortunately get the initial viewer reaction.
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