| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/18/2006 07:17:48 PM · #1 |
| Help! I'm doing a low budget wedding this weekend at a church which only has flourecent lighting. I took some test shots and theya re all mostly blurry, and the color is awful. What shuld I do? Should I just use my external flash on auomatic setting? |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 07:33:16 PM · #2 |
Blurry...why? I assume too slow a shutter speed on your part to hand hold? I see from your list of lenses you don't have a lens suitable for wedding work (as in a constant aperture 2.8 lens). the 50 1.8 can be used for some stuff though.
Up the ISO - all the way to 1600 if you have to and get neat image - the one that you can batch images with. it works great and by batching you sleep while it works.
Color wise - shoot RAW and then color correct the images. There is a flourescent WB setting on the camera, you can see if helps or does any good. I find the presets are close, but for weddings you gotta be better than close or the dress, the cake, the brides's chosie of colors - all are off. To WB in RAW, use DPP (canon's free software)tutorials here. Basically you choose CLICK WB and use the eye droper on the wedding dress. you can tweak it from there.
Flash...it's daylight in color and that is considerably different from flourescent. IF the flash is the main light you'll be ok, but the backgrounds will be off color or dark (hope for dark). The proper solution is to get a gel to put on the flash to make it the same color as the flourescent lights. if there are windows to daylight you'll have more color balance issues near the windows as well (again, mixed light types/colors).
flash on auto setting...this comment tells me you should not be shooting a wedding. I guess you gotta learn sometime, but that's why there are jobs working as assistants to wedding photogs - phtography is a craft, and crafts are best learned by being an apprentice.
Anyway, with your slow lenses flash might be the best option. Camera in manual, flash on eTTL mode, camera set to 1/60 or 1/125 and F4..er, 5.6 in your case. see how that works and adjust accordingly. Stay close to the subjects. don't shoot with a wall close behind the subjects (nasty shadows)
what flash have you got? Does your camera do FEC? Does you flash?
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 07:35:17 PM · #3 |
Oh yeah, one more question - what is the church charging?
I ask because around here even a weekday use of church is often $500+ and up to $1500 on a saturday (often more for the pastor, cleaning, etc).
IMO, just like the photo should cost more than the frame, the wedding photography which lasts for 100 years should cost more than the use of the church for 2 hours or less.
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 07:48:05 PM · #4 |
Boy, unless you have to I'd be pretty wary of 1600 on the 300D. It's really, really noisy. Of course you use if it you have to, but if you can use your flash instead and do ISO 800 or even better 400, you'd be better off.
If you aren't cramped, I'd use the 50 1.8 as much as possible to avoid the 1600. But what do I know? |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:01:56 PM · #5 |
HAHAHA. YOu are correct about me shooting weddings. It is not my plan to do so but this person insisted. I don't ever want to do weddings, whichis why I'm not prepared! Thanks for your feedback, though. The 'church' has no windows at all so the ONLY lighting is the flourecent lighting over head. It's an awful place to do photography. I asked about the flash beause someone told me I should use it for teh wedding but I thought it was wrong to do so. I guess I was confused. Thanks again. And, yes, I was hand holding. Funny how you experienced photographers know that! lol. I don't know what the church is charging. It is a small church (polebarn). Nothing at all elaborate. I think they were even going to get a disposable camera to do the shoot before theya sked me. I guess i can do better than that. I hope anyway. I want to! lol
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Oh yeah, one more question - what is the church charging?
I ask because around here even a weekday use of church is often $500+ and up to $1500 on a saturday (often more for the pastor, cleaning, etc).
IMO, just like the photo should cost more than the frame, the wedding photography which lasts for 100 years should cost more than the use of the church for 2 hours or less. |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:03:57 PM · #6 |
Did your flash come with the adapter to match it to flourescent? It's a little green clip on thing that you just stick on the end. That'll do the trick.
Either way you'll want manual white balance on flourescent.
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:20:57 PM · #7 |
No, I dont have that clip on my flash. The flash is compatible with my camera but i bought it used. I cannot for the life of me, figure out how to set my white balance on the camera. I go to custom white balance and it takes me to the pictures i shot but wont let me choose a photo or anything. My manual doesnt explain anything either! When I shot the practice shots, the camera automatically set on 1600ISO but I changed it to 800 and to 400 at 5.6.
I am pretty good with outdoor shooting, even in the dark, but indoor, I STINK! |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:22:16 PM · #8 |
there should be a button that says WB...hold that in and rotate your dial and watch your display as the white balance changes. Your flourescent will look like a flourescent light heh.
You should really download a user manual. They're not paying you for this wedding, are they?
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:23:51 PM · #9 |
oh yea, and I used both of my longest lenses. I figure I willuse the shorter lens to do some closeups of the bride with the girls around her mesing with her dress or something. I think I'll shoot it from over their heads. Hopefully it will blur the girls and focus on the bride.
Keep your fingers crossed for me! X |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:24:50 PM · #10 |
Do a google or forum search on 'strobist'
You will find a wicked amazing site about flashes.
You would do well to pick up a simple external flash like the Sigma 500DG super or something and get some GELS.
The strobist site has links to some very cheap plastic material that can be taped or velcro'd to any flash after being cut to size that will do a good job of color correcting your flash to match the available ambient light.
Watch your shutter speed and focal length to prevent unwanted blurring.
Shouldn't be a major difficulty during the ceremony. You will probably want a faster lens for the reception though. |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:27:07 PM · #11 |
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic"
E
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:30:31 PM · #12 |
WOW! I found it! haha. Thanks so much! Uh, yes they r paying me. First of all, I am driving an hour away to do it for them and well, I've been told never to do anything for free. lol. Not very much though. Very low budget.Originally posted by deapee:
there should be a button that says WB...hold that in and rotate your dial and watch your display as the white balance changes. Your flourescent will look like a flourescent light heh.
You should really download a user manual. They're not paying you for this wedding, are they? |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:32:16 PM · #13 |
hahaha. good one!Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic"
E |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:34:25 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by melissia:
Help! I'm doing a low budget wedding this weekend at a church which only has flourecent lighting. I took some test shots and theya re all mostly blurry, and the color is awful. What shuld I do? Should I just use my external flash on auomatic setting? |
You didn't say what settings you were on... but here's a guess:
If you shoot in Av mode then you'll have the blurry problem you described. I, personally, am always in Av mode - until my flash becomes the main source of light - then I switch to manual mode.
In Av mode, the camera is going to calculate a shutter speed based on ambient light (read: slow shutter speed). Which means you're going to get blurry pictures in spite of your flash.
So switch to manual mode. Pick something between about 1/60th and 1/125th of a second, and set the aperture and ISO tha you want. Let e-TTL figure out the rest (it will attempt to pump out enough light to light the scene based on the aperture and ISO you have selected).
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:35:04 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by melissia:
hahaha. good one!Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic"
E |
|
Um, I'm not joking...
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:35:32 PM · #16 |
Sounds like you've got some other issues there. When you enter flash mode (any time the flash is popped up), the shutter speed probably sets to 1/60. Shoot that with a long lens and the image from the ambient light will be blurry, but there will be a 'ghosted' image superimposed from the flash burst (which itself will be a different color unless you correct for WB).
I'm with Deapee on this one. Before you do anything else, get out the manual for your camera (if you don't have it, www.canon.com should have one that you can download after a couple of minutes of surfing) and READ the relevant sections on flash and WB. Then go to the strobist website and read whatever you think is applicable.
If you are going to spend a few hours of your own time on shooting the wedding and a few hours post processing (if only that), at least do yourself a favor and spend a few hours learning how your equipment works before getting in over your head.
At the VERY LEAST, you will probably NEED to have:
A grey card
A flash gel for each of your flash options
A tripod/monopod
If you want to get more involved, you will want:
A faster lens
An extra off-camera flash
Diffusers for the flashes or an umbrella or something similar
A tripod for the external flash
Oh yeah, and shooting on AUTO is the WORST thing you can do in challenging light situations.
At the VERY LEAST shoot in P.
Others might say at the very least you should be shooting in Av or M.
I shoot almost exclusively in Av mode unless I need to control my exposure.
And with the 300D, I wouldn't go less than ISO 200 for nice clean shots. There's a reason you brought a flash.
Be careful with that long lens, it's going to be slow as hell at a distance and you will have no power in your flash to compensate for that. |
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:36:02 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic" |
When I was shooting the rebel, that's *exactly* what I did for low light (ISO 1600) weddings / receptions. I basically desaturated the image and then ADDED noise to it. I wanted them to think the noise was on purpose! :-)
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:38:59 PM · #18 |
I know u aren't. I tell people that when photos r blurry. I say its photojournalism. lolOriginally posted by mrorange002:
Originally posted by melissia:
hahaha. good one!Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic"
E |
|
Um, I'm not joking... |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:40:23 PM · #19 |
Yesit helps very much. I just tried all of the suggestions given here and they r all good! Thanks a million!!Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic" |
When I was shooting the rebel, that's *exactly* what I did for low light (ISO 1600) weddings / receptions. I basically desaturated the image and then ADDED noise to it. I wanted them to think the noise was on purpose! :-) |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:40:43 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by melissia:
Help! I'm doing a low budget wedding this weekend at a church which only has flourecent lighting. I took some test shots and theya re all mostly blurry, and the color is awful. What shuld I do? Should I just use my external flash on auomatic setting? |
If at all possible, try and get some color correction jell from a local film rental, or camera retail store.
Ask the person in charge if they have scrap, make friends with this person. Make sure that they understand that you are an amateur and working a low budjet job. If you don't have enough scrap, use what you have and turn out the rest of the tubes.
The jell you want is Rosco #243 Fluorescent 3600k green, or Rosco #245 Half Plus Green.
Put the jell onto the fluorescnet tubes with tape, making sure there are no leaks.
Set camera to flourescent wb, shoot RAW like the Prof said. When you get into editing mode, revert your wb to tungsten, or custom 3200k (which is true tungsten) and watch the magic.
If you can't get the jell, do what everyone else suggested.
Good luck.
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:42:54 PM · #21 |
You are very creative! I'll remember that one. I can't wait to get a 30D but I need to get some really good practices indoors first, I think, on this Rebel. I'm going to be pening a studio to MAKE me do it. I have done mostly landscape photos which I sell at festivals. www.totalimagephotography.com but the people thing is kind of hard. Well, it's not the people, it's the lighting!Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by mrorange002:
Just give them all BW, and forget about the WB. Shoot hi-speed, grainy BW and tell them it's "artistic" |
When I was shooting the rebel, that's *exactly* what I did for low light (ISO 1600) weddings / receptions. I basically desaturated the image and then ADDED noise to it. I wanted them to think the noise was on purpose! :-) |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:45:41 PM · #22 |
Ok, Ill try that. I have some jells, most colors, but i dont have that one. THanks for your input.Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by melissia:
Help! I'm doing a low budget wedding this weekend at a church which only has flourecent lighting. I took some test shots and theya re all mostly blurry, and the color is awful. What shuld I do? Should I just use my external flash on auomatic setting? |
If at all possible, try and get some color correction jell from a local film rental, or camera retail store.
Ask the person in charge if they have scrap, make friends with this person. Make sure that they understand that you are an amateur and working a low budjet job. If you don't have enough scrap, use what you have and turn out the rest of the tubes.
The jell you want is Rosco #243 Fluorescent 3600k green, or Rosco #245 Half Plus Green.
Put the jell onto the fluorescnet tubes with tape, making sure there are no leaks.
Set camera to flourescent wb, shoot RAW like the Prof said. When you get into editing mode, revert your wb to tungsten, or custom 3200k (which is true tungsten) and watch the magic.
If you can't get the jell, do what everyone else suggested.
Good luck. |
|
|
|
|
09/18/2006 08:53:50 PM · #23 |
Yea, see, my problem has been that I have had no place to practice. I have all the equipment but no place to use it, until now. So now I can start practicing. I have done all landscape photos because I dont need a plac to work, I jsut go outside. This wedding is getting mre and more complicated. Maybe I will not do it! I have to though. I'm learning though! Thanks for all the help!Originally posted by eschelar:
Sounds like you've got some other issues there. When you enter flash mode (any time the flash is popped up), the shutter speed probably sets to 1/60. Shoot that with a long lens and the image from the ambient light will be blurry, but there will be a 'ghosted' image superimposed from the flash burst (which itself will be a different color unless you correct for WB).
I'm with Deapee on this one. Before you do anything else, get out the manual for your camera (if you don't have it, www.canon.com should have one that you can download after a couple of minutes of surfing) and READ the relevant sections on flash and WB. Then go to the strobist website and read whatever you think is applicable.
If you are going to spend a few hours of your own time on shooting the wedding and a few hours post processing (if only that), at least do yourself a favor and spend a few hours learning how your equipment works before getting in over your head.
At the VERY LEAST, you will probably NEED to have:
A grey card
A flash gel for each of your flash options
A tripod/monopod
If you want to get more involved, you will want:
A faster lens
An extra off-camera flash
Diffusers for the flashes or an umbrella or something similar
A tripod for the external flash
Oh yeah, and shooting on AUTO is the WORST thing you can do in challenging light situations.
At the VERY LEAST shoot in P.
Others might say at the very least you should be shooting in Av or M.
I shoot almost exclusively in Av mode unless I need to control my exposure.
And with the 300D, I wouldn't go less than ISO 200 for nice clean shots. There's a reason you brought a flash.
Be careful with that long lens, it's going to be slow as hell at a distance and you will have no power in your flash to compensate for that. |
|
|
|
|
09/19/2006 06:58:16 AM · #24 |
Another thing that you might want to do is make sure you are shooting no faster than 1/60. I've heard that you can get a lot of color shift because the fluoro's operate at 1/60. At 1/120, you are only getting half of their cycle and you will get color shifting. This will affect stuff shot when the fluoros are the primary light because the color temperature off the flash will be stable, but the ambient light will shift. This would apply specifically to shots with flash only and could turn out to be a minor issue depending on the actual lights at the location.
So that also means that you are restricted to shooting a certain distance too.. If you are shooting 1/60 at 300mm, your shots are going to suck.
In this case, I'd probably rig up a couple of flashes, get a little jury rigged "Jemison diffuser" on my E-TTL compatible flash, and I'd probably shoot the 50mm f/1.8 at f/3.5.
I find that lens blows chunks for anything other than closeups/portraits though, so if you can possibly find a way to rent some lenses, try to rent a 50mm f/1.4 (you will have to have enough on your credit card to buy the lens to rent, so you still can't go toooo crazy) and/or maybe a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8.
If this isn't an option, maybe use the kit lens for group shots, but stop it down to f/5.6 or so. Make sure you have enough light because you don't want to light a group shot with a single flash. The kit lens performs pretty well at f/8, but I doubt you will have the light for that.
There's a reason people study this for years. :)
There's a reason why some people who have studied this for years still can't shoot worth crap.
There's a reason why people who have studied this for years and shoot amazing stuff still end up with crap in some circumstances.
It's tricky stuff!
If it were me, I'd choose 5-6 specific shots that I wanted to pull out of the wedding and make sure I got those. Then I'd have some fun with the kit lens and the 50mm for the rest. Don't forget to get some variety and let it be spontaneous.
You'll be fine if you can get the gels and a grey card.
If you can't get a grey card because it's expensive, you could TRY to make one with a home printer. Use Photoshop and paint a large canvas with a color that is 128, 128, 128 RGB, then print it large at the max resolution of your printer. To shoot it at the event, make sure it's lit normally (without flash) and set manual focus so the paper is OUT OF FOCUS. Then you can take your picture.
That will help for doing CUSTOM WHITE BALANCE if you aren't shooting RAW.
If you are shooting RAW, you don't really need to worry about this, just take a shot here a couple of times throughout the evening and any time the light changes. You can correct later.
If you are shooting RAW, bring LOTS of memory. 4GB sounds like a lot, but seeing as you will be learning as you do it, it probably won't be all that much.
If you need more help, feel free to PM. I'm not all that experienced but I read a lot. |
|
|
|
09/19/2006 08:57:26 AM · #25 |
just to give you some slight encouragement...
the main lens I shoot my weddings with is not a very fast lens either.
I shoot with the canon 17-85 4-5.6
I shoot mostly in manual on 1/30th sec and 5.6 with an ISO of 400-800
I have the 430 flash(and the 580) set on ettl
I have shot in a ton of churches now, all with various lighting situations.
For the most part my shots all come out ok....well i havent heard any complaints yet and i work for 3 different studios plus for myself.
I usually use a stoffen diffuser( or sometimes the gary fong lightsphere) but for the church portion many times shoot direct but on a bracket (to avoid side shadows).
It is definitely possible to do the wedding with the gear you have as long as you know how to adjust for the changing conditions around you.
My suggestion is to try 1/60 at 5.6 with ISO of 400 and adjust as needed. If you can shoot raw then that would also probably be a good idea. |
|
