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09/12/2003 12:23:47 PM · #1 |
| Nice, i like to see how photographers see the american flag as a symbol of freedom (actually, most of the world´s flags are a symbol of freedom) and now i can say people will vote not only for the freedom topic, because there is the american flag or some other country flag in this challenge, we live because of many peole dead for us, so , this is an homage too |
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09/12/2003 12:30:40 PM · #2 |
I have no problems with people using the US flag as a symbol of freedom. It isn't a universal symbol of freedom; It isn't for me, but it is for many Americans.
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09/12/2003 03:17:11 PM · #3 |
The flag, for me, is the strongest symbol for freedom.
I can't speak for others. |
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09/12/2003 03:20:53 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Ten13:
The flag, for me, is the strongest symbol for freedom.
I can't speak for others. |
*chuckle* Based on the entries about half the site agreed with you. |
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09/12/2003 04:22:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
I have no problems with people using the US flag as a symbol of freedom. It isn't a universal symbol of freedom; It isn't for me, but it is for many Americans. |
The challenge says Freedom as you understand it to some The Flag means Freedom to some it doesn't. Anyway This challenge is being voted on now
and there seems to be an unwritten rule about discussing it while it's being voted on. Happy shooting
Sue |
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09/13/2003 06:22:44 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Crafty Sue:
Anyway This challenge is being voted on now and there seems to be an unwritten rule about discussing it while it's being voted on. |
Doesn't sound very free to me. ;)
The Stars'n'Stripes represents many things depending on its context. For instance, around 9/11 it was for many a symbol of a nation's loss, pride and solidarity.
However, when I heard the news that Bush had shirked his nation's responsibility to partake in the Kyoto treaty (with the US accounting for 25 percent of the world's CO2 output) it was for me a symbol of greed, self-interest and ignorance - which may demonstrate how a nation's people can me misrepresented by its 'elected' administration.
Personally, I think the Union Jack has never looked better than on the roof of a Mini Cooper in The Italian Job - but there you go!
Message edited by author 2003-09-14 07:31:54. |
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09/13/2003 06:44:02 AM · #7 |
No offence.....but the USA flag to most of the world does not represent freedom!
But obviously if you are American you do believe that it does.
Message edited by author 2003-10-10 19:06:35. |
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09/13/2003 07:46:46 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Hoogie:
No offence.....but the USA flag to most of the world does not represent freedom!
But obviously if you are American you do believe that it does, for some reason. |
It was open to everyone's interpretation... if it means freedom to the photographer, then that is all that matters..
you're right, its not a symbol of freedom to most of the world... but again, everyone was free to portray what it means to them.. |
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09/13/2003 08:34:01 AM · #9 |
| I debated about using a flag photo but cause of what happened with the weather challenge I decided to spend the day seeking out the perfect freedom pic and from looking at the comments I chose well, it speaks universally. |
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09/13/2003 07:52:44 PM · #10 |
It seems to me that there is a sector that would rather we Americans don't honour our flag. I have difficulty accepting that. When other nations fly their colours, I don't criticise, nor complain.
Some months ago on this site, a person said they get tired of the American flag be shoved at them and a few agreed. So am I to understand that we should refrain from waving the symbol of our freedom, in our own country for fear of offending? I'm no historian, but it seems that history shows that many countries oppressed and ruled over other peoples. I wouldn't want to throw that up in anyone's face though.
In defense of my country, the USA, I must say, though we are not perfect, nor a utopian society, the best thing we have going for us is freedom. We are yet a young nation, made up of a diversity of people who left their native lands for the pursuit of happiness, and freedom. Some fled from religious persecution, and poverty.
It appears that this site is comprised of folks from many lands. That is wonderful and one of the things I love about DPC. Probably the largest groups represented is US citizens. Though we are all free to voice our opinions, it isn't very good etiquette to knock each other's beliefs, cultures, nor countries.
The point of all this is that because a nation's flag represents freedom to the photographer, doesn't mean that the artist thinks everyone has the same sentiment. Please be tolerant of each other and show mutual respect.
This isn't directed to any one person, but a response to assorted comments read here and there on DPC. In a way I see all of us contributors as ambassadors of sorts. Kind of like the Olympics to sports.
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09/13/2003 08:28:40 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Gracious:
It seems to me that there is a sector that would rather we Americans don't honour our flag. I have difficulty accepting that. When other nations fly their colours, I don't criticise, nor complain.
Some months ago on this site, a person said they get tired of the American flag be shoved at them and a few agreed. So am I to understand that we should refrain from waving the symbol of our freedom, in our own country for fear of offending? I'm no historian, but it seems that history shows that many countries oppressed and ruled over other peoples. I wouldn't want to throw that up in anyone's face though.
In defense of my country, the USA, I must say, though we are not perfect, nor a utopian society, the best thing we have going for us is freedom. We are yet a young nation, made up of a diversity of people who left their native lands for the pursuit of happiness, and freedom. Some fled from religious persecution, and poverty.
It appears that this site is comprised of folks from many lands. That is wonderful and one of the things I love about DPC. Probably the largest groups represented is US citizens. Though we are all free to voice our opinions, it isn't very good etiquette to knock each other's beliefs, cultures, nor countries.
The point of all this is that because a nation's flag represents freedom to the photographer, doesn't mean that the artist thinks everyone has the same sentiment. Please be tolerant of each other and show mutual respect.
This isn't directed to any one person, but a response to assorted comments read here and there on DPC. In a way I see all of us contributors as ambassadors of sorts. Kind of like the Olympics to sports. |
Grayce you may want to take a look at some of the comments left on this photo.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=18191
I know exactly what you are talking about and this flag photo created a lot of contraversy when I was offended by a comment left on the photo and then those who complained and cricised us as American's for being proud were surpressing some of us not to photograph the flag. I admit I didn't photograph a flag for the freedom challenge cause I didn't want all the ones from those who don't like flag photos. I should be ashamed of myself for not taking the chance to photograph a flag, however I am very happy at the alternative to the flag that I have in my photo and I really am glad I thought past the flag and showed more than just the flag in my photo and I showed what it takes to fly the stars and stripes instead. |
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09/13/2003 08:32:43 PM · #12 |
| No offense Hoogie, but in WWll it was mostly American blood that was spilled in repulsing the Japanese from invading Australia and, next, New Zealand. Ask around...you might find people near you who strongly believe the American flag stood for freedom. I speak from first hand experience. |
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09/13/2003 10:01:07 PM · #13 |
JEM, don't listen to Hoogie, he only leaves a comment in these forums when he sees a chance to bash America. He's basically nothing but a forum "troll". Hoogie, why don't you go crawl back under your rock.
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09/13/2003 10:18:28 PM · #14 |
I deleted my post because i cant be bothered trying to have a mature discussion with you around Chrisw123.
good night
Message edited by author 2003-10-10 19:08:12. |
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09/13/2003 10:40:12 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Hoogie:
And sorry No-one i know says the USA flag stands for freedom, and yet everyone i know lives in "REAL" freedom. |
Who cares that the people you know don't think the American flag stands for freedom. Americans don't give a damn what your friends or countryman think about America. You don't like us (your gov./people), then don't ask us for help anymore.
Originally posted by Hoogie:
People are generally confused as to why Americans always emphasis that they live in a free country ,when most of the modern world does too?? |
I don't think we "emphasize" it more then anyone else in a free country does. If you are talking about all the flags in the "Fredom" challenge, well gee, don't you think it fits the topic? And since most of the members here are American we may see a few flags, right?
Originally posted by Hoogie:
I can only guess that the reason for this is americans are predominately taught to be extremely patriotic to thier country through thier schooling system, and are basically only taught everything about the USA opposed to anything else relating to the rest of the world. |
That might be true. When I was a kid we all recited the Pledge of Allegance before class, etc. What is wrong with that? I don't think growing up in a country that doesn't give a crap about it's history, accomplishments, or influence in the World is a country I'd want to live in.
Originally posted by Hoogie:
Yet when i went to school we wernt forced to be patriotic to our country that just came naturally, and i am a very proud NZer :) |
Nobody is forced here to do anything here. When you were a kid in school, you didn't have ANYTHING in your classroom relating to your country, not a flag, no New Zeland history class, no nothing about your country? If you if fact did, then why do you say that we are being forced into something when you had the same type of exposure? It's a ridiculous, self-serving, statement you made.
Originally posted by Hoogie:
Im not critising americans AT ALL i criticise your government and system as i criticize my government sometimes, so please dont accuse me of attacking the USA people ....The USA people are great. |
No government is perfect. Is your government perfect?
Originally posted by Hoogie:
LOL i just saw Chrisw123 is back....going to start your abusing again eh...loser |
I'd say your more a LOSER who only has something to contribute when it's an attack against the USA.
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09/13/2003 10:54:59 PM · #16 |
WELL DONE chrisw123 you actually put up constructive points without abuse ....and they made sence, im in shock.
except the part about me attacking usa(that still makes you a loser ;)...)
Message edited by author 2003-09-13 22:56:57. |
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09/13/2003 11:01:43 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Hoogie:
WELL DONE chrisw123 you actually put up constructive points without abuse ....and they made sence, im in shock.
except the part about me attacking usa(that still makes you a loser ;)...) |
Hoogie, maybe you should stop before you start a war! |
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09/13/2003 11:02:46 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Hoogie:
WELL DONE chrisw123 you actually put up constructive points without abuse ....and they made sence, im in shock.
except the part about me attacking usa(that still makes you a loser ;)...) |
All my comments are constructive, just like last time. :D |
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09/13/2003 11:29:06 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
I have no problems with people using the US flag as a symbol of freedom. It isn't a universal symbol of freedom; It isn't for me, but it is for many Americans. |
Spoken like a true Canadian, Jacko! I would have to agree though, a flag only shows freedom for those loyal to it, for others it is simply what it is, a flag.
Lee
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09/13/2003 11:53:48 PM · #20 |
We can say how we feel without the name calling or attacks. A lot of this may simply be joking sarcasm but it is sometimes hard to tell for sure in a forum.
T
Message edited by author 2003-09-13 23:55:52.
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09/14/2003 04:11:46 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by JEM:
No offense Hoogie, but in WWll it was mostly American blood that was spilled in repulsing the Japanese from invading Australia and, next, New Zealand. Ask around...you might find people near you who strongly believe the American flag stood for freedom. I speak from first hand experience. |
My stepfather was one of 7 Lancaster bomber crew who conducted many sorties over Germany and, thankfully, survived the war to write books on the subject. It's this kind of comment (although not intended to be hurtful, I'm sure) that could make British civilians and other servicemen turn in their 50 year-old graves. For your information, there are 9 nations who suffered more blood-loss than the US in Word War II.
As so often happens in Hollywood (and evidently, the US education system) the States perpetually positions itself as the main influential force during WWII. Comments like 'Don't ask us for help...' etc. indicate a conceited, self-proclaimed hero status for a nation that was only dragged into the war after the efforts of Winston Churchill.
Check out the real historic statistics here:
//www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html |
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09/14/2003 05:20:27 AM · #22 |
I think it's important that those who find the American Flag's prevalence in photos here to understand that lmost every other house in the US has the flag flying outside it. It really is used as that serious a symbol.
Equally, it's important for Americans to realise that most other countries don't do this - in fact find it rather embarrassing if people fly their country's flag. It's a cultural difference is all.
Personally, I'm too embarrassed about some of the UK's history, and certainly it's present gvernment's behaviour, to be seeen as offereing it any support that isn't ambiguous at best. I think most Americans would agree in re their government too.
Ed
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09/14/2003 05:57:58 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
However, when I heard the news that Bush had shirked his nation's responsibility to partake in the Kyoto treaty (with the US accounting for 25 percent of the world's CO2 output) it was for me a symbol of greed, self-interest and ignorance - which may demonstrate how a nation's people can me misrepresented by its elected administration
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Elected?!?!?!?!?
Now there's a debate!
Message edited by author 2003-09-14 06:08:50.
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09/14/2003 07:13:06 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by joannadiva:
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
However, when I heard the news that Bush had shirked his nation's responsibility to partake in the Kyoto treaty (with the US accounting for 25 percent of the world's CO2 output) it was for me a symbol of greed, self-interest and ignorance - which may demonstrate how a nation's people can me misrepresented by its elected administration
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Elected?!?!?!?!?
Now there's a debate! |
Ain't that the truth, guess the rest of the world doesn't know about the Florida election scandal. |
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09/14/2003 07:20:56 AM · #25 |
FREEDOM, THE AMERICAN FLAG .....
Is it a symbol of freedom? or is it only a symbol of freedom because we were brainwashed from the first grade when we were made to "pledge allegiance to the flag"
Wouldn't an American symbol of freedom more likely be the declaration of independence, the bill of rights, the constitution or more obviously the emancipation proclamation?
The flag...
Until two years ago on 9/11 it was seen as sort of cornball by the intelligentsia in downtown/uptown NYC. After 9/11 it was a symbol of national solidarity. A way of shaking our fists at the unknown danger lurking in the skies and a pledge that our way of life would not be taken away. We proudly wore our flag pins that we bought from the Pakistani man at the gas station as we flew our plastic flags from our gas gusling SUV's.
then again...
The flag is our nations symbol. We believe ourselves to be a free people with liberty and justice for all. We in our naivete believe in all the fundamental ideals that we were taught our fore fathers died for and the rights that the declaration of independence, the bill of rights, the constitution, and the emancipation proclamation were written to protect and guarantee every American citizen.
For me that is what the flag represents.
For the record. I do not agree with the American foreign policy or for that mater a good deal of domestic policy. I can understand some of the anti American sentiment in other parts of the world. That dose not mean that I condone the actions of those who would come over to MY country and blow s__t up. I LOVE my country and have no problem shouting GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! (and save and protect us from all the ego jockeys and glory whores who are somehow now running our government.)
I would guess this rather long winded and pointless rant as well as this thread is in itself a symbol of freedom. Freedom of speech. In other countries and at other times posting something like this would result in a visit from a government authority and/or possibly jail time. Most likely this rant will not get me a personal letter from Tom Ridge inviting me to explain my political opinions to a congressional committee but.......
who knows?
Rant complete.
Flame away!
Message edited by author 2003-09-14 07:23:16.
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