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06/12/2006 01:34:52 PM · #1 |
It's time for a break from DPC, at least challenges for me anyway.
For those of you watching the Shadows III thread, you already know the status of my picture. Essentially it's doing terrible, and my guess is that it's because the voters aren't seeing what's there. My 3 comments so far support that.
Now I know it's the photographer's responsibility to connect with the viewer so they "get it" without explanation. But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? Am I expecting too much? When I give a low vote I take a longer, harder look at the picture to make sure the score is deserved.
For some reason I am having a hard time separating myself from this picture, because I really think it's good. Not great, but at least 1/2 point higher than the current score. Maybe it's just a bad picture and I'm that one who doesn't get it.
Or maybe it's just DPC burnout. Tomorrow I am starting a two week vacation and I think it's a good time to forget about these challenges and the frustration that goes with them. Unless God throws a blue ribbon shot in my lap and I can't help myself, I will most likely not shoot anything for challenges for a while. I think I'll just take hundreds for snapshots (yes, I used that terrible snapshot word) of my family having fun on vacation.
Sorry for the rant. |
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06/12/2006 01:42:41 PM · #2 |
have fun, ken. DPC is a pretty specific audience so not all photos, despite creativity or quality, do well here. Enjoy your vacation and take all you can in learning and leave the rest! :)
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06/12/2006 01:44:42 PM · #3 |
| Some time off is definitely a good idea. Shooting for challenges every week can skew your mindset. Time to go out and shoot to please yourself. You'll probably come back to the challenges refreshed, and possibly find new insight. |
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06/12/2006 01:45:56 PM · #4 |
A break may be just what you need. It's been over six months since I've entered a challenge. Not because I decided to take a break, but because I just lost interest. It was getting to be too much like work. :P My creative spark sort of ebbed a bit too I suppose. It happens... to me anyway.
Good luck and have a nice vacation!
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06/12/2006 01:48:33 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
A break may be just what you need. It's been over six months since I've entered a challenge. Not because I decided to take a break, but because I just lost interest. It was getting to be too much like work. :P My creative spark sort of ebbed a bit too I suppose. It happens... to me anyway.
Good luck and have a nice vacation! |
I actually thought I was getting more creative with this one!
Thanks all for the support. |
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06/12/2006 01:49:52 PM · #6 |
I don't guess there are many of us who haven't felt just like you are feeling right now at some point. It is discouraging when you have a photo you think is awesome, and it gets painfully dismissed without knowing why.
The great thing about taking time off is the liberation that sets in from no one measuring your work with a score. And you start realizing that your worth and talent as a photographer really ISN'T measured by what the dpc crowd thinks of your photos for a specific challenge.
Blessings over your time off!!!!!!
P.S. I just looked at your profile. WOW! Your work is AWESOME!!!!!!!
Message edited by author 2006-06-12 13:51:22. |
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06/12/2006 01:51:03 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I think I'll just take hundreds for snapshots (yes, I used that terrible snapshot word) of my family having fun on vacation. |
Those pictures will likely mean more to you than 10 blue ribbons at DPC ever would and, to me, are what photography is really about anyway. It's so easy to lose sight of that, especially when competition and judging are involved. Have a super time. :) |
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06/12/2006 02:05:35 PM · #8 |
Sorry to hear that Ken!
It's up and down here on DPchallenge, and it's easy to get upset with a low score. Been there, felt that!
I've been on a few breaks myself, and I've decided to come back and not try to create a "high-scoring" shot, instead just create something I like, and let the score be. At least the site is full of gifted cool friendly people, and they're key in getting feedback.
Hope you change your mind!
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06/12/2006 02:15:33 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
It's time for a break from DPC, at least challenges for me anyway.
For those of you watching the Shadows III thread, you already know the status of my picture. Essentially it's doing terrible, and my guess is that it's because the voters aren't seeing what's there. My 3 comments so far support that. ...
But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? Am I expecting too much? |
DPC is a general audience. Images submitted here should be targeted for a general audience and they must have an unambiguous connection to the challenge topic. DPC voters hold the challenge topic to the same level as photography itself.
DPCers are harsh voters. That is what frustrates you. They say one thing yet do another. In the forums people go on and on about how great pictures at DPC are yet steadfastly insist on voting them below average regardless of any logical standard you might chose to apply to their voting habits. It is ironic and frustrating but something you need to take into account when submiting here. Some have figured it out, the rest of us have not.
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06/12/2006 03:37:29 PM · #10 |
I am one of your 3 commenters, Ken (in case someone is wondering how I know: he sent me an email to say thanks for the comment) and I DID see what is there.
I can't discuss your entry in here, but I sent you an email to explain some more.
Please don't just tell us we didn't look properly - that isn't always the case.
Sometimes we get attached to our photos and find it difficult to see them the same way other people see them.
A low score doesn't always mean that the voters are careless, mean or stupid. Sometimes there is a good reason for it. |
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06/12/2006 03:55:13 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Sometimes we get attached to our photos and find it difficult to see them the same way other people see them.
A low score doesn't always mean that the voters are careless, mean or stupid. Sometimes there is a good reason for it. |
Photographers will also sometimes think that if they do something on purpose it must be OK. But just because something is done purposefully does not always mean that it works. Sometimes it doesn't. It could be the implementation that is faulty or sometimes it is just a bad idea. You can only find out for sure from unbiased critiques.
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06/12/2006 04:04:59 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
I am one of your 3 commenters, Ken (in case someone is wondering how I know: he sent me an email to say thanks for the comment) and I DID see what is there.
I can't discuss your entry in here, but I sent you an email to explain some more.
Please don't just tell us we didn't look properly - that isn't always the case.
Sometimes we get attached to our photos and find it difficult to see them the same way other people see them.
A low score doesn't always mean that the voters are careless, mean or stupid. Sometimes there is a good reason for it. |
I apologize if I offended you or anyone else with my comments; that wasn't my intent. I know it's hard to vote and comment with so many pictures so assumed maybe they were just working their way through fast. With all the DNMC talk in the forums I figured that was the reason for low votes. Perhaps it is, but like many of these challenges we all tend to define them slightly differently. And the fact that we all have different voting styles doesn't help much either.
When I come back and enter a challenge I will take the picture for myself, to learn, and to get a good score. In that order. Thanks to the support here I don't feel as bad as I did earlier, but I'll just say that I'm really glad I'm leaving town tomorrow. There's a lot of desolation around here and if I were here for the week I'd go out shooting. At least desolation in my opinion... |
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06/12/2006 04:07:36 PM · #13 |
In my short time here I have entered a handful of shots that I thought rocked and would easily be top 10. And then in the first hour of voting my score and comments let me know that ain't gonna happen. But as harsh as some of the comments have been (harsh as in what I really needed to improve rather than just plain mean) they really opened my eyes to the percieved problems of my pictures. Most of my shots are "set up" so I actually had control over some if not most of the issues. But it is almost like I have beer goggles on when viewing my own shots. I look at a pic for so long that I lose perspective. Thats where the votes and comments come in (comments more than votes). Early on I took it too personal, but in recent shots these criticisms of my shots have been an eye opener. I find myself saying "that makes sense", "I should have done that (or not done that)", or "thats a bunch of bs" and then I check the helpful box and move on to the next shot, hopefully remembering some of the suggestions when it comes to future shots. But what is really remarkable is the memory span I have on most of my shots. A day after closing and ending up with a high four or low 5 and I am over it (sometimes before voting closes). The effects and ego boost of my first ribbon wore off before my pic left the home page. There is always another challenge and another pic to be temporarily consumed with.
But I am reaching my goal here - I think differently about my photography, I take and process better shots and every so often some people like my work. The only reason I can see me taking a break anytime soon is if my camera crashes on me (knock on wood). |
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06/12/2006 04:19:17 PM · #14 |
You could move to Iceland.
Something about that place that makes photographers awesome for DPC.
Just kidding, I've been online here a few months, some good scores, some not so good. What drives me crazy is shots I take that I feel took little or no photographic ability, (static buildings, interiors, etc) do very well. Shots with people, more candid, less setup, don't do as well.
I do get the occasional validation like with Environmental Portiat. It didn't ribbon, but scored very well. So now I know that SOMETIMES the DPC crowd and I do see things the same way.
Good luck and come back soon!
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06/12/2006 04:29:23 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
DPC is a general audience. |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
You can only find out for sure from unbiased critiques. |
DPC is neither general nor unbiased. Everyone brings their specific biases to bear. Since this is a photography site, the audience tends to be focused on techniques that specifically require photographic skill, and also certain aesthetic requirements that are mostly in the realm of stock photography and advertising.
Someone who is simply a "photographer" and not a "professional photographer" or a "stock photographer" or a "photojournalist" or some other specialist, should be aware that s/he is working in the tradition of the visual arts, which has a much broader and longer history than photography. The application of this awareness, however, will only hurt his/her scores at DPC, since a large portion of the voters do not share this awareness, or purposely ignore it.
I suggest if this inequity bothers you (mad_brewer), that you launch tutorials or learning threads or somesuch to broaden the appreciation of the audience here. I am considering the same thing myself. Please note, this is different than a "why my picture is great thread." It should be about a specific tradition or movement or technique in the visual arts.
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06/12/2006 04:30:49 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? |
Doing that 154 times is outside the realm of reality.
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06/12/2006 05:00:53 PM · #17 |
Or 450 times in Green....and if people are voting in many Challenges, they might even spend less time looking.
I think Beetle probably put it best with his remarks and I've noticed that some people also hang on too tight even when they themselves are way off base. |
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06/12/2006 05:53:08 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
DPC is a general audience. |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
You can only find out for sure from unbiased critiques. |
DPC is neither general nor unbiased. Everyone brings their specific biases to bear. Since this is a photography site, the audience tends to be focused on techniques that specifically require photographic skill, and also certain aesthetic requirements that are mostly in the realm of stock photography and advertising.
Someone who is simply a "photographer" and not a "professional photographer" or a "stock photographer" or a "photojournalist" or some other specialist, should be aware that s/he is working in the tradition of the visual arts, which has a much broader and longer history than photography. The application of this awareness, however, will only hurt his/her scores at DPC, since a large portion of the voters do not share this awareness, or purposely ignore it.
I suggest if this inequity bothers you (mad_brewer), that you launch tutorials or learning threads or somesuch to broaden the appreciation of the audience here. I am considering the same thing myself. Please note, this is different than a "why my picture is great thread." It should be about a specific tradition or movement or technique in the visual arts. |
I consider myself unqualified to start a tutorial or learning thread. I'm the one who needs to learn more. I hope I didn't imply that I consider my picture great, which it isn't. I still think it's pretty decent and the difference between what I thought it would score and what it's getting was what bothered me. Beetle gave me more critique in a PM which helped clear up some things. |
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06/12/2006 05:59:46 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? |
Doing that 154 times is outside the realm of reality. |
I can accept constructive criticism, but I still feel it should be based on taking the time to look at the picture. I take back my assumption that people rushed through and didn't see something that was there; but I stand by this one.
I don't know how long voters spend looking at each picture, but if they spent an extra 5 seconds on each picture, is it not realistic? 5 x 154 is a little over 11 minutes. Or would it be better to go slower and vote only on the 1st 50%? 80%? Or take that extra just on those that there are serious problems with. I think some of us must do that because the really low scores get more comments than the average ones. |
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06/12/2006 07:21:18 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? |
Doing that 154 times is outside the realm of reality. |
I can accept constructive criticism, but I still feel it should be based on taking the time to look at the picture. |
jmsetzler has cast almost 80,000 votes and is very experienced. It is doubtful he needs more than a glance to correctly evaluate a typical photograph. Sometimes our egos convince us that our own pictures cannot be so easily and quickly evaluated. We are wrong. :)
Message edited by author 2006-06-12 19:46:52.
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06/12/2006 08:58:46 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
But what's wrong with wanting somebody to slow down and think for a couple of seconds before voting low? |
Doing that 154 times is outside the realm of reality. |
I can accept constructive criticism, but I still feel it should be based on taking the time to look at the picture. |
jmsetzler has cast almost 80,000 votes and is very experienced. It is doubtful he needs more than a glance to correctly evaluate a typical photograph. Sometimes our egos convince us that our own pictures cannot be so easily and quickly evaluated. We are wrong. :) |
I can agree with that and wasn't questioning his voting. I am certainly not as skilled and therefore require a bit more time. :) |
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06/12/2006 09:07:05 PM · #22 |
I find that the real problem is with the blasted UPDATE button! ;)
We are just too addicted to it, to ever let a challenge pass without a submission, and thus, the pressure to produce a photo for entry.
Occasionally I still submit something poor (below average to my personal standards) just for the sake of submitting and being able to play with the UPDATE button. But I no longer submit to all challenges nowadays - I'm taking more family and friend snapshots |
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06/12/2006 09:18:33 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by crayon:
I find that the real problem is with the blasted UPDATE button! ;)
We are just too addicted to it, to ever let a challenge pass without a submission, and thus, the pressure to produce a photo for entry.
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Amen!!! |
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06/12/2006 09:31:21 PM · #24 |
I too am taking a break. I still do alot of pics for myself, which is why I have kept my sanity. I have decided not to renew my subscription, which will liberate me a bit from the cross of a portfolio that doesn't attract much attention, and also keep me away from entering too many challenges. I am not sure if I will continue entering basic editing, but I might on occasion just to see if I can get back to basics, which I have suffered badly from since joining dpc. My basic shots I took when I was 16, so I am trying too many new ideas and artsy styles, which don't come off well with the dp crowd. It is hard to keep in mind basic photography when you have 10's of thousands of shots sitting in boxes in a craft room waiting to be sorted through, tossed or put into albums.
I also am not in a very photographic area, which I think is a real problem here. Connecticut is one big shopping plaza, at least where I am, and I just don't have the time to spend traveling to where the good shots are. Anyway, I am with mad brewer and others who have decided on breaking away for awhile. I hope to be restored by the end of summer, or at least stop putting so much stock into what the folks here think. It isn't all that important, though it has helped a little in my general images. |
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06/12/2006 09:34:51 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by ladymonarda:
I also am not in a very photographic area, which I think is a real problem here. Connecticut is one big shopping plaza, at least where I am, and I just don't have the time to spend traveling to where the good shots are. |
Hey, take lots of street photography and candids of shoppers and the streets - I love to view these sort of photos (but I'm not good at taking photos of them) I think street photography captures more about life than a setup studio shot, any time. |
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