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05/05/2006 10:52:58 PM · #1 |
I'm a complete amateur in photography. I've been in it for only about 2 years, with no training outside of a couple books. For this, I apologize if this is a stupid question.
When I started working on the negative image challenge, I realized that I was going to need some diffuse lighting to get the effect I was looking for in the reflections off the shot glasses. I went out and found a spotlight in my garage, and taped a bunch of lined paper to the front of it, and used that for one of my lights. I ended up with exactly what I was looking for. So I'm wondering what kind of advantage there is to a nice box light setup.
From what I see, it costs hundreds of dollars, and I don't have the control over it like I do with just adding or removing sheets of paper. |
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05/05/2006 10:58:48 PM · #2 |
bit of an amateur myself. i have been looking into lighting myself
seems that most of what i have read talks about the advantages of strobes over hotlights. both work great. but the hot lights are... well... hot. lol.
the basic disadvantage of a "hot" light is that you cannot put things real close to it for long. it makes the room hot. and the models would be very hot.
ifn you are shooting a family and the kids are not overly cooperative with hot lamps on the entire family could become uneasy because of the bright hot lights beating them down.
the other thing i have read is mostly about the white balance. incandescent is 3200K and sunlight is 5400K or thereabouts. you have to use filters on your lamps do shoot with daylight.
i am looking into buying shoplights from the local home store and creating my own studio from regular stuff. thinking ima spend about 200 dollars rather than 2000. and be pretty well set up... in HOT lights.
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05/06/2006 12:21:26 AM · #3 |
the poor man's route... made this myself out of card stock & duct tape
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05/06/2006 12:47:09 AM · #4 |
Wax paper on a flashlight works beautifully for me if I can't take anything that plugs in. You just gotta know how to photoshop it to correct the color difference. :-)
Message edited by author 2006-05-06 00:47:25. |
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05/06/2006 12:59:30 AM · #5 |
There are a number of reasons to use commercial softboxes and other modifiers, rather than making your own.
1. If you want to do this professionally, you need to look the part. Shop lights, a box and white paper don't really look the part.
2. Convienence. By the time you set up your shop lights and paper, get the lighting correct, take some test pictures, re-adjust the lights and add or take off some paper... you can have already be half way through your shooting session with commercial units.
3. Repeatability. You can set your lights up and get the same results time after time after time. Hot lights are going to turn the paper brown from the heat and the lights themselves will change color over use.
4. Safty. As mentioned, hot lights are, well, hot. If they get too close to something (like dry, thin, heated paper) you could get a fire. If they fall on someone, they could get burned. If the room temp is already 75 or 80 or more degrees... adding several hot lights is going to up that by about 15 to 20 degrees or more.
5. Cold lights are safer, but they aren't as bright as hot lights or flash. You can put a number of them together to create more light, but you still have to deal with color balance issues and even the cost of good cool light bubls.
A lot of people use hot lights. I grew up with photo flood. You can get excellent results from them and if that is all you can afford or if you only need something a few times, there is nothing wrong with using hot lights.
If you need something to diffuse your lights, a light panel might be a better solution for you. I made a 6'x4' light panel out of PVC and white nylon (I used sport nylon, which I found better than ripstop nylon that many use). It had another frame that had black nylon on it to block the light from hitting my camera. The two frames were connected together to make a 6' high self standing L shape. This was great and gave me very soft and diffused lighting. I put my monolights behind it, but hot lights could go behind it just as easy. It cost me $35 to make, and it only cost that much because I bought more PVC and nylon than I needed and several more figure 8 hinges I bought in the chain link panel section of Home Depot. Had I bought just want I needed, it would have cost about $25. If you are interested in something like this, I can show you the pictures I took of it.
What ever you do though, be careful with hot lights.
Mike
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05/07/2006 07:15:41 PM · #6 |
| This helped. My paper over the spotlight thing does seem a bit unsafe. The paper did brown after just a few minutes of use. I think I will be making my own, but something more elaborate, and with the sport nylon. Thanks for the tips. |
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05/13/2006 12:03:13 AM · #7 |
Here is a picture of the light panel I made from sport nylon and pvc pipes. Being a 2 piece frame, it's free standing, so you can move it or the light to adjust the size of the light pattern on the white panel.
Mike
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05/13/2006 12:16:12 AM · #8 |
I agree mostly with mikej.
His points are right on, except the part of the plastic frame.
In the industry that I represent, and am disappointed with, we use good ole fashion lumber. 1x2x long. The same idea as the pvc, but doesn't melt. Yes, it can burn, but I don't think you will have the kilowatts, or the amperage to produce that type of light.
I'm sure the pvc works just fine for small lights, but a plastic mesh? Metal screen is better. Harder to work with, more expensive, can cut the crap out of you, but won't melt. And actually, fabric mesh is better than metal screen. just make sure there is cotton in it.
Newspaper is a good poor mans diffusion. But, can only be used once due to the reverse osmossis.
Professional grade diffusion can be donated to you if you just go to a film rental house and tell them you are a student and need scrap diffusion. 216,250,251,opal,and 1000H are the standard. There are others but these will get you going.
While you are there, you might want to get some free color jells, and color correction as well.
Just remember to tell them you are a student.
Good luck.
Ok, let the pouncing begin mikej.
Message edited by author 2006-05-13 01:18:45.
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05/13/2006 11:59:33 AM · #9 |
LOL! Why would I want to pounce? :D
If I was going to put something up close to hot lights (photofloods, halogen or other high temp light source), metal would be better than cloth, nylon or paper. No doubt about it. Even aluminum poles would be better than wood for the frame as well. I will say those that fine metal mesh will burn very easily. It actually melts and if hot enough will ignite, so it's not a great solution either.
The reason I suggested the light panel, is that it can be kept physically seperated from the light source. With hot lights, distance from anything is a good thing. :D If the light is on a stand, it can be positioned back from the panel by a foot or so, which will still light up the panel very well if the light has a 6" or bigger aluminum reflector on it. I like the 16" reflectors as that spreads the light out a bit better and also doesn't concentrate the heat so much.
While we might all have different ways to accomplishing this, I think we all agree that what ever is used, the heat that is generated has to be watched very carefully. Both for getting close to anything combustable and the saftey of any people around it.
Mike
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05/13/2006 03:23:24 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I will say those that fine metal mesh will burn very easily. It actually melts and if hot enough will ignite, so it's not a great solution either.
Mike |
Wow....in your kneck of the woods, they make cheap metal.
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05/13/2006 05:39:38 PM · #11 |
I made my light diffuser out of the same 1inch pvc that I used for my backdrop holder. I did not glue it so I can take it down. I hang a 2 dollar white sheet on it in front of the lights. My biggest complaint is the color of the light. It has a yellow tint to it. I am using the craftsman 2 500 watt lights that can be turned on separatley. So you can make mine 250 --500--750---1000 if you want. And I have 2 of these setups.
They work ok...but I am looking at getting something different to diffuse it.
Actually I really would like to get some strobes. |
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05/13/2006 06:02:10 PM · #12 |
Is there something wrong with one of these:
cheap softbox
It looks like a good deal compared to the $30 ones you build at home. True, it costs $70 more, but it looks like you get something that looks pro, has a warranty, and works possibly better. Is it too good to be true? |
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05/13/2006 06:46:20 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by shaggy35:
Is there something wrong with one of these:
Is it too good to be true? |
It is very similar to the ones we use at work. go for it.
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05/13/2006 07:36:22 PM · #14 |
does it include a stand?
doesn't seem to specify...
edit: nope
Message edited by author 2006-05-13 19:38:19.
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05/13/2006 08:55:05 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I will say those that fine metal mesh will burn very easily. It actually melts and if hot enough will ignite, so it's not a great solution either.
Mike |
Wow....in your kneck of the woods, they make cheap metal. |
It depends on what type of mesh you are talking about. For diffusion you need a fairly fine mesh screen or you are not going to diffuse all the light. The finer the mesh, the less heat it takes to melt it. A 250 watt photoflood or a 150 watt halogen light puts out a lot of heat.
Or are we thinking of two different types of mesh? I could be misunderstanding what you are referring too. In my neck of the woods, we build things so they don't rust or have moss grow on them from all the rain. We don't worry about heat so much.
Mike
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05/14/2006 02:20:46 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
[quote=American_Horse] [quote=MikeJ]
Or are we thinking of two different types of mesh? I could be misunderstanding what you are referring too. In my neck of the woods, we build things so they don't rust or have moss grow on them from all the rain. We don't worry about heat so much.
Mike |
For big things, not normal by any means, we use 'bob-a-net'.
For lighting instuments we use steel diffusion.
The grips use nets on frames.
Each one of thes come in differant grades and sizes to reduce the light by as little as a 1/4 stop, to almost 3 stops. Frankly, if you have to reduce the light by 2 stops, you need a differant light.
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05/14/2006 11:05:06 AM · #17 |
Yes, we were talking about different things. It sounds like what you are talking about is something that is out of my league and is probably one of those things that if you have to ask how much, I couldn't afford it anyway.
Thanks for the clarifacation.
Mike
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05/14/2006 11:20:21 AM · #18 |
Ya know Mike, the steel diffusion that we use is great for stopping down light. But, did you also know that the diffusion is also good for  .
MMMMMMMM.......yummy in my tummy.
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