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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Square Crop Challenge -- In Regards To A Comment
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 03/06/2006 07:05:11 PM · #1
I just wanted to bring up a point based off a comment that I got today. Please keep in mind people that lines, subjects, and content of an image may create an illusion that a crop is not square, so if you are about to knock down someone's score b/c the crop doesn't look square to you, please be sure to measure out the image. My image is 640x640, yet I have a comment that says it doesn't appear to be a square crop. Of course, the person may or may not have scored down for this, but I would hate to see people penalize other entries that are truely a square crop simply based off the illusion of the crop not "looking square" when in fact it really is.

Honestly, I bring this up to not request any changes to my score, but that everyone is voting in this challenge accurately and not erroneously penalizing people. In the end, I'm sure the scores even out, but I thought this was important for people to consider in this challenge.
 03/06/2006 07:07:13 PM · #2
Good point. And an easy way to see if it really is a square crop is to right click on the image, click on properties and then look at the dimensions. (I know this works in IE, not sure about other browsers).
 03/06/2006 07:11:09 PM · #3
Anyone who is going to bring up that they feel an image is not square without checking are likely to vote that it did not meet the challenge. Rediculous, yes, but that is just the way it is.

It would be nicer if people did not waste so much energy on such trivial things and voted on photography instead.
 03/06/2006 08:21:18 PM · #4
and lets see if people noticed that a submission isn't a square crop but a 639x640 :p
 03/09/2006 06:39:50 AM · #5
Originally posted by crayon:
and lets see if people noticed that a submission isn't a square crop but a 639x640 :p


I got the comment today, 'Isn't quite square'

Mine is 637x640 ;)

*Shakes head*

Håkon
 03/09/2006 07:25:26 AM · #6
Just reading this forum and then rechecked one that I thought was not square (and I had commented so). It was sort of funny because I was looking at all the little thumbnails and when I came to the one I thought was not square - it was obviously rectangular. So I did as you guys suggested, and sure enough I was right and it was off by more than just a few pixels. I didn't really penalize the photo for that reason, but rules are rules and it even said in these particular rules to check and make sure the sides are equal, a very easy thing to do (and then recrop if necessary).
 03/09/2006 07:35:35 AM · #7
I right-clicked a couple of images during voting on images that appeared to not be square. In my case I was just verifying the optical delusion I was having rather than trying to catch the photographer not being square.

Since I now have some free time on my hands (trapped in an airport with flight delays) I may have to go through all the square submissions and determine squaredness. Ooohhhhh if only the bar were open.

Remember, square is as square does.
 03/09/2006 07:46:54 AM · #8
I've only found 1 image that clearly doesn't meet the challenge. I think if a pic is 1 or 2 pixels out it still meets the challenge.
 03/09/2006 07:50:48 AM · #9
Originally posted by bluenova:
...I think if a pic is 1 or 2 pixels out it still meets the challenge.


hmmmmmmmmm I don't - square is square - otherwise it's not.
 03/09/2006 09:10:50 AM · #10
Problem is is that most people cannot tell the difference when it is off by a few pixels. I know I can't. LOL...So I am just voting all images as if they were unless it is painfully obvious to the contrary. The challenge states you should be as close as possible to meet challenge, so if you are close and it looks square, I just vote it as a square. I am not going around with any rulers. LOL...

Rose
 03/09/2006 09:19:40 AM · #11
Originally posted by ergates:
Mine is 637x640 ;)


No soup for you!
 03/09/2006 10:22:49 AM · #12
Yeah, I was certainly not particular unless it was painfully obvious. But the challenge rules in parentheses stated equal width & heighth. Personally, I don't care what others do, but I don't want to be disqualified so I do follow the rules. It's not like it was even difficult or anything to do a square crop!

Soup for me; giddyup!

Message edited by author 2006-03-09 10:24:08.
 03/09/2006 11:30:07 AM · #13
A square crop is *not* difficult to do. It may not be the popular thing to do, but seeing as that is the challenge, I'm checking the dimensions of each before I vote. 1, 2, 5 pixels off is not square. Equal dimensions...not hard to do.

There have been a few so far that I would've voted really high, but were off a few to several pixels, so I deducted for that.

Seriously people, square is square. It's the basis of the challenge.
 03/09/2006 12:24:12 PM · #14
It does seem sort of picky to ding someone's score for a crop that is not exactly square.

At least, until you bother to think about it.

The concept of being cropped to square wasn't hidden in the details.

Every one of the entries was cropped specifically for the challenge in post-processing. I just think of getting the dimensions correct as part of what we are attempting to learn/teach with the Square Crop challenge. If a prospective print buyer asked for something square to fit an intended place on their wall to hang your shot, wouldn't you get it exactly square for them?

Apologies to anyone who entered using a camera that shoots square images that needed no cropping to meet the Square Crop challenge.
 03/09/2006 01:02:55 PM · #15
Originally posted by coolhar:

Every one of the entries was cropped specifically for the challenge in post-processing. I just think of getting the dimensions correct as part of what we are attempting to learn/teach with the Square Crop challenge. If a prospective print buyer asked for something square to fit an intended place on their wall to hang your shot, wouldn't you get it exactly square for them?


OK, I welcome you to go through all 396 entries and check them for size so you can find mine and vote it down.

*shakes head again*

I seriously could not see a single entry which was obviously "not square". They might have been 1 or 5 pixels off, but as long as it doesn't look rectangular, I couldn't care less. Unless you have a square screen, you are going to have to look very very carefully to be able to notice an entry with such small divergence.

Håkon
 03/09/2006 01:07:43 PM · #16
Originally posted by ergates:

I seriously could not see a single entry which was obviously "not square".
Håkon


I found a few that were more than several pixels off....some were over 60 pixels off! That is nowhere near a square crop.
 03/09/2006 01:20:04 PM · #17
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by ergates:

I seriously could not see a single entry which was obviously "not square".
Håkon


I found a few that were more than several pixels off....some were over 60 pixels off! That is nowhere near a square crop.

I'm curious... How did that discovery affect your score on those images?
 03/09/2006 01:30:01 PM · #18
If I feel an image does not meet the challenge it will receive a lower vote than if it did meet the challenge.
 03/09/2006 01:31:49 PM · #19
Oh what a sad life some of us live?
 03/09/2006 01:34:08 PM · #20
i had a "doesnt look quite square to me" comment but he said he didnt knock me down for it. Mine is perfecly square but maybe it looks like its not. It does to me but then again ive been staring at it for a week :)
 03/09/2006 01:42:35 PM · #21
Originally posted by Deigan:
Oh what a sad life some of us live?

To whom are you referring?
 03/09/2006 02:08:45 PM · #22
Originally posted by woohoopepper:
Yeah, I was certainly not particular unless it was painfully obvious. But the challenge rules in parentheses stated equal width & heighth. Personally, I don't care what others do, but I don't want to be disqualified so I do follow the rules. It's not like it was even difficult or anything to do a square crop!

Soup for me; giddyup!


No where in the rules does it state that a photo has to be equal width and height. From the rules...
"File Format: JPEG (.jpg)
File Size: No larger than 150 KB (153,600 bytes).
Dimension: No dimension may be shorter than 160 pixels or longer than 640 pixels."

The part about the photo being square, is only a challenge description. Of course, a person isn't required to follow that description, but may be voted down for not meeting the challenge based upon voters personal voting habbits. However, NEVER will a photo be Disqualified for not meeting the challenge description.
Hope this helps clear that up a bit for you.
03/09/2006 02:28:36 PM · #23
Yes, it does, thank you.

No soup for me afterall, 50 lashes with a wet egg noodle too ...

BTW, I love using a square crop, and matting and framing such photos in a square frame. I like to crop it correctly; it makes the matting a whole lot easier, especially if the subject was centered (I know, I know, that's too in-the-box and boring for many).

Message edited by author 2006-03-09 14:35:46.
 03/09/2006 02:36:23 PM · #24
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
If I feel an image does not meet the challenge it will receive a lower vote than if it did meet the challenge.

I appreciate and respect what you say. But I am curious, in quantitative terms, what that actually means and more detail about why.

My purpose is to better understand how you and other voters think in order to better evaluate my own responses to images. It is possible I am wrong and need to rethink how I do things, but I need input from you and others in order to do that.

Right now I am in the camp that votes the image's photographic quality above the challenge topic. I would never lower the score on the Mona Lisa if she were entered in a challenge called "frowns" when I can conceive that Da Vinci might have created it as an ironic twist on the theme of frowning.

In my educational experience I have been in classes where students were given open ended assignments to write a paper about specific topics. The papers came back many and varied yet I do not recall a single incidence where a paper recieved a low grade because the teacher or professor said it was off-topic... never once... yet they were all very different. Maybe your experience varies from mine, but DPC is the only place I know where subjectivity plays so dramatic a role in negative evaluations.

I vote the way I do because I assume the photographer tried to create an image to meet the challenge. When they do a particularly good job, in my personal estimation, I vote the image higher... I never vote a good photograph low because I do not understand the artist's intent. I assume I am just no smart enough to understand it.

A picture has to stand on its own merits. The challenge topic ends in a week. After that nobody really gives a rip about about the challenge topic, they only care about the image itself.
 03/09/2006 03:32:19 PM · #25
Originally posted by stdavidson:
A picture has to stand on its own merits.


Actually, no. A picture doesn't have its own merits. All art exists within a context. For example, I know what a rose smells like. This affects how I feel when I see a rose. I know what a thorn feels like. This affects how I feel when I see a thorn. There are other photographs that are affected by the fact that they were taken during the Vietnam War, or were taken after a napalm attack.

Photographs have no absolute value inherent to themselves. Art is a matter of playing with the expectations of the viewer, and part of those expectations lie in the challenge.
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