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03/01/2006 08:16:34 AM · #1 |
First I want to say, this is not a rant... I'm not angry in any way... I'm just completely not understanding and I don't think I'll get any better until I do. Or maybe I won't ever get better, who knows? But lend a helping hand here, please.
This is my duotone entry (I got a brown!)
Now, I understand well enough the comments I received and I was fine with this until I looked at the placement at the end of this. Why is this next picture better?
Now granted, it is literally only 1 slot ahead of me, but is my picture that bad that this one which is blurry and small is better?
How about this one? Why is a picture of lens dust so much more interesting?
...and lastly, what I think is a close up of dog fur.
Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying any of these are bad, but why are they better? |
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03/01/2006 08:28:39 AM · #2 |
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Message edited by author 2006-03-05 19:36:30.
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03/01/2006 08:36:40 AM · #3 |
I agree with pawdrix. And I don't feel I'm one to talk but I'll tell you what I think anyway. The other pictures you posted for comparison are unique and do at least a little something for me in one way or another. Yours is muted and dull. I think the contrast/brightness increased would help it out the most. If it were advanced editing you could get rid of the junk in the bottom left corner. And the slight shadow behind him distracts me. It's a good subject idea, though!
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03/01/2006 08:46:26 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'd try not to compare things to images at the bottom and focus more on what's at the top.
I would say that the images you point to (not including the dog fur)had some artistic merit...maybe? People may have voted them higher on those merits if they did exist at all, where your image fell flat on many basic fronts without doubt or question. The usual stuff, sharpness, contrast, darkness, composition, interest and most important....why did you give it that purple tint and how did that enhance the image??? |
OK, I realize people cannot know this, but to answer your questions... This is an autistic child at his 5th birthday. While all the other children were playing games and laughing and giggling, this child was studying a piece of candy. I went with the purple tint to try and convey his deep contemplation (purple reminds me of this for some reason) and I didn't want contrast because he's so into his own world that there is no contrast for him. If this was an advanced challenge I would have gotten rid of the flash shadow and the crayon on the wall, but I couldn't for this one.
edit for spelling
Message edited by author 2006-03-01 08:54:15. |
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03/01/2006 08:53:46 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'd try not to compare things to images at the bottom and focus more on what's at the top.
I would say that the images you point to (not including the dog fur)had some artistic merit...maybe? People may have voted them higher on those merits if they did exist at all, where your image fell flat on many basic fronts without doubt or question. The usual stuff, sharpness, contrast, darkness, composition, interest and most important....why did you give it that purple tint and how did that enhance the image??? |
OK, I realize people cannot know this, but to answer your questions... This is an autistic child at his 5th birthday. While all the other children where playing games and laughing and giggling, this child was studying a piece of candy. I went with the purple tint to try and convey his deep contemplation (purple reminds me of this for some reason) and I didn't want contrast because he's so into his own world that there is no contrast for him. If this was an advanced challenge I would have gotten rid of the flash shadow and the crayon on the wall, but I couldn't for this one. |
It nice to hear the story behind a picture, but for the purpose of winning the challenge a picture needs to be able to stand on it's own 2 feet and speak for itself without the story behind it. |
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03/01/2006 09:05:53 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
First I want to say, this is not a rant... I'm not angry in any way... I'm just completely not understanding and I don't think I'll get any better until I do. Or maybe I won't ever get better, who knows? But lend a helping hand here, please.
This is my duotone entry (I got a brown!)
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Just wanted to say that you actually didn't get the brown! There were two photos lower than yours. :) |
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03/01/2006 09:45:24 AM · #7 |
i think what killed the picture was the lack of dynamic range
it is a muddy picture not sharply defined ... |
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03/01/2006 12:02:57 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'd try not to compare things to images at the bottom and focus more on what's at the top.
I would say that the images you point to (not including the dog fur)had some artistic merit...maybe? People may have voted them higher on those merits if they did exist at all, where your image fell flat on many basic fronts without doubt or question. The usual stuff, sharpness, contrast, darkness, composition, interest and most important....why did you give it that purple tint and how did that enhance the image??? |
OK, I realize people cannot know this, but to answer your questions... This is an autistic child at his 5th birthday. While all the other children were playing games and laughing and giggling, this child was studying a piece of candy. I went with the purple tint to try and convey his deep contemplation (purple reminds me of this for some reason) and I didn't want contrast because he's so into his own world that there is no contrast for him. If this was an advanced challenge I would have gotten rid of the flash shadow and the crayon on the wall, but I couldn't for this one.
edit for spelling |
Knowing the story, some context in the image may have helped. Showing the other children in the background (blurry) and this child in the foreground (sharp) contemplating the candy would convey the story you just told. |
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03/01/2006 12:21:56 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
First I want to say, this is not a rant... I'm not angry in any way... I'm just completely not understanding and I don't think I'll get any better until I do. Or maybe I won't ever get better, who knows?
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I agree that the lack of definition, the cast shadow, the murkiness of the photo all go towards hurting this photo. I actually gave you a 4...one of the higher votes mainly because I study a lot...A LOT....of photographic masters and there are some that actually have a style similar to this. Its like an "Anti-Tech" approach.
But...to do well here you need to pay attention to clarity, contrast, color, and content....I call em the C's. I don't always score high but I can be consistent enough to keep out of the basement most of the time with "The 4 C's"
Do you have a good photo editing program like Photoshop or PaintShop Pro? Even in basic editing a good photo editing program can help you out A LOT!
Good things about the photo. You kept it simple. Simple photos with a clear subject do better. Composition....you zoomed in to his face and what he was looking at...keeping extraneous content out.
Another mistake with shooting children and animals that adults make. Adults tend to shoot from their eye level or above the child or animal.
Try to get the lens of the camera even with the upper chest of a child. This eliminates shadows under the childs eye, gets into their field of view better and makes the shot more intimate. Don't be afraid of cropping even tighter..cutting off tops of heads of stuff...for people..the eyes are everything. Anytime I leave the eyes out of a person photo for any reason I know I am giving up points.
I agree with Pawdrix...I would not concentrate on the few photos around you that did a little better or worse. When you are among hundreds of photos... a few differences of placement is luck of the draw more than one photo being better than another. |
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03/01/2006 01:06:48 PM · #10 |
Just to put some of my ideas into a visual response..I took the liberty to make some adjustments to the photo to illustrate my points.
I apologize in advance for making changes to your photo..this is just to help illustrate my points about your photo...not as an end all solution or the best way to handle this shot.
All I did was a quick couple of legal actions.
-A tighter crop
-More contrast that highlights his features and plays up the dark areas to a point that it lowers the cast shadow affect
-Pay attention to the stripes in his shirt and make that point of interest in both the crop...leading to a corner and the frame with a black line and white frame.
I really blew out the white a lot to give the photo more stark appearance...And my duotone is a black and dark brown-grey
Anywho..just one apporach for some ideas |
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03/01/2006 01:08:31 PM · #11 |
kdsprog - I sympathize with you. I really thought my entry would do better than it did, but so it goes. However, I think the problem may be with the question you're asking rather than the image itself. The entire concept of the challenge process is based on democratic opinion. No one knows who you are and all they have is an image and a title on which to judge you. If one person loves your picture (and someone liked it enough to give it a 7) then clearly that is someone with whom you connected with the picture.
So if one person gives you a 10 and another a 1 you end up appearing average, but in reality you've manageed to elicit strong and diametrically opposed reactions from two people. So, in one sense, you end up achieving what any artist hopes to do - you provoked a response from your subject. It didn't have the competative and democratic effect you might have liked, but it was still a reaction.
In reading what I say next, please know that I am a red-blooded, patriotic Ammerican (hopefully this won't digress into another one of those terrible anti-France political diatribes that ignited yesterday). But, having said that, democracy doesn't always work properly. A lot of voters will give scores based on a sense of "should" or "shouldn't" win. They allow their aesthetic opinions to be shaped by the kinds of images that previously won challenges rather than inherient values within images themselves. You can see this time and time again in comments people leave that say, "I figured this would ribbon" or "Definitely a top 10 picture." People say things like that because they are trying to guess, based on past experience, what a majority will like. Everybody likes to think that their sensibilities are in tune with what images will do well in this forum. Ass a result, a sameness, a rigidity creeps into the "best" photographs because that is what everyone is trying to produce. Personally, in an environiment like this, I would far rather have the informed, critical opinion of a few people who do work I respect and admire than the acclimation of a mass of people I don't know. After all, there isn't really a lot at stake here - just little icons of colored ribbons.
I was just noting in another comment that I'm struck by the few people who's images are immediately recognizable. Joey Lawerence is on one end of the voting spectrum and senoj is on the other. Joey does great work that gets lots of ribbons and compliments. Senoj seems to come in last or nearly so in every challenge she enters but doesn't seem to really care. But both have their own style and seem to want to develop within that style rather than copy that of other people. I find that commmendable. As Byron said (to compare great things to smalll), "It is a better thing to fail in some great undertaking than live a life unchallenged."
Just my thoughts. Time to get back to work.
Message edited by author 2006-03-01 13:09:56. |
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03/01/2006 01:19:19 PM · #12 |
Unlike many voters I find reasons to vote an image a higher score than seek reasons to lower it.
Its single biggest fault is its lack of tonal range. A simple "autolevels" click makes that painfully evident. That is particularly surprising since it appears to have been taken with flash. Tonality is the heart and soul of a duotone image. That is what duotone photography is all about. Your image has absolutely no highlights or shadows whatsoever which gives it a very "dull" tonal look. There are very few places where this would "work".
The other images you identified all have a wider tonal range and is likely the reason they finished ahead of yours.
There are other things about your image to be concerned with. The overal technical quality is not very good. You were very close to the wall so distracting wall makings are plainly visible. Yours is a "snapshot" perspective. The image lacks an eye catching viewpoint, face is mostly away from the camera and the model lacks an emotion generating expression. The face is the main subject of this image yet it is small compared to the whole frame. Cropping with the top of the head just touching the top of the frame should be avoided. That acts as a distraction as well. Either crop well above the head or crop below the top. Either generally produces a more eye pleasing result.
Message edited by author 2006-03-01 13:25:22.
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03/01/2006 07:46:00 PM · #13 |
| I've been away from the computer all day, but I'd just like to take the time to thank everyone for their help with this. Like I said earlier, I wasn't angry in any way. I just didn't get it. I'd especially like to thank Hokie for the example. |
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