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01/25/2006 01:40:43 AM · #1 |
Not sure if this belongs here or in Rant. :)
Originally posted by Challenge Voting Rules:
If you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, please include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score. |
It seems to me that too many people are forgetting or ignoring this. Looking at my own and other entries at the bottom end of the Road challenge, there is a huge disparity between the number of 1/2/3 votes and the number of comments.
While a comment like "poor focus" on an image where focus choice may have been deliberate (thinking Kadi's entry here even more than mine) might not be incredibally helpful, at least it shows what the commenter was thinking when they voted and so can be appreciated for that. Without a comment, there's no way of knowing whether people think an image is a good idea executed badly, a bad idea executed badly, a bit too far out of the box/"not DPC", etc.
I'm not particularly disappointed at my low score - I was expecting not to score high with this one. I'm more disappointed that, having at least attempted to leave useful comments for entries that I felt deserved 1/2/3, so many others simply haven't bothered. Please leave feedback, otherwise how are we supposed to learn/improve?
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01/25/2006 01:56:18 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by paddles:
Not sure if this belongs here or in Rant. :)
Originally posted by Challenge Voting Rules:
If you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, please include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score. |
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I'm guilty because I did not even know that such a line existed in the Voting Rules? But I have never voted a 1,2 nor 3 so far. Maybe I'm just lucky I havent come across something that "bad" . |
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01/25/2006 02:03:43 AM · #3 |
| I just left you a rather long comment that I usually reserve for CC comments. Keep on shooting! |
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01/25/2006 02:24:09 AM · #4 |
'Tis true by my account I have 21 1's, 2's and 3's and yet I only have 6 comments and 5 of them love (ok, like) the shot. The last named the bridge.
Edit to add: My citylife entry had 40 1's, 2's and 3's and only 17 comments. Can we get this added as a statistic to track somewhere?
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 02:30:10. |
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01/25/2006 02:45:31 AM · #5 |
| Not again... If you search the forum threads, this has been discussed ad nauseum... |
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01/25/2006 03:52:34 AM · #6 |
That passage you quoted from the rules is viewed as a suggestion, not a mandatory requirement. It was put into the rules to appease chronic whiners who had a hard time accepting that their entries received some low votes. I think most here ignore the suggestion. I know I do. Maybe that sentence should be taken out the next time the rules are revised.
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01/25/2006 04:18:01 AM · #7 |
| Hmm, how about a script in place for any votes below 3 to need a mandatory comment? This at least tells the photographer WHY his photo is not liked by this voter. Also, a good way to deter the trolls who votes all 1's ? |
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01/25/2006 04:36:49 AM · #8 |
If you made it mandatory to comment then it would probably just lead to a lot of 4's in voting, or people who give 1's on purpose all the time could simply make a comment like "10" and yet still give it a 1.
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 04:37:09.
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01/25/2006 05:04:23 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by crayon:
... Also, a good way to deter the trolls who votes all 1's ? |
There are measures in place to weed out the votes of anyone who votes all 1's.
But not everyone who votes a 1 is a troll. Maybe they just think it's a poor image that dnmc. Even though some don't use all of it, the voting scale here is 1 thru 10. If you are being objective in your complaints about how people vote you should also be against undeserved votes of 10. They are not hard to find if you look for them.
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01/25/2006 05:42:16 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
That passage you quoted from the rules is viewed as a suggestion, not a mandatory requirement. ... I think most here ignore the suggestion. I know I do. Maybe that sentence should be taken out the next time the rules are revised. |
Hmmm, that's a good idea. If most people are going to ignore it, then it's pointless to raise the expectations (i.e. of receiving feedback with low scores) of new members such as me. It would also stop the apparent stream of new members reposting the same question/query/complaint.
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01/25/2006 05:57:31 AM · #11 |
| For very low scores, it would be interesting to have comments as then the person knows how to improve better for the future. |
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01/25/2006 07:47:12 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by toffle:
For very low scores, it would be interesting to have comments as then the person knows how to improve better for the future. |
Exactly my point, toffle; I wasn't complaining about my low scores, just that I would have liked (and, because of the challenge "rules", expected) more feedback than I actually got. As coolhar pointed out, most people ignore that suggestion, hence my agreement that the suggestion should be removed so it doesn't raise false expectations.
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01/25/2006 08:40:44 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Not again... If you search the forum threads, this has been discussed ad nauseum... |
Sometimes people need to be reminded of such a rule or informed of such a rule in the first place.
Personally, while I have glanced through the rules, most of what I have learned about critiquing shots I have gained by reading other's responses and looking at the shots that are simply superior to the work that I have so far created.
Honestly, I don't recall reading the requirement for comments on things voted as a 1, 2 or 3. (I don't recall how many I have handed out, but I will look back on my voting history now and comment where I can or need to.) |
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01/25/2006 09:15:21 AM · #14 |
In trying to figure out how to raise my scores I find it very useful to look thru all the entries in a challenge from top to bottom. Reading the comments on other people's images also helps. Over time you will develope a sense of what pleases the voters.
Some of my personal views are that voters here like images with crispy sharp focus. And they don't like images that are "busy". The size limits make entries pretty small so you can't cram too much into them. Take advantage of what you are allowed by using as much of the 640x640 maximum as you can. Don't waste too much of that space on fancy borders, modest ones fair better.
Often trying to be too creative and "outside the box" will get you outside of the voters favor. Learning to do images that meet the challenge well and have high technical quality will probably get you better scores than will trying to wow the voters with a dramatic concept that is not well executed.
Just my two cents, hope it helps.
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 09:16:39.
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01/25/2006 09:52:43 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
..Some of my personal views are that voters here like images with crispy sharp focus. And they don't like images that are "busy". The size limits make entries pretty small so you can't cram too much into them. Take advantage of what you are allowed by using as much of the 640x640 maximum as you can. Don't waste too much of that space on fancy borders, modest ones fair better.
Often trying to be too creative and "outside the box" will get you outside of the voters favor. Learning to do images that meet the challenge well and have high technical quality will probably get you better scores than will trying to wow the voters with a dramatic concept that is not well executed.
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Bottom line...Some photographers will be faced with a dilemma in some or all challenges. That is, is your main concern pleasing the voters or pleasing yourself.
Sometimes this "who you gonna please" thing is easy...you like the photo and it is a style of photo many voters will like.
But, sometimes you, as a photographer, lose interest in having every photo be a "crispy, saturated, simple, et, etc" rehash of what you or others may have done to win votes.
It's usually when you step outside the mainsteam voters likes or dislikes you are gonna get a lot of 3 second voters dropping low scores on you. That is the nature of this site....you will have to learn to live with it, adjust your expectations or move on I feel.
I personally don't like low votes any better than anyone else, but I like to explore new themes as I discover myself and that means low votes sometimes...C'est La Vie!
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01/25/2006 06:27:54 PM · #16 |
I left you a comment on your road entry.
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 18:28:48. |
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01/25/2006 06:35:14 PM · #17 |
| I agree with hokie...you just have to realize that some people might not like your photo...but should it ALWAYS be personal opinions? Can't people learn to vote on quality/technicality of the shot. My signs shot was busy..I admit that...but I liked it...if people would have associated the Corona sign with a bar or a fun restaraunt they would remember that most bars are busy with things. So why else did that shot do bad? I think that if there is something horribly wrong with the photo then say so at least that person will utilize the comment or blow it off...isn't this sight about learning, I want to see other captiviating photos take the ribbons, it always seems like the same old shots! |
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01/25/2006 07:53:16 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by angela_packard:
I agree with hokie...you just have to realize that some people might not like your photo...but should it ALWAYS be personal opinions? Can't people learn to vote on quality/technicality of the shot. My signs shot was busy..I admit that...but I liked it...if people would have associated the Corona sign with a bar or a fun restaraunt they would remember that most bars are busy with things. So why else did that shot do bad? I think that if there is something horribly wrong with the photo then say so at least that person will utilize the comment or blow it off...isn't this sight about learning, I want to see other captiviating photos take the ribbons, it always seems like the same old shots! |
It's much easier for people, especially newcomers, to vote than it is for them to make intelligent and helpful comments. Almost any type of comment that can be made will find someone who doesn't like it for some reason. We all wish we could get more help and learn more from each shot entered but forcing comments is not the answer. And discouraging people from voting if they can't make good comments would be counterproductive. We should encourage them to vote, and to comment when and if they feel comfortable doing so.
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01/25/2006 07:57:31 PM · #19 |
In my lowest scoring entry which was in Backlighting II (10th from the bottom) I got 109 1,2 and 3 votes and only 4 comments. I'm still waiting for those additional 105.
In case you forgot:
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01/25/2006 08:47:25 PM · #20 |
| As much as it would be good to get comments to accompany the 1, 2 and 3 votes I'd much rather have an inspired comment than a forced one. |
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01/25/2006 10:56:57 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by talmy:
In my lowest scoring entry which was in Backlighting II (10th from the bottom) I got 109 1,2 and 3 votes and only 4 comments. I'm still waiting for those additional 105.
In case you forgot:
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Ummm... You only got 3. You're counting the comment you left for yourself in there. Oops. |
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01/26/2006 12:41:03 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
It's much easier for people, especially newcomers, to vote than it is for them to make intelligent and helpful comments. Almost any type of comment that can be made will find someone who doesn't like it for some reason. We all wish we could get more help and learn more from each shot entered but forcing comments is not the answer. And discouraging people from voting if they can't make good comments would be counterproductive. We should encourage them to vote, and to comment when and if they feel comfortable doing so. |
I agree that we don't want to discourage them to comment, but this should be a learning process...and without input on why our photo is scoring low...it's more of a discouragement than anything...does that make since... |
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01/26/2006 10:31:07 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by talmy:
In my lowest scoring entry which was in Backlighting II (10th from the bottom) I got 109 1,2 and 3 votes and only 4 comments. I'm still waiting for those additional 105.
In case you forgot:
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Ummm... You only got 3. You're counting the comment you left for yourself in there. Oops. |
OK, now I'm waiting for an additional 106.
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01/26/2006 10:59:55 AM · #24 |
I think rarely do the low voters comment.
In reviewing my entries, the comments usually come
from the high scorers even though I get plenty of
1's, 2's and 3's. Just an observation. |
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01/26/2006 11:06:27 AM · #25 |
From my observations during my short time here, I have seen quite a few people state that they would no longer leave comments on pictures they scored low because people took offense to the comments.
There was at least one thread started recently, ranting about a commentor that implied that the subject and/or composition of a chellenge entry was banal. This was considered ``rude'' if my memory serves me.
Given the amount of complaining in the forums, sometimes of specific people, for what appear to be innocent comments, I would be wary of leaving comments unless it fits one of categories of what most people here seem to consider to be ``helpful'' which is usually "nice shot!" (and possibly a cropping suggestion). |
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