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01/22/2006 04:12:00 PM · #1 |
I'm looking into getting a dSLR finally and noticed that the price for a 20D dropped fairly recently to about 1200 bucks. Is the 20D worth $400 more than the Rebel XT? Other than the body, I plan on getting:
1 gig UltraII CF Card
50mm f/1.8 lens + UV Filter
Extra Battery
Backpack Case so maybe I can carry both my film and digital cameras
and possibly a zoom lens. I want to get a wide angle-semi-telephoto on a budget, so could you recomment a good lens too?
Thanks! |
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01/22/2006 04:15:59 PM · #2 |
| Oh, and for what I shoot. Pretty much whatever strikes my fancy. I've recently started getting in to long exposure photography, but I like to shoot a lot of other stuff. Check out my flickr to see what i shoot. |
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01/22/2006 04:16:31 PM · #3 |
| I recently bought a 20D and I have been extremely happy with it. I would highly recommend it. If you want wide angle lens that can zoom you might want to consider getting the 20D kit that comes with the EF-S 18-55 mm f/3.5-6. That kit can be bought at B&H for about $1290. |
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01/22/2006 04:17:06 PM · #4 |
go to Digital Photography Review
There you can navigate to the brabds of cameras and do a side by side comparison of the two cameras and their specs. It also gives very important user reviews of the cameras.
I am at the very same delimma, and I think I am actually going to go with the Rebel, as it also recently dropped in a few places to about 700-800 bucks. I did the side by side comarison and I really thought that the Digital Rebel offered nearly everything the 20 D did with very few exceptions. I have read high recommendations for the IS lenses for both cameras and B&H offers packages with both the IS lens or the standard zoom lense for both cameras.
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 16:19:16. |
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01/22/2006 04:40:00 PM · #5 |
| i owned a rebel xt, now i own a 20D. i felt there was a huge difference and i was just never satisfied with the XT. it seemed cheaply built and a little too small for me. got the 20D and fell in love. |
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01/22/2006 04:47:46 PM · #6 |
The price on the 20D is dropping because it is approaching the end of it's market life. It's expected that Canon will announce a replacement, possibly labeled "35D", at the PMA show in February. Whenever the replacement becomes available, there could possibly be further price drops on the 20D as stores clear out stock, or there might be a "dry spell" if stores run out of 20Ds prior to the new model shipping.
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01/22/2006 04:51:37 PM · #7 |
The XT Rebel is just awfully built. As my previous comrade said, it looks pretty cheap. Yes, the additional 400$ makes a big difference between the 20D and the XT. It is just a shame that the XT was so expensive at that time. To my mind, it was not worth to buy.
I would have bought the EOS 20D, but 7 months ago, it was still quite expensive. I got the D70, and I am extremely pleased with it. Not sure if I will upgrade soon.
The final word. Get the 20D if you can, you cannot be disappointed with it.
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01/22/2006 04:56:12 PM · #8 |
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01/22/2006 05:06:22 PM · #9 |
Another thing to consider between the 20D and the XT is the size-
Some people have felt the XT was too small for them to grip comfortably-
for my own purposes, this isn't really a problem. If I have a heavy lens (like the sigma 70-300) and I'm looking through the viewfinder for an extended time, then yes, my hand and wrist start to get sore. Most other times, no issue at all.
I really appreciate the smaller size and lower weight of the XT - it's that much less I have to lug around. |
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01/22/2006 05:12:50 PM · #10 |
I have the Rebel XT and I am very happy with it. I don't think that it is cheaply built, or too small. The small size is actually an advantage for me because the camera is a bit less obtrusive in public when I'm trying to blend in. I like to tuck it into my half-buttoned-up winter jacket, with just the lens barrel poking out. Also, it is considerably lighter than the 20D, so I can carry it around my neck for longer before it starts to feel like a boat anchor :)
Either way, you can't go wrong. The 20D and the Rebel XT are both great cameras.
Message edited by author 2006-01-30 17:25:16. |
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01/22/2006 05:18:35 PM · #11 |
| the rebel is great, but i have to agree with Keith, 1600 is a bit noisy specially in dark situation ( when else would you use high ISO ) .. i haven't tried the 20D but i don see anyone pointing shortcomings in specs when they compare it with the 20D, i personally don think its poorly built at all and the size i find quite convinent.. some like a more professional huge camera, and you have to try both out in your hand to see which fits you better. |
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01/22/2006 06:35:26 PM · #12 |
| Look at the used market, you can routinely get a mint 20d on FM for around $900. |
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01/22/2006 07:05:03 PM · #13 |
also recently bought the 20D... what a camera, what an improvement in my photgraphy... autofocus is out of this world!
Next year the 5D;-)
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01/22/2006 07:16:04 PM · #14 |
Technically (specs), there is very little reason to get a 20D over the 350D/Rebel XT. If money is at all an issue, and you like the Rebel XT, get the latter and save the money for another lens.
I was about to do this, and after holding both went back to my original plans to get the 20D. I figured if I were already about to invest what I was investing in the whole system, the extra money wouldn't be all that much in the long run, and I really liked the 20D.
An old roommate, who is a much more experienced photographer than me, recently picked up the 350D to complement his Elan 3n. He thought it felt much better than the 300D, which he refused to buy because of how it felt. He has no complaints, despite originally wanting the 20D.
If they both feel good to you, get the Rebel XT. |
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01/22/2006 07:20:50 PM · #15 |
If you still have more money, you may want to have a look at the Nikon D200, but then that is another story.
here is a 'first' comparison between the D200, Canon EOS 5D and the canon EOS 20D.
The EOD 5D is way too expensive for what it is.
DPreview
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 19:21:14.
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01/22/2006 07:43:33 PM · #16 |
I also have the Rebel Xt and love it, no complaints here...... as mentioned before I dont think its built cheaply either I also like/love the size of the camera. Really happy with the camera, I will eventually get a second slr so that I will have two slr bodies (a backup), gonna stay with canon but I'll wait to after the show in february to see what they will anounce. But other than that I just love the rebel xt. So many people complain about the size, but its fine I dont want a huge slr in my hands and then it begins to get heavy. The weight of the rebel xt is great never bothers me after a day of shooting and hanging around my neck.
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01/22/2006 07:57:38 PM · #17 |
I went to Best Buy (my local photo shop was closed) and held the 20D, 350D, and Nikon D50. Of the three, I liked the 20D the best as far as feel, then the D50, and last the Rebel - it was just too small, or the handle grip thing stuck out too far. So, I'll look in to my options some more.
:-) Thanks guys |
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01/22/2006 07:59:09 PM · #18 |
Well, before buying it, you may want to get the two cameras in your hands, I am sure that you will see how the quality of the body can be important. In terms of built quality, the rebel xt does not reach the desired level of acceptance. Just go to your camera shop, and make a first (but not final) choice.
see conclusion part
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01/22/2006 07:59:46 PM · #19 |
Make sure you hold both cameras before you buy. If you have bigish hands and a deep pocket, get the 20, if you money is a bit tight, and you have smaller hands, then the 350 will make you happy.
As far as the 350 being cheaply built, look at the level of complaint of those who have had the camera for a long time rather than those who chose not to buy the camera. I have owned the even more cheaply built 300 since the day the thing was on the market and have never had an issue with the "lousy build quality" through the years or the 95k activations. I wish my flash, my zooms, and for that matter my truck were as cheaply built. |
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01/22/2006 08:01:41 PM · #20 |
yes definently hold both cameras in your hand and if u can take a few shots with them then play around with the controls
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01/22/2006 10:27:05 PM · #21 |
To Ledzeppelin,
I will tend to avoid the D50, I am a Nikon user, and I just do not think that Nikon should have released a low price DSLR on the market. The lens provided with the kit is just one of the worst lenses ever built by Nikon. The connection ring is not even made of metal.
Definitely stick on the Canon EOS 20D if you can. Maybe another option would be to have a look at the Nikon D70/Nikon D70s. You may want to go to special camera shop and check if they sell second hand DSLR, if you are fortunate, you may find the D70+lens (18-70mm f/3.5-4.5, very well-built) at about 700$. That is an option of course, but might be worth to try.
A good lens is always a good choice for beginners, the 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 is definitely worth to have if you start, it covers a pretty good range of angles and is quite fast. The built quality is also very good. The xt rebel and the D50 kits are not worth to buy (built quality of the lens is not what a photographer, even beginner, would expect. Try to have a look at the built quality of the lens also, that is a point quite important to remember.
here is a link that you may want to read:
hope that will help
Discussion, what camera should I buy?
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 22:30:03.
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01/23/2006 12:15:20 AM · #22 |
I will add my support to Msieglerfr's post.
If you are on a budget, you are probably best looking at second hand cameras. The D70 is worth a look, as is the 350 and the 20D.
I am no expert but I have been doing a lot of research on which camera to buy and will probably bite the bullet in March after finding out more about new model releases from Canon and how they affect prices in the new and second hand markets. From the look of some of the rumored specs, I have pretty much decided to go for a used 20D.
I have played with each of these cameras (20D the least), and indeed many others, including Fuji S3, Nikon D2X, Konica Minolta, etc....
I actually liked the feel of the 350XT. I thought it felt tight, compact and purposeful. Nothing felt loose or like cheap plastic. It felt like it was made of dense stuff and the weighting of it also made me think that little space was wasted inside. If you feel it is too small, it is worth it to try it with the battery grip which also adds a second shutter button for portrait layout shots which for some is worth it's weight in gold. (Having used it, I don't really feel it's necessary, I like to keep my hand in one place) My finger curls very naturally to the shutter button, but I've also been shooting my S2 IS for a while as well as using my friend's 300D on occasion, so it's just what I am used to.
Comparing it directly with the 20D is probably a mistake. The 20D is clearly a different class of camera body. It is solid and well laid out. The use of the rotating dial on the back is nice for some people. I liked it. I wouldn't die using the buttons on the 350 though.
Comparing the 350 to the D50, is an entirely different story though. I cannot understand people who say the D50 feels better. The odd, unbalanced weight distribution makes it feel like everything is bunched up inside, with areas that have been enlarged simply to make it look bigger and feel chunkier. I found that the plastic felt light and cheap. The grip mount did not feel deep enough and I did not feel like I had the camera well in hand as a tool I was using. Design felt to me to be less than efficient. Of course, I only took 200 or so pictures with it on 3 different occasions, but I could not like the way this camera felt when comparing it to the D70. Add to that the fact that the kit lens for the D70 is light years ahead of the kit lens for the D50 and I'd say we are out of the race.
I had a chance to buy a D70, body only for a little more than 500 dollars US a few months back, and the only reason I didn't was that the lenses I wanted if purchased on the Nikon label would have worked out to around 600 dollars US more than if purchased in the Canon brand.
I am still having a really tough time choosing between 350XT and 20D. This is largely because I have the option where I am to buy the 350XT Japanese kit for around 800 dollars US, which includes the 18-55 USM and the 55-200. The 55-200 can be sold for around 150-170 dollars US here, so that would be really cool. I also like the 350XT package with Battery grip more than I like the 20D with battery grip and the extra toys (remotes, BG) are quite a bit more expensive and exclusive with the 20D than with the 350.
Not forgetting that I already have a F2.8 constant aperture L series lens, it just makes sense to take full advantage of that with a 20D.
Now all I have to do is find one for around 800 dollars US and I'll be one happy camper! If you could find one (like on FredMiranda) for around that, I imagine that you will also be very happy with it.
Regarding lenses, I have heard good things about the 18-125mm by Sigma and I know Slippy is going to get the 18-200mm, also by Sigma. These are the lenses that feature wide-angle with their telephoto. They are not considered excellent lenses, but decent to good. The wider the range on the lens, the lower the quality generally works out to be. Hence, the 18-125 will probably work out much better than the 18-200 and it is a very good walk-around lens. Another one to look at is the 17-85mm IS, which is probably a bit more costly, but does have that coveted wide end.
There are obviously many other options for lenses, and people who really want quality usually try to split their lenses up to 2 or 3 for the range they want to shoot. (Usually a super-wide [10-22Canon or 12-24Tokina], a normal to short telephoto [28-75 Tamron] and a telephoto [70-300 Sigma or 70-200 Canon F4.0L])
Message edited by author 2006-01-23 00:25:15. |
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01/23/2006 10:28:11 PM · #23 |
Well,
If the 20D feels best in your hands, that's probably the best one to get.
If new 20D is a bit steep, you may want to consider a used one or waiting a few months as the 20D's replacement comes to market, I'm sure there will be those selling the 20D to get the 30D or whatever it's gonna be called.
A new 20D's price may drop a bit as it becomes discountinued as well.
If you are a person that has to have the latest and the greatest, then the 30D might intice you, but I think it'll be more expensive than $1200 for a 20D.
Good luck
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01/24/2006 12:39:16 AM · #24 |
After reholding the XT, I feel it's comfortable enough that I can adapt. How does this sound for a beginning setup:
Rebel XT Body
28mm f/2.8 lens (Canon)
50mm f/1.8 lens (Canon)
105mm f/2.5 macro lens (Sigma)
UV Filters for all of them
Extra battery
Remote Control RS-60E3
Compact Flash Reader
1 gig Lexar 80x card
Canon Deluxe Backpack 200 EG
eFilm Digital SLR Standard Pop-Up Shade
(edited to add)
Total of about 1700 bucks.
I'm probably going to get my setup from B&H, because the local shop here blatantly lied to me about 8 times in 5 minutes about almost everything imaginable.
Message edited by author 2006-01-24 00:40:28. |
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01/24/2006 01:21:01 AM · #25 |
Instead of the primes, I'd suggest getting at least one zoom - the kit lens really isn't all that bad, and it gives you an 18mm wide angle at f/3.5, which isn't too bad.
The Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 is an excellent lens, comes recommended by many people. I have one, and love it so far - haven't had a reason to use either of the other lenses since I put it on.
The 50 1.8 is definitely a great lens, very sharp and the colors are great, and I love the shallow DOF it gives. But it's not so versatile, being a prime.. might not matter to you, but it's really nice to be able to zoom between wide and semi-telephoto to frame the shot if you can't move around to frame it. I'll probably save mine for walks around town in the evening, and until I get a film camera, then it'll probably go on that most of the time.
So if you get the Tamron and the kit lens, you'll have from 18mm to 75mm in zooms, and then the Sigma macro would take care of anything close, or low-light telephoto needs.
Oh, and by the way, get a circular polarizer. They are amazing in certain lighting conditions, and you'll probably want it for some macro shots where you can control reflections more.
Good luck! |
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