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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Misleading comments - false scores?
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 07/07/2003 01:19:46 PM · #1
In the 'Letter B' challenge I submitted a quirky shot which I suspected would be marked down (due to the neg treatment). However, despite the low rating I did get some positive feedback including a '9' vote - as stated in a comment. But when I look at the stats, I have no '9' votes! Either this person is getting my hopes up and then voting low - I have no '10's either- or the vote isn't registering.

Either way, not very helpful! Anyone else get this?

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=26766
 07/07/2003 01:25:02 PM · #2
It's possible that the person who voted a 9 did not vote on 20% of the entries and therefore their vote didn't count.
 07/07/2003 01:25:19 PM · #3
It's possible that a)didn't vote on enough pictures for their vote on yours to count or b)they re-evaluated later and changed their vote. I doubt they're lying for the sake of dashing your hopes.
 07/07/2003 01:30:32 PM · #4
take a look at the person who gave you the 9, they have no votes cast showing in their profile. Also, they are a registered user, and could have only commented and not voted in the B challenge. It was a member challenge.
 07/07/2003 01:32:36 PM · #5
Thanks!

Message edited by author 2003-07-07 13:33:30.
 07/07/2003 01:40:02 PM · #6
[quote=Jon Lucas]Anyone else get this?[quote]

Yes I had an even 7.0000 going then on my next fix (see previous topic Remove Update Button) a voter left a comment and said "great job 10" but the score went down to 6.965 or so. Their were no new votes except the one so I am assuming that the person liked the shot and wanted to give it a good score but the competition bug got him and he couldn’t vote it higher then his current score. Ahh well

07/07/2003 02:30:53 PM · #7
Comment them back with this kind of PHOTO!
 07/07/2003 02:31:40 PM · #8
It could also be that someone changed their vote to a lower one at about the same time, thus lowering your average even with the addition of another 10. I find it amusing that we are all fixated on our scores to the tune of 1/10,000th of a point ....
 07/07/2003 02:36:38 PM · #9
Isn’t it amazing though. My wife said just that when I dropped 2/10000ths of a point. I mumbled aww damn it, she asked and I explained, she then grabbed the mouse and clicked start-shutdown and explained how our insurance would cover 10 sessions at the local therapist..
 07/07/2003 02:53:15 PM · #10
Originally posted by Diversq:
Isn’t it amazing though. My wife said just that when I dropped 2/10000ths of a point. I mumbled aww damn it, she asked and I explained, she then grabbed the mouse and clicked start-shutdown and explained how our insurance would cover 10 sessions at the local therapist..


Remind me not to let our wive's meet. They could be dangerous together. ROFL
 07/07/2003 03:04:40 PM · #11
Originally posted by orussell:
Remind me not to let our wive's meet. They could be dangerous together. ROFL


That’s why we must ban together and make sure they never gather in packs. (Looking around to see where she is)

I am of course kidding and am a full supporter of ERA..

(ok she’s was standing right behind me I had no choice)

07/07/2003 03:15:59 PM · #12
Personally, I'd like to see the current score stuff removed completely, for both members and non-members.

This would be to prevent people from saying "well I'm only getting a 5.1, so I better not rate anybody higher than a 5", which I really do believe is an issue, even if people won't admit it.

I would propose instead that you first have to vote, and then click a button that says "I have finalized my votes". This button would only be available after you had voted on at least 20% (+ 3 additional) photos in the challenge in which you were entered. (The 3 extra photos are in case a couple of the 20% you voted on were disqualified, your votes would still count).

Once you clicked "I have finalized my votes", then you would be able to see your score for that challenge (and members could click "Update Stats"), but you would not be able to change your existing votes or vote on any unvoted pictures...
 07/07/2003 03:27:16 PM · #13
Eddy that's a great idea.
 07/07/2003 03:30:35 PM · #14
If they did implement a change like that I would bet the scores given would dip down. I bet matt would graph if for us ;-)
 07/07/2003 03:31:20 PM · #15
Originally posted by EddyG:
Personally, I'd like to see the current score stuff removed completely, for both members and non-members.

This would be to prevent people from saying "well I'm only getting a 5.1, so I better not rate anybody higher than a 5", which I really do believe is an issue, even if people won't admit it.

I would propose instead that you first have to vote, and then click a button that says "I have finalized my votes". This button would only be available after you had voted on at least 20% (+ 3 additional) photos in the challenge in which you were entered. (The 3 extra photos are in case a couple of the 20% you voted on were disqualified, your votes would still count).

Once you clicked "I have finalized my votes", then you would be able to see your score for that challenge (and members could click "Update Stats"), but you would not be able to change your existing votes or vote on any unvoted pictures...


except that people would then vote on ONLY 20% +3, so they could see their own score sooner.
 07/07/2003 03:37:34 PM · #16
So up the number of required votes to 50%.

Let's poll it: How many people vote 20%:

A). Always
B). Sometimes
C). Never or 100% vote

07/07/2003 03:45:14 PM · #17
I'm usually with option "C" except for a couple of times I was traveling or really pressed for time. I've skipped 2-3 challenges completely, and voted on 100% about 90% of the time.
 07/07/2003 03:47:36 PM · #18
Then how about this... a "non-voting penalty".

The score displayed after you click "I have finished voting" has a "randomization factor" added to it based on how many votes you cast. The randomization factor could be (100% - percentage of photos voted on).

If you vote on 20% of the photos, your displayed score is influenced by an 80% randomization factor. If you vote on 100% of the photos (all except your submission) then there is no randomization factor and you see your "actual score" as people vote. So the more photos you vote on, the more accurate the score that is displayed to you during the voting period is.

i.e, instead of "Score: 4.9743" you might see:

"Approximate score: 4.7 ± 20%"

or something along those lines, unless you voted on all the photos you could. Details aren't important, just the concept. :)

P.S. I vote on 100% of the pictures in the challenges where I have a submission.

Message edited by author 2003-07-07 15:55:28.
 07/07/2003 03:51:57 PM · #19
----If you vote on 20% of the photos, your score is influenced by an 80% randomization factor. If you vote on 100% of the photos (all except your submission) then there is no randomization factor and you see the "actual score".

So now instead of "Score: 4.9743" you might see:

"Approximate score: 4.7 ± 20%" -----

Dang dude, now my head hurts. Thanks ;-)

Message edited by author 2003-07-07 15:52:57.
 07/09/2003 02:16:55 PM · #20
LOL! Mine too!

I understand the sentiment, but don't think it would make much difference. First of all, I will admit that on one or two of my earlier challenges, when an entry that I made did significantly worse than I expected, I voted with the mindset of "if my shot only deserves an X, then I'll vote every shot that I think is equal to mine at X, and those better or worse acordingly". I don't defend it, I'll just admit that I did it. However, within the range of my voting, I stayed true to ranking every shot honestly within that range. (I think an arguement could be made in favor of a methodology like this, but that's another topic...) So while I may have nudged the scores across the board down by .001 points or so, I didn't vote photos that I thought were better than mine at a score lower than mine, just to pump my place up.

And that leads to the next issue, which is really why this wouldn't work significantly. If someone is out to vote their competition down, then they can still vote those photos that they see as the strongest entries with 1s, 2s or 3s, and voting the bad shots higher. That way it would hide their "troll votes", but would still bring the better shots down.

Anyway, the point is, someone doesn't need to see their current score to vote "immorally", for lack of a better word.
 07/09/2003 02:57:24 PM · #21
what about voting on a bad day? I've had days where I'm just pissed off about something (usually my own scores or photography in general) and I vote really harshly, and think "yeah, that photo really only worth a 4. And I'm convinced of it. I would even lay money that I won't change it..until a few days later when I cool and I look at it again and think about it some more and alter it to a 6 or something.

Just something to think about.
07/09/2003 04:16:31 PM · #22
i always vote 100% if I can, especially if I am in the competition.
 07/09/2003 04:25:31 PM · #23
Originally posted by EddyG:
Personally, I'd like to see the current score stuff removed completely, for both members and non-members.

This would be to prevent people from saying "well I'm only getting a 5.1, so I better not rate anybody higher than a 5", which I really do believe is an issue, even if people won't admit it


it does not matter. It is statistically insignificant, unless someone doesn't vote on all the pictures. You see, if someone votes on a scale from 1-5 (because of not wanting to give higher votes than 5), it will pull EVERYONE's average down.

The same goes for someone voting 10 on every single picture - it pulls everybody's average up.

The funny thing is that the only picture this person does not vote on is his or her own picture. Which means that they actually leverage their own score compared to the other scores. however, because there are usually more than 200 votes, the following happens: the vote they do on others has 0,5% ifluence.

Which means that if a picture has received straight 6s, and one person votes 1, the average is lowered by 0,025

I am sure that most people would agree that is not too significant, as a 5,975 is about as good as a 6.

interestingly enough, the more people who do this (vote on 1-5 scale), the less significant it becomes on the final result.

The only way you can actually significantly alter the result is to vote 1s on all pictures but a few, and then 10s on the remaining ones. Or perhaps the other way - vote 10s on everything and 1s on a few.

But, as you cannot vote on your own picture, it doesn't really matter.

So I just wouldn't worry about it.

Or summat.
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